(Semi) Controlled Crying - Need Reassurance

[CherriesInTheSnow]

I have a very nearly 2 year old lovely DD who is my first baby.

I have always in principle been against the idea of controlled crying, and I have no prior experience of difficult sleep, as DD has always slept through brilliantly, from only weeks old (naturally barring illnesses or bad patches of teething, but bad sleep has never affected us for longer than a few nights at a time.)

I'm pregnant with our second child, and as per most advice, we moved DD from cot to bed last month, in order to give her time to adjust to the bed before DS arrives in November. Things went as I expected them to at first in that the novelty of being able to get out of bed had her getting up at times, but she generally adjusted well and slept through again.

Now we're about 5 weeks on, and things have changed dramatically over the last couple of weeks. DD has been getting out of bed constantly, not for any comfort, but to play and chat, and no matter what we do, being kind, being firm, not engaging, whatever, she does not see the need to stop what she's doing and stay in her room.

I understand why she thinks like this (as in, she's not even 2 yet!) But she does seem aware that what she's doing is naughty and will try and sneak around before coming to see us. She is getting hugely over tired which is affecting her day, and no amount of bringing forward her bed time is helping. If anything it's worse, as if we put her to bed at 6:30 she simply treats it as a late nap and is then up til as late as 11pm sometimes. I obviously feel awful that such a small child isn't getting to sleep until 10/11pm on a regular basis now. I'm also pregnant and working full time and am exhausted. We are also getting in a cycle, now the tiredness is creeping up on everyone, of having very negative emotions around bed time and get really quite cross with DD, which is unlike us and is really upsetting.

We are still sticking rigidly to her bed time routine and time, but to no avail. Tonight however, I tied an old blanket around her door handle to keep her from being able to come out of her room. It took her 15 minutes to give up and fall asleep!!!! I have now removed the blanket, and she is definitely fast asleep, I can't believe it.

I am really struggling though with the idea of her crying herself to sleep and not being able to get out of her room - despite the unbelievable difference it has made in a single night to her sleep pattern. Does anyone who has been through this phase already have any words of wisdom? Is what I'm doing cruel or for her benefit? The baby will be here quite soon and honestly I dread the thought of not being able to get our toddler to bed before 11pm and then have a newborn waking up every 2 - 3 hours. Feel so conflicted :(

Stairgate on her bedroom door and maybe a video monitor?

I don't think "controlled crying" really works for toddlers as such (I'm not a fan at all TBH). You just need to reinforce that she stays in her room and self settles.

DS was a bit like this. After trying various things, none of which worked, we ended up staying in his room each night, until he fell asleep. Basically pinned him to the bed, or snuggled up with him.

Probably a really bad idea, but it was the only way of getting him to sleep (other than letting him scream until he was exhausted, which I admit we didn't try) and it seemed to break the cycle.

We did it for a couple of months or so (DH and I taking it in turns). He goes to bed pretty well now. The odd time he gets up and plays for a while, but usually only for half an hour or so - anything longer and we go up and put him back in bed.

Thanks for the reply :)

Yeah to me it is the crying that is bothering me, however she physically will not stay in her room, no matter what either of us do, and it is sucking the life out of me a bit. I have tried 6 nights in a row of almost silently taking her back to bed, but she is not even lasting 5 minutes, I can literally hear her getting out of bed again the moment I have closed the door, and this goes on for hours, literally hours.

I have tried sitting with her, the moment I go to leave she gets angry, or, she simply talks to me and gets out of bed and plays with her toys, climbs on her rocking horse etc. I don't really shout at all but I try to be firm and it has no impact on her, I try to be incredibly positive about her doing the things we want her to do and it has no impact on her. It is bleeding into her daytimes now too, with tiredness bogging everyone down.

