Anyone who 'gently' parents (specifically people who haven't sleep trained) success stories?

[HT85]

Hi all. Just wondering anyone out there who 'gently' parents (follows babies lead and cues, everything baby led, bedshare etc) have any success stories?

I'm just wondering - I have a 6 month old. Usual story, won't go down into cot, wakes up as soon as you put her down. She's a very high needs baby, but she is also a VERY happy baby and people comment on this all the time. Husband and I are happy to bedshare and in general are just delerioisly happy with our little girl.

Question really is anyone with older children who have followed things this way, what are your success stories? When did baby go to bed alone? When did they naturally night wean? How have you mainted 'relations' with your partner?! She still stays downstairs with us till we go to bed and then obviously in the bed with us!

Looking forward to hearing some experiences.

No worries. Something I always try to remember to say when I tell people (when it comes up I don't go around showing off!) how good a sleeper DD is now is that it's nothing I did. Ok, maybe the cuddling to sleep made her happy, secure etc but when it came to sleeping on her own, that was all her. It's like one day she just decided 'get lost Mumma, I want to do it by myself'. I just copped on after a couple of naps and remembered to listen to her, rather than do what I thought i 'should' be doing. We never co-slept, I'm not against it but she just always had a crib next to me until she went in her cot in her room at 9 months but I would have if I felt like that's what was needed to get a good nights sleep!

Not rtft but weighing in cold with my own experience:

My kids are 5 and 2. I am the gentlest parent I know in real life. I don't punish, only empathise and explain. Never had to do the naughty step. Rarely raise my voice.

I am on some gentle parenting groups and my parenting in no way meets the (impossibly) high standard people are holding themselves and others to on there.

My very strong suspicion is that most "gentle parents" depart from gentle methods at some point in order to get things done.

Both my kids are in their own rooms.

The eldest was in a cot in his own bedroom from 6 months.
He used to breast feed to sleep and I would put him down asleep in the cot. He was sleeping through fairly well by then so no probs.
When we came to wean- I replaced breast feeding with cuddles and cuddled him to sleep then put him down.
The periods needed to get him to sleep gradually lengthened as he got older. I think he became aware that I was going to leave and became nervous about it and this inhibited sleep.
We started putting him down awake and insisting he stay in his room.
Sometimes he would sit forlornly by the baby gate until he fell asleep there. I king of regret doing that to him now

The youngest was in our bed until 18 months. She was also waking at night and early morning to breastfeed. We reached the point where I wanted to bring both things to an end.
I did it in stages.
First night weaning: I refused breast milk at night. Just folded my arms over my chest and said "No its sleepy time". Sometimes I rubbed her back. She was pretty sleepy so went back down easily.
Then moved her into her own "Big Girl Bed" in her own bedroom.
Big fuss made of it. Trip to Ikea to get the bed. All her toys and special things brought into the room. She was delighted to have her own space.
I breast fed to sleep in her room. Then, as with the older one, eventually dropped the breast feed.
I would say the whole process took 2 to 3 months.
At the point were I stopped feeding to sleep we had a couple of nights were there was crying at bed time. Not to the point of hysteria and not for very long.

They both go down very easily now and seem to enjoy a good nights sleep.

I'm aware that I've departed quite far from "gentle" methods with bedtimes.
But quite honestly I don't know of anyone who has successfully transitioned a child into their own space by gentle parenting alone.
People who wait for their kids to want to do it for themselves are waiting a long time and have some quite large kids in their beds.

I feel like gentle parenting methods are great for everyday when things are just rubbing along within established boundaries.
But when you want to change the boundaries or introduce new boundaries: its pretty hard to do that within gentle parameters.

A lot of gentle parents seem to get into RIE parenting at the toddler stage as this school of thought has much more to say about boundaries and managing behaviour.

