2 month old, doesn't sleep throughout day or night

[Kriii]

Hi everyone,

I'm at a loss about my 2 months old daughter, and would appreciate whatever words of wisdom you can share.

Ever since she's been put on formula on week 3, due to her excessive feeding which my wife couldn't cope with, we've had the following problems:

• She barely naps throughout the day. She is always alert, always wants attention, and if I dare try to lay her on me to sleep she gives me a good talking to.

• She eats very little, very often. She never finishes a bottle, often times eating a single ounce, then keeps asking for more gradually until the bottle grows too cold for her liking. Then it's a new one (about every 2 hours), and the cycle continues.

• She does not go to at night. Last night we've tried putting her to bed at 7pm. She laid in bed next to me staring at the ceiling for 2 hours with a dummy. Only fell asleep after feeding her again, but...

• She does not stay asleep at night. It's 5am and this is the fifth time she's woken up tonight. Often times I can hear her moving in bed when we thought she was sleeping.

I have no doubt these problems only started after putting her on formula. We've tried several, even comfort ones, to no avail. The health visitor, I'm sorry to say, is being less than useless (it's free, but we're still not getting our money's worth!), and although she hasn't been much to the GP, my personal experience of them also does not inspire confidence.

Anyway, she's started crying again, so I'm going to finish up and thank anyone in advance if they can share some tips!

Sorry I can't help, but for you. It must be incredibly hard. I hope it sorts itself out for you soon

Much appreciated :)

Your wife may already be feeling as if she 'failed' at breastfeeding, please don't make a big deal about how you feel these problems are caused by the formula.

Some babies need more convincing to sleep than others - rocking, cuddling, reassuring them as they settle. Unfortunately it's rarely the case that they will just lie down and go to sleep.

At 2months I believe their awake time is approx 1.5 hrs, perhaps getting into a nap routine would help?

As for feeding, is your DD gaining weight and producing plenty of wet nappies? If so then she's probably just taking what she needs. If not then you probably need to seek medical advice.

I'm currently hearing at my non sleeping breast fed 5mo so you have my sympathy.

My daughter had a lot of problems with wind and reflux and so was a "snacker" like yours. She is 7 months old now and has gone off milk a lot since being weaned. Does your baby seem in pain after feeding? Grisly, arching back etc?

Lots of night time waking is normal for a baby this age, if I recall correctly their sleep cycles can be very short. My daughter was also a nap resister, even now she only takes 2 x 20 minutes a day, compared to my son who would have 2 x 2 hours. Some babies just seem to need less sleep. It's very hard and my only suggestion would be to see if a family member could take her for a few hours so you can catch up on sleep.

I agree with Thursday, please don't make a big deal about how this is all about putting her on formula. Your wife may already be feeling guilty about stopping breastfeeding and this won't help!

Some babies are just better sleepers than others I'm afraid. Hope your DD's sleep improves soon.

You really can't know this is about formula. You say your wife struggled with her excessive feeding so presumably she's always been a constant snacker. Sleep wise you just can't compare 3 weeks and 8. 3 weeks they're pretty dopey in general and may sleep almost all the time. 8 weeks they're becoming much more alert and sleep needs more work.

Is she gaining weight? Is she settled or is she unhappy? V snacky feeding may be an issue or may be completely normal for her.

Nap wise are you catching her sleep cues early enough? I agree about 1 1/2 awake max at that age. How are you getting her to nap? Have you tried a sling? They can need lots of help both getting to sleep and staying that way.

Nighttime. Is she ready for bed at 7? That sounds quite early for 8 weeks to me. My 11 week old is still on a 10pm bedtime- that's when his night naturally begins. Lots of wakes ups is pretty normal at that age, especially if she's not taking a big feed in to stock her up. Are you sure she's always awake? You mention her moving around- mine is incredibly fidgety in his sleep from around 5. I find he's much more settled on his tummy (obviously not advised by SIDS guidelines).

Fair enough about the formula, although I don't really bring it up with her anymore. I'm just looking at it from a possible intolerance point of view.

She is gaining weight and is otherwise healthy. She even smiles after that one nap a day she does manage to sleep through. The problem is that she resists being rocked/cuddled to sleep - if I lie down in bed with her on my chest (the best method that used to work), she aggressively rolls off me. If I even mention the word "sleep", she starts crying (I'm becoming convinced she recognizes the word at this stage). If I try to rock her to sleep, she keeps calm... Just doesn't fall asleep.

Thanks everyone for the comments so far!

Giraffe, we try to maintain a routine of feeding/nappy change/some activity/sleep throughout the day. It works maybe once or twice in the morning, and then at 2-3pm, she wakes up and stays that way until night time. Some of the things we try daily include feeding, taking her to the bedroom to vr away from the noise, rocking, laying her face down on me (which she started aggressively resisting), dummy, and white noise. We haven't tried a sling yet, I'll give it a shot.

She isn't ready for bed at 7, but we take her out of the living room to be in a darker, quieter environment. She udually falls asleep between 9 and 10pm, and stays that way until 2 when she wakes up for a feed. Afterwards, she would wake up from gas quite often, every 15-30 minutes, lasting two hours after her feed, despite being burped.

Usually she'd make a final awakening at 5am, at which point I give up any notion of further sleep and let/force her to sleep on my chest until 7.

When DS2 was that age I had to wear him for a lot of his naps- just not practical to spend X amount of time getting him to sleep every hour and a half!

The pushchair worked and still does, especially if I get the timing just right.
I often could just sling him over my shoulder and walk around with him for a bit.

It's only now at 5mo that DH & I are learning what is right for DS2. Nap times are no longer a battle. Night times are a different story though!

