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Sleep

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Original poster

Is self settling definitely the holy grail?

61 replies

PenelopeChipShop · 26/10/2016 07:07

My DD is 6 months, nearly 7 months. She's breastfed and has never slept through, not that I'd expect that at this age but sleep is currently awful. Waking every 1-2 hours all night, longest stretch of sleep is no longer than 2 or possibly 2.5 hours and that would be the beginning of the night, so early evening.

I bf her to sleep as I can't keep her awake by about 6.30 and have got her older brother (4) to put to bed too. I know I should be teaching her to self settle etc but how to do that with a 4yo there and no adult? DH never back early.

Also how do you know when they can sleep all night without feeding?!

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StrawberryQuik · 27/10/2016 12:01

I think it's up to you tootsiepops, my DS (6m) is fed/cuddled to sleep and it's generally quick and with no tears, I feed then put him down in the cot for a bit but I always need to feed/cuddle to get him to drift off in the end. I doubt I'll still be doing it when he's at school.

Self settling isn't particularly 'a thing' in Italy where I'm from, the general expectation is that babies get rocked/fed/cuddled to sleep.

Kokosjumping · 27/10/2016 12:10

My 7mo self settles for bed and naps but still won't settle at night wakings without milk.

Squaffle · 27/10/2016 12:50

So glad to see this thread, I've been agonising over this! Self settling definitely feels like it's the holy grail so it's really interesting to see that it's not and that self-settling doesn't necessarily lead to perfect sleep all round.

Currently really battling with DD's sleep: she is almost 7 months and is cuddled to sleep (because it works: all the advice I got when she was a newborn was "do whatever works" and then the same people suddenly started saying I had made a rod for my own back. Grrrr.). She used to sleep through with a dream feed and a few dummy-reinsertions, but now is waking up to 5 times a night. Sometimes crying, sometimes up to 2 hours of chatting. I have no idea what to do!

Hand holds and hugs to all of you, thank goodness for coffee and Mumsnet!

OohNoDooEy · 27/10/2016 12:54

kokos when that is the case, it can often help to move the milk to much earlier in the routine. So if now it is bath, pjs, gro bag, teeth, dark room, milk and bed if you move it to

Pjs
Milk
Teeth - if they have any!
Gro Bag
Story
Bed

It just removes the association of feeding to sleep completely. Some babies don't drop the feeds on their own - there are threads on here about 2.5 year olds having nighttime milk feeds. When the time is right, you can night wean them.

OohNoDooEy · 27/10/2016 12:56

Squaffle what is the daytime routine like? What is your bedtime routine?

Squaffle · 27/10/2016 13:10

Daytime routine is great (I think?): she has 3 naps, sleeps really well and has just started doing the long lunchtime nap so I have shortened her other naps accordingly so that she's still having the same amount of sleep (about 3 hours a day max and her last nap is always over by 5pm at the latest).

Bedtime routine is bath at 6pm, pjs, books, bottle at about 6:30pm and then into sleeping bag with her dummy and cuddles until she's asleep. She's usually asleep in her cot by 7-7:10pm.

Thinking about dropping the teatime power nap... might that work? She's then be awake from 2:30pm (ish) until bedtime.

Trinpy · 27/10/2016 13:16

Penelope my Dh leaves most of the night wakings to me but I get most of the lie ins the next day while he gets up with the dcs so it evens out. Yesterday evening it all got a bit much though - I tried to get to bed early but ds2 started up with his whinging noises, getting louder and louder, nothing would quieten him down. So I went downstairs and demanded that Dh come to bed immediately because I couldn't do it on my own anymore. Last night was 1000x better because I wasn't doing it all myself but now we're both exhausted! We averaged 3 hours between feeds last night which was great but all the noise kept waking up ds1 so he's tired today too.

I think OohNoDooEy's advice about having the milk feed earlier makes a lot of sense.

My Dh wants to introduce a bottle of formula at bedtime...

Kokosjumping · 27/10/2016 13:21

ooh we've already done that, his bedtime routine is bottle, bath, story, song.

Kokosjumping · 27/10/2016 13:22

He only wakes once so I'm not complaining!!

OohNoDooEy · 27/10/2016 13:23

It is around 7 months that they start to think about dropping to 2 naps - they are all different after all. You can either go for 2-3-4 whereby you have a nap 2 hours after they wake, nap for 90 minutes and then 3 hours after they wake for 90 minutes then 4 hours til bed or you can go for equal awake times.

The daytime routine does sound good so I would just try moving the bottle a bit earlier in the order of things.

The waking and chatting/playing is definitely a thing. They have so many regressions at this age and where possible, I'd try to ignore them. If they want to practise all their new found skiills, they don't need you to be out of bed watching them! I can remember seeing DS on all fours, saying dadadadada for a few hours. I went back to bed and left him to it! He wasn't going anywhere!

OohNoDooEy · 27/10/2016 13:28

kokos that really isn't that bad. Is it always the same time? Or variable? When it is always bang on 4am, it can be a bit of a habit that you can try and break with wake to sleep but only if you feel it necessary. They'll probably drop it on their own soon enough if you're happy to continue. Night weaning is the alternative if you're not.

trinpy how old is your baby? 3 hourly feeding is quite a lot. The bedtime bottle of formula can really help you get some rest if you're happy to do it. We did it and DC1 would then sleep a few hours so I could get from 8/9pm - 3am as a block. It was a bit of a lifesaver.

