Hand hold please - sleep training 9 month old dd

[FeelLikeTheresNoGoingBackNow]

Please can someone offer a handhold / reassurance. I'm a regular MNer but have NC.

I have a 9 month old dd. The last two / three months have been awful sleepwise - I've been at the edge of my sanity it felt. She's always been bf to sleep. Won't take a dummy. But started to be waking constantly and constantly needed the boob to resettle. Bad nights, very overtired and naps were getting worse.

Started to sleep train 4 nights ago. Using PU/PD with patting and shushing. Never leaving the room. Trying to be gentle.

Night one she fell asleep on Dh shoulder - which wasn't our intention. The last two nights she's fallen asleep in her cot. Which is our aim. So unsure if this is night 3 or 4 iykwim.

She's screaming blue murder up there. Doesn't sound distressed she sounds absolutely fucking livid!

I've stayed away since we started training. I say goodnight and Dh takes over.

My boobs feel flat - she's been fed. So she's not hungry / ill / teething etc. But I know the only way to calm her is to bf her and she'll pass out on my boob - which is what we're trying to stop! Or, she'll get more boob - which she doesn't need.

I feel helpless. My baby is screaming. But if I go to her what's been the point of the last few nights?! Just to reiterate, she's not by herself my Dh is with her and comforting her (or at least trying to).

Please can someone reassure me we're doing the right thing. Please, please be gentle with me 😢sleep training has been a huge step for us. It needs to be done - I know that as I can't go on how it was.

Please be gentle with me.

Pick up and put down can be very overstimulating for some babies (including mine) and can drag out the agony.
Shushing and patting can work better.
It's really really hard but it will get easier and better to keep going at this point.
Hand hold

Oh gosh you have my sympathies. I imagine that some will disagree with sleep training, however I believe that you need to find what works for you all as a family. Have you seen any improvement over the last few days? It's awful listening to them cry isn't it? But you need your sanity and mental health too. Does she sleep through once asleep?

Thanks Nan - I know we can't go back. But fuck it's hard!

Smar - there's been an improvement in length of night sleep and better daytime naps.

Sleep training needed to be done - for her as much as anything, as she couldn't settle herself.

Anyway, my Dh is down. She's asleep. She fell asleep in her bed. I still feel wretched 😢

I wouldn't do PUPD after 6 months or so as it's too stimulating.
I also wouldn't stay in the room with her as it's exciting and frustrating for her.
Instead I would get your husband to wait outside her door and pop in and out every few mins doing some very boring shh pat when he's in there.

You will get there. Did she fall asleep quicker tonight than the previous nights? Be kind to each other (you and DH) - I'm sure you're both finding it tough!

I've done it with all of mine- they are in no way damaged because of it and are great sleepers as children.

Getting through the first 3 nights is horrendous. But then it improves.

They need long batches of sleep for health and development- remember that when you're at your weakest- you are helping her and if you get some solid sleep, you can cope with whatever the day throws at you.

You can do it.

Lapin oh, ok. Do you think we should change our approach? If so, don't we need to be consistent?

Tonight has been the worst night by far for her screaming. No tears - just livid screaming.

I'm finding this so hard. Other nights not to bad. Tonight, I'm in tears.

yoga thank you - I needed to hear that.

My Sil did CIO 10 years ago. My niece is absolutely fine.

Yes you need to be 100% consistent.
You do a bedtime routine
You put her to bed and say night night love you
And LEAVE THE ROOM straight away.
Wait outside the door and only go in after a couple mins solid crying
Shhh pat and then leave the room again
Repeat until asleep

Thanks Lapin. I mean, don't we need to be consistent with what we've started? Aren't we starting from scratch tomorrow if we change our approach now?

The crying is getting worse so I think a different approach might be needed to make it easier on all of you.
If you change but then are consistent it will be ok.
What is not ok is continuously chopping and changing so agree a plan with your husband and stick to it like glue

I agree with Lapin.

I did what you're doing after 9.5 months of multiple wakes per night and boob ultimately & eventually failing to work.

Initially stayed in the room with DD and like yours she was LIVID. Took ages to get to sleep, tears, everything. It was wretched.

So after 3 or 4 nights I did the bedtime routine, cuddles, into the cot, "nighty night, I love you" and I left. I just felt my being there was making her worse.