Good luck

unlimited - I think you've hit the nail on the head there. For me Gentle parenting is about me doing the best job I can whilst still raising someone who will be a pleasant, respectful and well behaved child and an adult who will be able to function in society without thinking she can do whatever she pleases whenever she wants. If she's jumping on the furniture do I firmly tell her 'get your bottom sat down on the sofa young lady or mummy will be cross, it's dangerous'? (both a threat, and a threatened punishment in terms of official GP) Yep. What don't do is screech at her across the room or pull her down and not explain what's going on/why I've said it. Kiddies need boundaries, especially smalls.

I can recall on the GP pages mums struggling with 6/7 year olds still co-sleeping with newer siblings too and poor old mum and dad having literally no adult time - and them being told 'it's fine, it's normal in lots of cultures'. That may well be but for our family, it wouldn't be ok. Fine if when DD is older and she's ill or scared and she wants to come in occasionally. Not as a habit.

I don't think the way you've tackled bedtime is particularly ungentle. Not to the impossibly high standards possibly but then, who cares really? As long as you and your kids are happy.

'it's fine, it's normal in lots of cultures'

Over the last few years I've seen waves of this judgmental martyrship on the sleep board on Mumsnet. Including from the OP I hate it and am vocal in countering it when I see things like:

"hourly wake ups all night, every night. Completely normal..."
"multiple night feeds at 9 months old, all fine, all normal, to be expected..."
"still breastfeeding multiple times through the night at 18 months, you are rediculius to expect anything else"

These things are just as unhelpful as things like "leave baby to cry, it's the only way". Or "just put your baby down and leave" and completely fail to recognise the many ways to approach sleep with a no-crying or minimal-crying parenting style that do not mean being a martyr, compulsory cosleeping and multiple night feeds for extended periods.

I've worked bloody hard to establish his current good sleep habits

I know how hard you worked Notta

Both nature and nurture matter when it comes to sleep.

I also don't like reading things like: "how good a sleeper DD is now is that it's nothing I did". Because again, it perpetuates a false ideal and isn't supportive or helpful in the real world. What Sleepthief84 did was (either consciously or by fluke) matched her parenting style towards sleep to her DDs preference. That does not mean doing nothing and it's unfair in mums who end up all mixed-up with sleep specifically because they do nothing to help their child's sleep.

Parents get into a mess when their Gina Ford type baby who just wants to be left alone, is faffed and fussed over. Or when the needy baby who prefers closeness is just put down and left alone. And everything in between.

It's not about doing nothing. It's about recognising, properly recognising rather than just taking the path of least resistance, what suits baby best placing that at the centre of your parenting style.

unlimited and sleepthief im with you both 100% and you've both been really helpful. Thank you x

That's good to hear HT85.
Happy to help

FATE - I see your point with regard to the phrase 'it's nothing i did' I'll explain myself more clearly. What I mean by that is I didn't follow any 'rules' of a specific type of parenting or guidance or anything like that. I just did what I felt was right (winging it as always) and followed her lead. DD changed how she wanted to be put to bed off her own back, randomly one day. It WASNT because of anything I did to teach her. In my mind I believe it's because developmentally she was ready but of course I have no evidence - as always it's just mums gut feeling.

That won't be helpful to mums who are currently struggling with problem sleepers - I don't know the answer to all problem sleepers if I did I'd be a rich woman. It may be helpful to mums who are in a similar situation as I was (with a baby who would not sleep anywhere but my arms without raising merry hell) to know that there can be light at the end of the tunnel without resorting to leaving their baby to scream or using other 'techniques' which they and baby may find difficult and distressing.

They are all so different - as are we. I have friends who are still breastfeeding on demand, including through the night with their co-sleepers when our babies are all around 16 months. Would that suit me? Not on your life - that sort of living puts me firstly back in mind of the tiny baby days, I feel like we've moved past that. Doesn't mean I consider them martyrs, or better parents than anyone else. You don't get a medal at the end of it all no matter how you get them to bed/feed etc. It works for them, so fair enough.