Kokosjumping · 27/10/2016 13:41

It varies ooh and if he takes his full bedtime bottle (which he doesn't always) he might go right through til 4/5, whereas if he only has a couple of ounces he'll wake at midnight, so I'm pretty sure it's genuine hunger. When we sleep trained him he was waking every hour so it is a huge improvement!

Squaffle · 27/10/2016 13:52

Thank you so much! It's really reassuring to know there's no obvious clanging errors in our routine! I think I will drop the last nap providing she has a good lunchtime nap and move the bedtime routine forward by 15-20 minutes. As for the nighttime chats, I will ignore her unless she cries and will just have to make peace with the fact that I can't sleep through it! (We are in a 1 bed flat.)

Like a previous poster said, she won't need cuddling to sleep forever and one day she will sleep through! It's just hard to remember that when you're hearing a chorus of "LALALALALALA" at 4am!

Trinpy · 27/10/2016 15:04

OohNo he's just turned 7 months. At the moment he has 4 feeds a day and 3 at night. Which does seem quite a lot considering he's well established on solids now. The first 2 night feeds last night he seemed really hungry though. Dh has 3 days off next week so we might have to give formula a try then. His daytime sleep is really good so it's very annoying.

OohNoDooEy · 27/10/2016 15:36

I wouldn't really switch the feeds to formula. If you want to do the formula as a dream feed so you can get some sleep, that makes sense though.

I would start out using tonight as night one and record the feeds and then tackle one by one. Push each feed back by 30 minutes per night until the intake is transferred to the daytime.

Trinpy · 27/10/2016 16:00

30 mins might be a bit ambitious, I cracked after 10 mins last night because I was so scared he would wake up ds1! I'll try my best though . Thanks for the advice.

Youcantscaremeihavechildren · 27/10/2016 21:21

Oh some of this is really hard to read, I'm currently sitting downstairs sobbing as my dh tries to settle our ds, 19 months. He's screaming upstairs and has been since 7.30.. Weve been trying to do gradual withdrawal for a week now, as bedtimes involved rocking or feeding to sleep then trying to lay him down and creep away, sometimes for over an hour. He wakes hourly some nights, 2 hourly most. Awake from about 4am most mornings, feeding on amd off, dozing whilst I dont and lie there worrying about getting up for work. I've got a bad back and I just can't do it anymore..on the other hand, the progress I've made this week is that although he's going to sleep without boob, he's still only going to sleep with one of us stroking his back, a lot of crying and some screaming and if I'm doing it, a hand down my top...
I really am hoping that getting him to self settle is the key as I feel pretty awful putting him through this right now if it isn't going to make a difference. He has been going back to sleep without boob, and although he woke 4 times, he went back to sleep within 5 mins each time...at 6 months though I'd just be gentle with self settling, and even if something works at that age I'd say it can change so much, especially once separation anxiety sets in at 9 months...

Tumtitum · 27/10/2016 21:44

That's tough youcant I hope he settles soon! You are so right about things changing quickly. I remember posting on here once about reducing night feeds for DD and within days she was teething and we were back on about a gezillion night feeds!

Youcantscaremeihavechildren · 27/10/2016 22:55

Thanks tum he finally did after about 30 mins..breaks my heart hearing him like that but I just know we need to do something. We're exhausted. Good luck with yours, they certainly keep us on our toes!

Jules249 · 28/10/2016 10:57

Can anyone help re the mirena coil. I've been told it's lost in situ and I'm waiting for a scan. I'm in agony and bleeding a lot. I'm 46 and it's a long time since I've had children. Should I wait another week for the scan or is it worth a trip to a&e?

maroda16 · 28/10/2016 11:07

My ds is almost 7 months too, breastfed for a while and moved to formula, he's also in solids since 18 weeks, I always feed him to sleep, and he was waking once or twice a night until we put him in a grobag to sleep. Now he falls asleep between 7/9 at night and wakes anytime from 6.30-9.30 in the morning. We alway fed him to sleep and still do

maroda16 · 28/10/2016 11:08

Oh and I e never left him to self settle, we always pick him up when he cries!!

Kokosjumping · 28/10/2016 13:43

jules you need to start a new thread, did you post on this one by mistake?

Craigie · 28/10/2016 15:36

Get help. You've created the problem by breastfeeding to sleep and your baby can only get back to sleep now if breastfed. Mine was the same. 6 months old waking every 45 minutes. End of my rope. He was on solids by then (11 years ago) so perfectly capable of sleeping through. We employed a parent coach. Hands down the best money we have ever spent on anything EVER. Was sleeping through within days.

Stripeyblanket · 28/10/2016 21:11

There is a sleep regression around 8 months and as for self settling, you don't have to teach it, your baby will do that when they are ready. I still BF my 13 month old and if I'm home (I work shifts - inc night shifts) I'll feed him before bed. Sometimes he falls asleep and sometimes he doesn't anymore. Most of the time he is happy to be put in his cot awake and this has happened over time. If you can, just be patient. I know it's not easy if you are doing it alone and with a 4 y/o also.

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