She cried for 3 mins and I went back in and cuddled and kissed her, then put her back down, same words, and left again. And after 2 minutes more so just stopped and fell asleep!

Next night 2 mins of crying and then sleep.

Then a few more similar nights, sometimes stepping backwards a little.

So it was CC basically which I had sworn I'd never do

But now she goes into cot and falls asleep herself with a little smile on her face.

I couldn't flipping believe it. But it worked.

I next worked on dropping her first night feed and just cuddled her back to sleep instead and now she's finally starting to sleep through (sometimes) at 11 months.

Just my two cents worth. Best of luck with whatever you do!

Pupd didn't work for us as it overexcited them. We found pat shush was much more effective. It feels like hell when you are doing it but you will all feel the benefit especially your little one when their sleep improves.

Oh and I felt like a total shit sitting outside the door listening to her cry.

But I genuinely was at the end of my tether and so was she really. Even when I was trying to feed/cuddle/rock her to sleep she was fighting it and screaming and just getting so overtired.

Sometimes you have to make the least worst decision out of the shitty available options!

Firstly don't let anyone make you feel bad for sleep training, it as the BEST thing we have done as parents for our dd. She was a terrible sleeper and so unhappy because of it, after the training (at 7 months) she just got happier and happier by the day and now at a year she is the funniest most wonderful little monkey who sleeps all night long!
Secondly, as others have said PUPD may be too stimulating and will potentially prolong the process. We had a book called the the happy sleeper which used a process called 'the sleep wave' which I can't recommend enough (got it out of the library)
Thirdly, look up extinction burst. It happens around the 4th night where the baby will test her new boundaries.
Lastly, she probably was crying because she was livid. She's angry because you're not helping her
get to sleep in the way she is used to, but she knows someone is with her so she's not alone and scared, just annoyed! She will get used to the new way soon.
Be brave, you can do it. Good luck

thanks Lapin, Red and Bobby I appreciate your input. I think we'll change approach going forward.

I don't regret starting the training, but tonight especially has been tough!

Thanks all for being so kind.

I'm now going to eat ice cream and watch tele. I'm exhausted!

red - I could have written your 20:50 post word for word

It gets better, honest. Had exactly the same thing and we were all broken from months of lack of sleep longer than 1.5 hours at at time. Three nights of sleep training and it was like having a different baby (not that I would ever ever want a different baby, cause he's perfect. But you know what I mean!)

Felt awful at the time (and I was crying for much of it) but on the other side now I'm sure we did the best thing possible. He's so much happier now he gets proper sleep.

Holding your hand. I did it too at around 9months.

Went back in after 5, then 10 then 15minites ... felt like vomiting each time, sat on the bottom stair with my head in my hands... but it worked! After a few nights, naps and bedtime were a pleasure ever since.

If a baby falls asleep with an aid of any sort, they'll wake (and they do many times a night) and look for it. If they go asleep by themselves then they can settle again.

OP we are doing the same with DD who is 9.5 months. Happy to stand in solidarity with you if you like? We're doing controlled crying, PUPD was too stimulating and never worked for DS. It's tough and almost physically painful to listen to. I know that when we went through the pain barrier with DS (when he was much older) he was so much chirpier for better sleep.

This weekend I'm taking the squids to my parents so dh can do some pointless diy. I'm going to need handholding while I do the training on my own and cope with their judging all weekend...

mytea - thanks fir your post. I'll look into the book :-)

I was reminding myself tonight that they test boundaries on 3/4 night. I kept telling myself she was testing us. And I knew I couldn't back down.

How well does she eat in the day?
Any medical issues (allergies, reflux etc)?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/1394888-What-worked-for-us-Hope-this-helps

The gentle route

We tried sleep training or whatever you call it and I think I just made ds angrier. Every time we went in, he just screamed even louder. We gave up after 2 hours of constant screaming and no sleep.
I bottle fed so not sure if this would work for bf, but when you feed her, even if she falls asleep on you, when you put her back in her cot make sure she's sleepy but no asleep, so when she's nearly nodding of, you might need to slightly wake her. Put some soothing music on and sit in the hallway staring at the moniter . Then gently each night put her down when she slightly more awake until she basically learns to disassociate the boob from sleep. Like I say we did this for ds and we pop him in his cot and he will fall asleep happily on his own.