Oh krii I just read your last post.
That night time sounds totally normal. In fact a 9/10-2 stretch is something I can only dream of!

It doesn't help the tiredness I know, but please be reassured that what you are describing is not abnormal for either FF or BF baby.

Also, if she doesn't fall asleep until 9 I personally wouldn't take her up until 8.30 - why torture yourself?

The baby sounds fine - but you and your wife could use an extra pair of hands so you get some rest. Do you have family or means to pay for support? If you can afford a night nanny for a couple of nights a week it's worth it.

Sleeping from 9-2 is pretty good. Why do you take her out of the living room at 7?

Why don't you try going with the flow and chilling a bit? What does your wife think and why are you at home all day?

An 8 week old will not have much routine or nap to order.

You don't mention going out. Is the baby getting enough fresh air? Instead of trying to get her to sleep, have you tried playing with her, reading to her, just having her about while you do stuff that needs doing.

Hope your wife is ok. Is there a particular reason why she isn't taking the lead here? It would be nice if she hopped on the thread and gave her point of view.

Dd2 is also 8 weeks. It doesn't help but what you describe is totally normal! Agree that 1 1/2 ish hours is about the right awake time. I find that quite often slinging her over my shoulder and walking round doing jobs she'll drop off much easier than if I actively try to get her to sleep. I also find getting the first nap of the day right is key.

With night I find co-sleeping great, I always said I never would but I get so much more sleep having accepted they just want to be close to you.

Dd1 always needed to be rocked or walked to sleep, so that's always worth a try.

It does get easier!

2 months as others have said, is a time when more entertainment is needed. Is the baby getting out in the fresh air daily?

My problem lies more in those two time periods between 3-9 (6 hours awake) and 2-5 (3 hours almost constantly waking up).

My wife does take her outside most days. If she's lucky, she falls asleep - but more often she tells me she spent half the walk crying.

I'm at home because I often work from home. Some days I'm out the whole day, but I can stay in maybe 3 work days a week.

I'll take your advice and try putting her to sleep later in the day. I guess I was trying to make sure she is asleep by 9, and was afraid if I didn't force-stop her day she could keep going forever.

I suggested my wife should ask you guys, and now that I've gone ahead and done it, I'm sure she'll chime in. I think she believes the baby is just difficult, whereas my opinion is that we're doing something wrong, so I want to compare how others are doing it.

3 and 9 pm? and 2-5am? Or the other way round?

What happens when your wife tries to settle her? My babies always settled better for me than dh....

You're not doing anything wrong. Babies are just like this, some more than others.

I suggest trying a sling - mine at that age needed to be in a sling and moving (danced/walked outside) to nap.

Sounds normal to me. Babies don't sleep much. Some sleep less than others.

Correct, Bam. 3-9pm she stays awake in one go, with no naps, despite yawning the whole time.
2-5am she wakes up to eat, then wakes up every 15-30 minutes from gas. Each time we need to comfort her back to sleep again.

Believeitornot, I think we are both able settle her when she gets upset, but it requires constant attention. This means that from 3pm every day, one of us will be playing with her and the other doing the housework until we go to bed, with no breaks in between.

Let the housework go where possible! Your rest and sanity matter more than ironing. If one of you has the baby, the other one can nap/relax for a while.

You're not doing anything gets wrong neither is she difficult - she's just a baby, and some babies are like that! I remember being amazed with dd1 as I thought you just laid them down and they went to sleep-haha.

Once they get overtired they are so much harder to settle. Maybe for a couple of days try after a shorter period to get to sleep.

I seem to remember it get easier around 3-4 months as they tend to fall into their own routine. So hang in there.

Have you tried baby massage? It can be really good for helping them relax which in turn help with sleep (hopefully) X

You really have to take the baby's lead, rather than thinking about what should happen at a particular time. They create their on schedule based on their feeding cycle.

At 8 weeks their gut is still small so intake won''t be massive and therefore sleep cycles are short. I found with an alert baby that the routine went like this: wake up, feed, change nappy, some sort of interaction like singing, pop in baby bouncer for play, rest of feed, back in bouncer or nod off in arms.

Like your baby, ours didn't sleep for very long. I just got out and about. The crying half way through the walk is familiar as hunger - I couldn't get very far without another feed, especially in the morning. I learnt not to fight it: just stop and feed. Then carry on. go by their schedule.

Mine was gassy too and we found infacol very useful. You pop some drops in and it somehow makes the little bubbles of wind in baby's tummy join together and become one bigger fart/burp. You can buy it over the counter and use it for each bottle.

Stupid question, but are you giving the correct amount of formula? You might want to try a formula for hungry babies so she gets more carbs per mouthful, although I've heard some babies don't like it so much so you'd have to try it and see.

I agree that you need to stop thinking about a 7 o clock bedtime and personally I think spending a couple of hours in a quiet environment might be a waste of time. We just kept baby with us downstairs until we all went up to bed. We had a cot next to the bed.

Regarding night time feeding, babies naturally feed a lot in night because that's when mum produces a hormone that tells her how much breastmilk to make. I know you're not breast feeding, but baby will still have this natural instinct. The night feeds start to reduce at 3/4 months - basically when the baby's gut is bigger and can hold more milk. The gassiness reduces at this time too.

So all in all, just go with the flow, follow baby's lead, get a bouncer, take them to baby club in the morning, get a kip midday when they have a bigger sleep, get some infacol and use it regularly, throw out any schedule and follow baby's cues, tell your wife and yourself you are doing amamzingly well and baby will start to sleep in bigger, more regular chunks when their belly is a bit bigger.