However the thing is, she is 2, and I know her cries very well. These aren't sad or worried cries, they are either angry/tantrum like, or they are just attention seeking noises, so I also feel like she just doesn't understand the concept (or want to understand the concept) or her not being able to get her own way - i.e. not be able to come out and play now she has the freedom of the big bed. I also don't leave her to cry when the room is open, I will settle her and take her to bed, many many times over, until my DH finally gets her to sleep. But tonight with the door closed, I chose to ignore the tantrum she had about not being able to come out, and she just went to sleep. About 3 hours and 45 minutes earlier than she has been over the last couple of weeks. How the hell do I get around this?

Also I did consider another stair gate but due to the layout of our upstairs it would be pretty much pointless, she can see us completely and mess with the light switches in the hall so I know she will mess about just as much as if she were able to come out of her room :(

Will she sleep if she's cuddled?

Sorry Belfast cross posted with you, I have tried that too! But if I lye in bed with her, or take her into our bed (last desperate resort recently) she just talks and gets up, I can't believe the amount of willpower she has to stay awake at the moment!

Maybe more fresh air and exercise would help.

Toddlers can be such Duracell bunnies.

Is she in nursery?

Bertrand unfortunately quite the opposite, which is weird as we have been very attachment style parenting before now and I would always just cuddle her to sleep, let her fall asleep in my arms etc, but it's like it overloads her brain now, I lay in bed with her for 2 hours a few nights ago and she still wouldn't fall asleep, was just chatting and then trying to open the curtains! I have also tried to sit with her a while and then leave, making longer times between each time, but all hell breaks loose each time really and it just feels like inflicting fresh waves of upset on her, getting us nowhere :*

Serf she isn't but DH runs her rampant during the day, we live in a great area with lots of open green spaces, woods and parks, they get out every single day, all weathers. She has also, despite this, dropped her naps and we just can;t settle her down for one during the day - do you think this is having an impact?

Is it just getting her to sleep that's the problem? My DS2 can be like this but he can be cuddled to sleep now. For a while I was sitting with my back to him in the doorway to his room. Stair gates don't work as he can climb over...
Or go back to using a cot and either try again in a few months or buy a second cot for the new baby if you can afford it?

Is she old enough for story tapes? Or music?

She's two so she can understand bedtime and that she needs to stay in bed. Leaving her to cry might just make things worse, especially if she's sensitive.

We spent a LOT of time with DD at about that age telling her "it's bedtime now, go to sleep" over and over and over again every time she tried to do anything other than lie there, while we sat with her in her room.

Eventually she got the message. You have to be consistent and very stubborn though.

DH has suggested putting the cot back in her room and getting another one, we can afford to have 2 but I really, really don't want to do this.

I was thinking about story tapes/music and was actually originally going to post asking if they are worth it at this age, I remember having them when I was tiny, I think I might do this. We've got her a new soothing nightlight thing and it did help the first night she got it, so maybe that is a good shout.

Intransige I would say about 80% of the speech that comes out of me now is "It's bed time now, na-night DD" but maybe I'm just trying too many different things and not doing each one for long enough? In the roughly 2 weeks this has been happening, I suppose i have tried about 4 different methods of getting her to stay in bed..

I've got a 2.5 year old still in a cotbed and her one year old sister is in a cot. I find it easier to keep toddlers in cots until around 3 years old for this exact reason. I personally wouldn't want to hold a door shut or have a stair gate over the door. To me a cot is something they stay in until they're big enough to listen to reason.

However no I don't think you're doing anything evil or anything! It worked didn't it?! If going back to a cot is out the question (which is my advice) then just do that and stop worrying. You sound like a fab mum to me and guilt is pointless in this case!

Thank you so much Mama, I am so tired and hormonal that made me cry a bit :) I think as much as I need and value the practical advice I just need someone to tell me I'm not traumatising her or breaking our lovely bond :(

What you are doing is fine, I think, you are not really "training" her at all, just persuading her to go back to what she is well established in. It worked so quickly this evening that I would ve within another couple of nights she is back to normal. You have no idea what kind of sleeper your new baby will be. You don't want to unnecessarily have two non-sleepers, as of course a newborn won't be. As you'll already been seeing sleep deprivation is poison for small children. It isn't fair on her to drag this out if you can avoid doing so.

