Cry it out :(

[Neverknowing]

I recently posted about my 8 month old DDs sleep and decided I would continue to breastfeed to sleep and co sleep with her as we were both happy.
I just found out I need an operation soon though and so need DD to learn to sleep through the night ASAP as she will just be with DP at night and he obviously cannot breastfeed her (and must be at work by 7am). I have spoken to other mums at baby group who have recommended CIO, which honestly I've always been very against but needs must and all. I'm extremely sad about it tonight, it's the first night we're doing it and I'm about to put her down.
Anyways sorry for the waffle (can you tell I'm feeling horribly guilty) can anyone tell me if this worked for them and if it did how long it took?!

Just one other passing thought that I always ponder. I remember at about 4 being left screaming and raging after being put to bed for something. I remember the hope and assumption that mum would come and then the rage at her not coming. And I remember the calmness then if realising I was on my own and i needed to decide what my next move was. That was the moment I learned to cope independently. And then over the years, all those other boundaries I hit against with my parents also taught me to be resilient and think for myself, not peg my emotions and needs on 'mum coming'. I had fantastic and loving parents. They were strict though about things that were for my own good. And both my sister and I are very independent, happy, confident and well loved (by partners and family) adults. I think those boundaries and refusal to placitate me as a child were some of the most important moments in building my resilience. They refused to let me control them and put my emotions solely in their hands. I am trying to give my kids that gift also and bedtime boundaries are the start of that for me.

I might be wrong but I always remember deciding enough was enough and to stop crying. And this weird elation that 'I don't bloody need them anyway!' (They were always there and mum has since told me she sat at the bottom of the stair so upset as I raged).

That's great Neverknowing, if it's an easy lesson that all the better for everyone but no child can rule a house😉

I had to go into hospital when I was still breastfeeding. DH managed with DS (who was upset). I then carried on breastfeeding and co-sleeping when out of hospital.

Personally, I would just carry on feeding and co-sleeping and let DH sort her when you go into hospital. I know you don't want her to be upset but she's upset now.
She won't understand why she is calling for you and you are not picking her up and feeding her.
At least she'd have DH with her and cuddling her when you were away. (You can get bed rails to stop her falling off the bed-just another option for you).

Go with your instinct, if it doesn't feel right to leave her upset on her own then I wouldn't do it.

@littletwofeet I won't be able to cosleep afterwards unfortunately (as much as I love cuddling her) which is another reason she must be sleep trained now. Selfishly I don't really want to have to deal with her bad sleep habits when I'm back either, I've heard good results from this and want to give it a try. She's asleep now and really didn't cry too much, she sort of whinged and then gave up and went to sleep. I honestly though it was going to be horrible.
She fell asleep up with her face holding her up on the side of the crib though so I had to move her!!

*thought not though

Just to keep everyone updated, she has just woken up. She did a little bit of a moany cry and I stroked her face and told her to go back to sleep and then walked out of the room. She then 'cried' (wasn't really a real cry) for about one minute and she is quiet and asleep now.
This is the sort of time she would usually wake up if I put her to bed at 7 by the way so not unusual in any way.

That's great OP. 8 months is a good time to do this. People let bad sleeping habits go on till babies are much bigger and more determined and it can be much harder to fix at 14months. I always found CIO at 8-9mths pretty painless, short and effective.

Check out the blog posts on here
childsleepscience.wordpress.com/2014/05/01/important-sleep-basics-all-parents-pediatricians-and-caregivers-should-know/
I really wish I had discovered this website before I paid a sleep consultant, there is so much amazing information on the blog posts. There is also a webinar on there which goes through the most common reasons sleep training fail and how to make it successful. I recommend watching it and then making sure you are really consistent once you do start training. I can imagine it being the hardest thing and wanting to go in and soothe but take the time to make a plan and then stick to it so you send the same message to your baby.

(I have sleep trained but my daughter was younger so we used pick up/ put down)

Thank you so much everyone, I honestly thought I'd be flamed for being the worlds worst mother! I'm going to keep updating so that anyone watching knows how long it takes me and if it works etc.
Thank you so much @cantlivewithoutcoffee I'll read those, hopefully will help me not to make mistakes. I really don't want to put us all through this and then it not work anyway!
I put her down for a nap at nine. I changed her nappy and fed her until she was drowsy then put her down. She cried for the first three check ins (2,3,5 mins) and she's still crying now I'm waiting for ten mins to go and check on her. It's not a really bad cry though she's just moany really, she's definitely slowing down as well.

Hang in there! All mine now go straight into cot, smile at me and I walk out, 1min max. Sometimes if they aren't tired enough they matter away to themselves for 30mins but are happy and understand that bedtime is bedtime. It's bliss.

Amazing @YoureNotASausage !! Did you do nap times as well or do you think doing nap times as well is overkill?!

Quick update for anyone still following.
I put DD to bed at seven after her bedtime routine, she cried for about 45 mins and then fell asleep. When I went in after the last check up she was fast asleep sitting up so I lay her down and she woke up a bit and did a little cry and then fell asleep.

It also took her an hour to fall asleep at nap time earlier.

fast asleep sitting up

You're not proactively teaching her the skills she needs to go to sleep herself (lie down, relax, close eyes, still your body, be calm). You are just teaching her to scream until exhausted and then give up.

She will indeed very quickly learn that crying in her cot doesn't get her your attention. Maybe that will mean its worked?
I still cannot see any proactive teaching her the skill set she needs to learn in order to sleep independantly.

Cosleeping and feeding to sleep to being left alone to cry with no independent comfort. Blimey - that's a humongous change.