I agree

The defensiveness and I'm right, your way is wrong helps no-one. Everyone is trying their best in the situation they find themself. What works for one child in one family won't work for another child in another family. That doesn't make either of then wrong. Or right. Just different.

I should have added "with massive input and help from fate to my post. I have worked hard at it, but have had loads of great advice from fate.

I understand the 'its nothing I did' sentiment, my second child is totally different to the first, it's nothing I did, he's just different. I prefer" it's nothing I did" to the often implied "it's my superior parenting that I have a child that just goes to sleep"

I prefer "it's nothing I did" to the often implied "it's my superior parenting that I have a child that just goes to sleep"

Yeah, I get that. Neither are great or very helpful / supportive to other mums though.

They are the two ends of the scale.
it's nothing I did = a baby's sleep is 100% down to the child
it's my superior parenting = a baby's sleep is 100% down to parenting
It's in fact in the middle, it is both. Parenting does affect how a child sleeps and also some babies sleep easier than others.

Someone upthread said how emotive baby sleep is. It creates a lot of (understandable) defensiveness because mums have this tendancy to feel guilty at any inferrance they are not doing things "right", which can lead to some assuming all other ways of doing it are "wrong". This is especially true of the attachment/gentle parenting movement.

I posted earlier saying that I put my son to sleep and leave him and he sleeps but he only started sleeping through the night after a year old.

I did do sleep training (kind of, he would cry and I left him to cry for short amounts of time) as I worked full time from when he was 6months. I never coslept and used to feed to sleep, prior to that used to have to push him around in a pram as a newborn.

I'm not being judgemental, just surprised how you all manage when the babies are now toddlers and still need you to lie with them, rub their back etc. Seems like SOME parents have chosen to have these very extravagant bedtime routines and I don't understand why?

Mine is almost 3 and has just in the last couple of months stopped being cuddled to sleep. He will now ask to go in his cot after cuddles and stories and will either fall asleep after a few minutes or ask to get out again for more stories before trying again. He probably sleeps through half of the time, and wakes once (usually between 5 and 6) the other half. We bring him into our bed and he falls back to sleep. I had started to wonder if he'd ever stop needing cuddling to sleep but he just did it on his own.

Thanks bluechameleon, I guess they're all so different aren't they :)

When mine were really tiny they slept in bed w me.

Then when they were beyond the really tiny phase they were in the cot next to our bed.

Moved cot to own room at abt 6 mths but they didn't sleep through then, I would get up, feed and resettle. How often would vary. Sometimes once or twice. Other times they'd be in a phase of poor sleep. DD had a phase at 14 mths or so of just being wide awake in the middle of the night for ages. I would try to resettle but if no joy then it was musical beds, child would come in with me and dp would depart for the sofa. At least then we all got some sleep.

Night weaned by abt 15/16 mths. DD not interested by then anyway, but DS I made a decision to stop BFing at 15 mths and at 16 mths to stop bottles in the night. I did a lot of cuddling and shhh patting etc.

Toddler beds at about 2, by this point they were sometimes sleeping through and if they woke we had a little routine for settling back to sleep. So generally sleep not too bad.

I would say they only became really really easy beyond say 3.5 (in the sense of being happy to cheerfully say goodnight and roll over and go off to sleep, and then sleep through till say 7). With both of them it wasn't until they dropped a nap.

We never left them to cry at night and we never dropped at childcare and ran leaving them howling.

I don't know whether it any of that has bearing on how they are now but they are quietly confident kids who I am told know how to behave appropriately at school and that school is not home. They are also kind and gentle especially with smaller children.

I guess the point I was trying t make upthread was that if a baby is conditioned to expect someone with them till they drop to sleep then that is what they will always expect. If the house norm is that you go to bed/cot and then fall asleep on your own, then that is what they will expect. I found that this made for a better life balance and an opportunity for children to realise from the start that there is give and take - that others have needs. I don't think that any of my children suffered by this - they had loads of love and cuddles and fun and, yes, gentle respectful parenting, but they knew that their needs were not the only ones in the household.