Aw I'm so glad I made you feel better this is one of the best things about the Internet, parents reaching out and supporting others. There's so many silly books/articles/experts telling us what to do and a million different ways to do them. No wonder we get confused!

You sound just like me actually, my 2 year old was completely 'spoilt' with tenderness and never left her to cry etc. then the baby came along and she had terrible reflux which turned out to be cmpa. After 8 gruelling months of torture with the stress of getting her well and holding her 24/7, this mamabear put her in her cot and hid in the loo

Have you heard of a book 'the rabbit who wants to go to sleep'? I think that's what it's called - it's on Amazon and people swear by it! It apparently makes toddlers sleepy with lots of key words x

Sorry meant to add that I had terrible guilt about that but you can already guess the rest! Am I a bad mum? No just not superhuman! You got this! Congratulations on the new arrival. Hope it all goes well

If you get the rabbit who wants to go to sleep, do yourself a favour and get the cd version. It is VERY dull as well as being quite poorly written and we never managed to get past about page two (thus somewhat defeating the point ). People do say good things about its effectiveness though.

Why are you so against going back to the cot? It could well quickly and easily solve all your problems.

Ds1 is 2 yes old, he is still in his cotbed as a cot. The baby is in a different cot in my room. Several people suggested putting Ds1 in a bed but tbh, it was the last thing I wanted to do. He goes to bed and to sleep really well, sleeps through without a peep. I wasn't going to mess with that with another baby on the way.

I don't think you are doing anything bad, you are simply reinforcing the idea that bedtime is bedtime not playtime. However I am not a fan of moving young toddlers out of the cot to a bed, I think I would have bought another cot.

DH has suggested putting the cot back in her room and getting another one, we can afford to have 2 but I really, really don't want to do this.

Why?

I can't understand why you are so vehemently against putting your toddler in a position (the cot) where she liked going to sleep and it was easy.

My children were all past their third birthday before they came out of cots. No hassle or difficulties whatsoever, because they were emotionally and intellectually developed enough to understand the need to stay in bed and sleep.

Why change something that was clearly working for your child? What's stopping you changing your mind and going back to the cot? It can't be because of the good of your DC, because clearly she's too young and isn't ready. Your child isn't gaining anything by this experience of being in a bed too early.

Thank you for all the supportive posts, it's really made me feel better

FATEDestiny Well it is for what I think is the good of my DD, otherwise I would not be doing it, I'm certainly not doing it for my own convenience. I feel like she is ready for a bed, I don't like when she tries to climb out of the cot and fret about her hurting herself, and I like the fact that in the mornings or if she really needs me she can reach me.

On the whole the move has been positive, but recently it has been very tough and I'm trying to get her over this phase, which I do feel is just a phase (albeit a very tiring and draining one). The fact that just one night of being firm and showing her she can't get out of her room when she pleases has made bed time so much simpler again has put things in perspective and made me feel positive again, I just need to work on a method now that I don't feel conflicted about, but all round she is a very lovely easy going little girl and I know, after reassurance from posting here, that once I've put the proper boundaries in place in the right way then things will be peaceful again - something I had lost sight of a bit in my tiredness and hormonal grumps!

And also her problem isn't with the bed, as in it's not as if she doesn't like sleeping in it and was so excited when she switched, it is more the fact that she has not effectively been taught the boundaries that come with having a bed, and is obviously thrilled at her new found freedom.

But it's my job to teach her this, it's not a reflection on her or a sign that she's not happy and comfortable in her bed, hence me posting and asking for advice on how to move forward with this, and I definitely feel more confident, so again thanks everyone

Great stuff 😊 trust your instinct and try not to worry!