I need to do something similar with my 8 month old DS so am watching with interest. At the minute he goes down no problem, awake and self settles with his dummy and comforter. However he wakes every 2/3 hours at nohjt and either needs feeding back to sleep or he joins us in or bed and nods back off. Need to get him self settling during the night but not sure how!

Can't your DH cosleep with her when you're in hospital? How long do you think you'll be away for?

I agree with FATE, sorry, she's gone from having you come to her every time she cries and be given breastfeed for comfort for her whole life and now she's just left in her cot crying for 45 minutes-that's a long time.

She won't understand and will be desperately hoping you will comfort her and then give up.

Sorry, I know that's not what you want to hear and I know that lots of people say CC works but like FATE says, that's a huge change for a little baby.

There is evidence that sleep training (various methods) does work in the short term but not in the long term.
None of the studies that have been done have found an effect lasting 6 months or more after the sleep training methods was originally used, and found to 'improve' babies sleep. This means that the initial improvement, or 'benefit' of using the method disappeared, and outcomes were the same for the group of babies who had been 'sleep trained' as for those in the control group who had not
www.isisonline.org.uk/how_babies_sleep/sleep_training/research_evidence/

Taken from ISIS
A recent study ( Middlemiss et al ) demonstrated that mothers and babies undergoing a controlled-crying intervention started out with matching, synchronous, hormonal stress responses (babies cried at bed-time, their stress hormone levels increased, and their mothers' stress hormone levels also increased). After three days, babies had ceased to cry at night, and mothers' stress hormone levels dropped, however babies levels - despite the fact they were no longer crying - remained high. This suggests that the babies behaviour had adapted to being alone for sleep, but that their physiology had not. The response of the babies in this study lends support to the theory that babies who undergo sleep training via extinction may be learning to 'give up' rather than to 'settle' -- outwardly the two behaviours appear the same, but inwardly the babies physiology is very different. As well as being physically separated from their mothers, the sleep trained babies were no longer in physical synchrony with their mothers as their mutual stress response link (maintained by infant crying) had been broken.

I know it's a very emotive subject and one which people have strong opinions on. I do understand you're in a difficult and stressful situation of having to go into hospital.

I appreciate what everyone is trying to say but honestly there's not a lot else we can do. I already feel awful. My DP would be able to cosleep with her but she will need to be in a cot when I am home and we only have a one bed flat at the moment.
Obviously, I'm already finding this extremely hard. I'm not trying to hurt my baby

Your DD can still be in a cot though without having to do CC, there are lots of other options.

You've got to do what you feel best, it's just your posts suggest that this isn't something you feel fully comfortable with and was just trying to let you know there are alternatives.

Never, I have the same with naptimes. I pop them (now just the littlest) into the cot, hand dummy and walk out. One crutch I did use and still use is the bottle. She is 18mths but I still hand her a small bottle of warm milk before leaving. She drinks it and I think it gives her something to do and look forward to while relaxes her. Her communication is getting very good though so I'll probably stop it once I can clearly say 'no bottle, your a big girl, night night'.

Sounds like you had a bad one today but give her a little chance to learn and figure this new routine out. My three are very happy going to bed (4, 2 and 1) and simply never kick up norms (if they do I know they are sick) but I did have to stop pandering at a certain point and give them a routine for it.

Would she take and hold a bottle herself? It could be a good cue and comfort for her. Works great with mine. Not brilliant for teeth I'm sure but few things are perfect.

Just to be clear, dummy at nap time and bottle at bedtime is what I do.

there's not a lot else we can do

There are lots of gentler options.

When is your operation? Trying to make a hungry baby go to sleep is the first of many reasons why CC is not right in your situation OP.

Baby has got used to having calories through the night. There is no reason why baby couldn't have those calories through the day, but her current body rhythms are such that she is used to getting calories in the night. Lots of calories. Therefore whether these feeds are needed or not is largely irrelevant - baby's body is going to be giving her hunger signs, because that's what she used to.

So first you need to night wean. This means not considering sleep first, but considering not feeding in the night as your priority. Give that a while and adjust daytime milk and diet so that baby a body rhythms in relation to calories adjusts.

Then teach independant comfort... but not until already night weaned.

I tried to stay away from this thread because I knew reading it would make me angry. It has

I'm not inherently against CC in the right circumstances. But goodness. I cannot think of a more cruel thing to do to a pre-verbal baby than to go straight from complete attachment parenting this cliff-edge suddenly. It's absolutely unnecessary.

we only have a one bed flat at the moment

What are your current arrangement?

Double bed with a cot next to the bed? Cot not being used and DH sleeping elsewhere (sofa?) - is that right?

Have you thought about taking one side off the cot and wedging up to the side of the bed?

In a 1-bed flat, you realistically are going to be unable to ignore baby's cries. Baby will be right there in your bedroom, you can't just close the door on her.

It sounds to me like what you need to do is night wean. Possibly wean from breastfeeding to bottle fully. This will give you more personal space. But baby is always going to be room sharing. Well, until you move. So I can't see what you hope to gain from leaving baby to cry unattended.

Your sleeping arrangements are such that strong attachment parenting is pretty much unavoidable. Like it or not, baby is going to be sleeping close by to you. So why the battle?

It's difficult to tell you exactly all the reasons this is the only way but I can assure you we've tried everything. I already feel terrible about it.
DD slept through last night until six and then I brought her into our bed for a cuddle but she was still Exhausted so I fed her to sleep (I know) and she slept until half ten?! I'm worried this isn't great for her honestly she was so tired and that should have meant she had 14 hours sleep?! So either it was shitty sleep for her or she's not napping and that's bad for her 😓 this is very hard.

I have to have this operation so I've had to pull out of buying a house which is why we only live in a one bed place ATM. It's all very stressful within itself.