HELP! 11mo ds2 doesn't go to bed at night. HV wants me to try controlled crying but I won't. I'm exhausted and need advice!

[punkpuffin]

Ds2 is 11 months he slept well when he was tiny but gradually for worse. He's up now playing and laughing. He doesn't go to bed until between 9-11. He naps fine (Although he will only nap in a cushion nest on the sofa not in his cot). It normally takes 2-3 bottles of formula to get him to sleep and then it's a nightmare putting him in the cot without him waking. HV told me he should only have one bottle and then go to bed and do controlled crying. I tried once and he made himself sick. I can't do it but I'm going crazy as ds1 wakes at 6 everyday. Dh works evenings so I have to do both dcs bed time. Ds1 goes to bed at 7 so I think ds2 is over tired by the time I try to settle him. I don't know what to do. ( I also have pnd which isn't helped by lack of sleep).

The amount of milk he has in his stomach when he's crying is probably what's making him sick. It might work better on one bottle, not three.

I read it as the OP did do it on one bottle.

He had one bottle and then tried it and he was sick. The others were to calm him down and then he fed himself to sleep.

I'm also not into CIO. My first was a terrible sleeper due to reflux but I still couldn't do it. I think I'd write tonight off and obviously give your inconsiderate uncle a bollocking. What kind of moron rings a door bell past kids bedtime?? Anyway
I agree with others about the bottles, I've BF but my 2 have gone through phases of wanting to feed to sleep. We switched and my she did bedtime instead they have a strict routine same thing every night, dinner-bath-pjs teeth-stories-sing lullaby and into cot. She's so tired after all that she's okay with sleep.
Have you ruled out a medical cause? Reflux or example?
Also I hope you manage to get some rest/space in the day, look after yourself

Silly autocorrect!! That should say we switched and DH did bedtime, it worked because DD wasn't expecting milk from him all the time and it was a change. Now they have their own routine

Sorry I misread your OP, your DH isn't available In the evenings. Is your Dc1 old enough to be kept quiet with an iPad while you put Ds2 down earlier?

OP my DD was the same at this age she refused a dummy and only wanted multiple bottles for comfort, in the the end I changed all the teats back to stage 1 and it would take her a lot longer to drink her milk but she would fall asleep as she fed - I no this is not a long term solution but it helped save my sanity

Controlled crying does not work for every baby

Actually often it doesn't work because people don't do it consistently. When done correctly and consistently it's rare it doesn't work.

Best thing we ever did. Was suicidal from lack of sleep.

It is absolutely your choice but sleep training does work (I did just shut door and let them scream rather than controlled crying). It was sleep or strangle them and we were too soft and indulgent with our first - she is still worst sleeper. Not sure how you can refuse advice and still complain, to be honest. Alternatively go whole Mother Earth thing and stick them in bed with you until they choose to leave your bed - it's a good form of contraception too!

It's a long afternoon, have you tried another short power nap? Could you walk the long way to pick up dc1 in the hope he has another short nap, say 20 minutes?

At that age my dd was going to bed at 6pm, I really think getting her into bed early helped (although she would wake at 5am). I use to play a white noise app (sea/river sounds) and sit next to her until she went to sleep.

I'm also not into CIO

Not one person has even suggested CIO.

Do you mean he has 3 bottles of formula? That's too much. Offer water instead if he insists.

Controlled crying does work if it's done properly. You need nerves of steel but it works.

Or you can just carry on as you are, or try co sleeping or persevere with the bedtime.

I would start with trying to get him to nap in his cot first though. You're half way there then.

OP when you say you've tried controlled crying. Can you tell us exactly how you did it?

Yes CIO and controlled crying are completely different. When we did controlled crying with my ds the longest we ever left him for was 10 minutes.

I would disagree with gamer on one point though - sort night sleep first, then day sleep.

We hired a sleep consultant and even she said day sleep was a totally different ball game - night sleep is the one to crack first.

He sounds very tired.
As an example day for our 11 months old
Awake 6am - 7oz milk
7:30 weetabix or porridge
9:30 - nap 1.5 hours ish
11:30 lunch

1pm 5oz-7oz milk
1:30-3 nap
4pm teatime.
6:30pm bedtime
Asleep by 7pm.

Mine is 10.5 months old and he is:

Awake 7am (ish)
Nap 9-10
Nap 1-3.30
Bed 6.30/7

Mine were all on one nap by 11/12 months so I think the nap is probably fine. But I agree with getting a comfy mattress or duvet on the floor by the cot, one bottle and then put in cot awake or only drowsy and gently pat or reassure from the floor when he inevitably wakes. No further bottles of milk - maybe a sippy cup of water.

You will need to make up the calories in the day time so make snacks more filling - toast and PN butter/ cake/muffins/cheese and do proper puds/ full fat yoghurt etc and milk after naps

We decided not to try controlled crying with DD. She's now 4, and still not the best sleeper. At 11 mo, we had a cot with a side off in her room tied onto a single bed so one of us could lie next to her while she had a bottle and went to sleep. Some nights it took two bottles. It meant spending a fair bit of time with her, but once she was asleep, we could leave. She lay in her cot and held her own bottle while one of us lay on the bed. Could that work for you?

I never found sleep training worked, but I'm too soft to do it consistently. I could never bear to hear them cry. We just let it sort itself out, which eventually it did.

Is it worth temporarily offering more milk in the day? Maybe he is hungry and needs lots before sleeping. Space two of the bottles during the day and if you only offer one at night you'll know he's had the same amount of food/milk overall in the day

Crumbs- i am asking for advice as I don't like making him sick just to get him to sleep. Also I'm not complaining I'm asking for other people's experiences of what works so my son gets a good night's sleep and so do I.

Gamer- I tried cc for two nights. Going in every 2 mins to check him and settle him. He screamed for around 3 hours both times and then he was sick and i had to change him and i ended up having to feed him to calm him down. I can't put him through that.

Tonight i sat next to his cot and he sobbed but didn't get as bad as he did before. He fell asleep within an hour. I have him some sips of water instead of milk. So I'll see how he goes over the next few nights.

Sounsd painful but a bit of an improvement? Did he sleep well overnight or up a lot. Don't forget to feed him up today! I also swear by a banana right before bed (DS2 has a banana and milk literally minutes before he gets put in his cot.

Op I think where you went wrong with cc is going in too often. It should be done with gradually increasing intervals. My DS screamed if I went in every 2 minutes, he did much better at increasing intervals of 5, 10 and 15 mins.

So you go 5 mins, go in - but don't pick up and don't spend too long in there, simply a quick pat and reassuring words, lie back down and out you go.

Repeat at 10 mins. Then 15 mins and every 15 til they're asleep.

Older babies have got a LOT more staying power so it's harder but I promise you it does work.

Yes, no picking up or eye contact. Just lie them down and give soothing noises. Every 2 minutes won't work especially if you're talking to them and picking them up.

It sounds however you've found your own happy medium. To crack it you need to pick one and be consistent, no giving up. Giving up and trying something else just prolongs the agony. Good luck.

Last night was the first time he's ever slept 8-7.30 and he woke up happy, just say up in his cot and cooed until I picked him up. Hopefully tonight will be less painful!

Sounds encouraging, good luck