Of course there were times when they did not settle and needed a bit of encouragement, but the principle still held good - you say goodnight and you go to sleep on your own.

They are thoughtful considerate adults of whom I am deeply proud.

I am creeping towards saying that parenthood now seems to be so hedged round with guilt - parents are required to be super-patient, to give and give, and not to tolerate any hint of negativity to enter their children's lives - but that is not real life - it is a fantasy world in which bad things do not happen and the child has to be protected from any hint of hurt. Give and take is a huge part of RL, and learning that can start very young.

I know I will now get dropped on from a great height, but I do really think that a lot of parental stress and anguish could be saved if the doctrine of "good enough is good enough" were followed, if parental "failures" were treated with a sense of lightness and of learning from experience. Sometimes my heart bleeds at some of the threads on here where parents are beating themselves up about their "performance" and trying to be super-human.

@Blossom wow that is a really lovely post - good enough is indeed good enough. Wasn't it Winnicott who wrote about the 'good enough' mother(?) and she knew a thing or two about that!
As someone with a toddler and expecting a newborn any day now, that mantra is the way to go for me... for the preservation of my sanity :)

We don't have a much older baby than OP, DD is 9 months old but for us gentle parenting works (if this is the label used for being responsive to baby's cues, demand feeding, bedsharing, 'breast sleeping' etc.). DD was what some people would have called 'high needs': refusing to be put down, always wanting to be held by someone, wanting to be breastfed to sleep, waking up every 30'-45' when she was in the co-sleeper etc. I think she is just a baby, and (most) babies are like that.

We had her in a co-sleeper for the first 4 months, and then started properly bedsharing. Although my back hurts sometimes because of the position I have to feed her, she must be helping herself to the boob when we are both half asleep. We usually sleep between around 11 pm to 8 am. Even if it's low quality sleep, we must be getting some sleep because I don't feel that tired during the day. DP says the same.

She wakes up with a smile every morning, she doesn't seem to cry at all anymore (unless you take away a toy she wants or something like that ), and she seems very happy in general. She has also become much more independent recently, and will now happily play independently on the floor for long stretches. For me this is success.

I think this approach just works so much better for our family as it's so much easier! Even if we wanted to, imposing routines would have required so much energy, and we are too lazy. Luckily, we never bought a cot, we just got rid of our bed (it was broken anyway) and now just have a mattress on the floor, and bought an adult bed for her (future) room.

Blossom that IS a lovely post, and I wouldn't 'drop on' you :) I completely see where you're coming from. But like PP my daughter is what would be considered 'high needs', it was just never possible to do those things such as leave her to it. I really tried and tried and drove myself mad in the early days, I then just accepted this is her, this is her personality and she needs me to be completely responsive to her right now. She won't forever.

X

And like you FiftyShades, she is a really very happy baby who barely cries! Yes it's hard sometimes to be constantly reactive but she is a joy to be around x

HT85 It can be really hard, which is why it's so important to have support and not expect that one of the parents (usually the mum!) will do everything. I'm very lucky to have DP often doing more than his fair share and DM helping out loads since we both returned to work but I know that not all women have this privilege. In traditional societies, families had much wider support networks, which made being responsive to baby's needs much easier.

Absolutely FiftyShades. Daddy is very hands on which is great - she does need me for all sleep times but daddy is brilliant with everything else 👍🏻 I know someone who's partner is in the navy and she had a very high needs baby, he's now a year, I cannot imagine how she has coped!

Nottalotta my lg is almost 8 months but is exactly the same as you describe - day time naps are when we are out and at home never in the cot mainly in my arms if at all often go for a walk so she can sleep. She co slept until 12 weeks and then in a side car cot. Now She sleeps in her cot in our room at night but is still up for feeding 3-4 times a night sometimes will come in the bed from 5 or 6 - quick to settle after night feeds. Not quick to settle initially though! Ht85 I too want to sleep train and wean at her pace no stress to her or us so following this thread.