2 month old, doesn't sleep throughout day or night

[Kriii]

Hi everyone,

I'm at a loss about my 2 months old daughter, and would appreciate whatever words of wisdom you can share.

Ever since she's been put on formula on week 3, due to her excessive feeding which my wife couldn't cope with, we've had the following problems:

• She barely naps throughout the day. She is always alert, always wants attention, and if I dare try to lay her on me to sleep she gives me a good talking to.

• She eats very little, very often. She never finishes a bottle, often times eating a single ounce, then keeps asking for more gradually until the bottle grows too cold for her liking. Then it's a new one (about every 2 hours), and the cycle continues.

• She does not go to at night. Last night we've tried putting her to bed at 7pm. She laid in bed next to me staring at the ceiling for 2 hours with a dummy. Only fell asleep after feeding her again, but...

• She does not stay asleep at night. It's 5am and this is the fifth time she's woken up tonight. Often times I can hear her moving in bed when we thought she was sleeping.

I have no doubt these problems only started after putting her on formula. We've tried several, even comfort ones, to no avail. The health visitor, I'm sorry to say, is being less than useless (it's free, but we're still not getting our money's worth!), and although she hasn't been much to the GP, my personal experience of them also does not inspire confidence.

Anyway, she's started crying again, so I'm going to finish up and thank anyone in advance if they can share some tips!

x post

You don't need to play with her and keep her occupied all the time if you get a bouncer...a bouncing chair like this one www.smythstoys.com/uk/en-gb/baby/c-631/baby-rockers-bouncers/p-9290/disney-baby-minnie-mouse-precious-petals-bouncer/?gclid=CjwKEAjwoPG8BRCSi5uu6d6N5WcSJABHzD8F85Ix2O66a7R4W7bylrzcL8BruDSE8XF-0FlpGuj9YhoCQDnw_wcB

, or pop her under the baby gym with the toys low enough that she can bash them (at this age bashing is random and rather more accidental). She won't want to stay like this for very long as her attention span is short. I'd say 10 mins probably max.

I also think in your case a sling might be good - or a baby carrier - so she can go in there. Again, she won't want to stay in it for hours - half an hour to 45 mins prob max, but it would break up the day a bit more.

The deal with a very young baby is that they are with you wherever you go and need attention more or less all the time in one way or another. Even when they're sleeping they make grunty noises and you sleep with one eye open! But it does gradually change as they develop their gut and the brain goes through changes. Sometimes they regress too (durng growth spurts) and you think you've nailed a routine with them and they suddenly start waking at odd times again.

It's hard when it's your first and they aren't a sleeper but it's totally natural. You might want to read this as it explains baby's sleep patterns and why they are the way they are. also gives a few tips.

www.familias-madeira.com/Elizabeth.Pantley.The.No.Cry.Sleep.Solution-1.pdf

It's nice to know I'm not just being a useless dad ;)

We have tried infacol, which didn't seem to have an effect. Tried Gripe Water, which is impossible to administer at night (with a teaspoon), and will be trying dentinox next.

We make 4oz (130ml) bottles, because she never finishes them. At some point they go cold and she won't eat any more, so we make a new one. We have this cycle of feeding/nappy/feeding/play/restart.

With no nearby family and no extra cash for help, it does feel like an endless chore. We've both been stripping things from our personal routines, and I've been sacrificing work time to help out.

Here's hoping she grows a big gut!

Fair enough about the formula, although I don't really bring it up with her anymore

If you don't really bring it up any more it means you do still bring it up...

Your baby is just a baby. They are 8 weeks old. This is what babies, and 2, and some 3 year olds do.

As for part 2 of your post, tiptoe, that bouncer actually looks like a good idea! She does get bored very quickly in the baby gym - she prefers that I bash things rather than do it herself.

I'm going to see if I can get a sling and a similar bouncer for tomorrow. I guess if I can't make her sleep, I can at least distract her so that she doesn't want attention every waking moment :)

PotteringAlong, I don't blame my wife for not breastfeeding. It was a mutual decision that was done with the best intentions, and probably lead to a better outcome than had we stuck with it.

I was merely worried about lactose intolerance being a possible cause of her staying awake at night.

It is a bit endless at this age.

I don't think it's the temp of the bottle that's making her stop feeding as they don't mind it room temp. It's probably because she feels full. You can keep the same bottle for up to two hours out of the fridge. I'd just pop it to one side and then give the rest after she's had a break. She's wanting it in two or three goes. It's still the same feed, but broken up.

Honestly, your baby sounds totally normal and your experience does too. It comes across that you are trying to set routines, identify and solve problems, basically gain some control. I was like that too with my first (it reflected how I did my job) and once I realised its just chaos with a baby and there's little you can do to control it, the happier we all became. At 8 weeks it's quite normal for a baby to fully occupy two parents and leave no time for anything. Welcome to parenthood! It does get better when they are about 4. Just love and cuddle the baby, try some of the ideas here, and accept this is how it is.

That must be really tough. With the formula, this may not work, but have you tried a teat with a faster flow? I presume you are using a number 1 teat on her bottles at the moment? You could try using a number 2 or a variflow to see if that helps her take the milk better. Sorry if this has already been suggested up thread, I haven't read through it all. I just recall real battles with my now 18mo to get him to take a bottle in one sitting and the epiphany that he was just struggling to get it to come out of the bottle fast enough.

Just to give you an idea of my 5 month old (who has slept like this since about 4/5 weeks)

6 am wakes up

2 pm ish 1 or 2 hours to sleep

9/9:30 pm goes to sleep

12:00/1:00 wakes up

Then wakes at least another 2 or 3 times (sometimes more often)

There's no way that she would sleep at 7.

Just thought these timings would help you to see the patterns of another baby.

Basically your baby at this age is learning how to ingest milk, watching and listening, starting to learn a bit of gross motor control with arms and growing. So the little and often approach to eating is needed to give them a constant supply of energy, until their tummy's can hold a bit more and give them slow release of energy.

Breast milk is high in sugar because on the breast it's even worse - they can feed all day sometimes. These are called cluster feeds and occur during periods of growth. Bottle fed babies will have their own version of cluster feeding, but the cows milk has less sugars and more carbs so they can go a little bit longer without feeding. But not much longer because the stomach is still small.

So you're doing all the right things. It's just surprising first time round because you probably thought all newborns do is sleep but in reality they are busy little bees. They are learning all sorts when awake watching your faces and starting to realise they have arms they can wave about. They actually just really have little naps and then need refuelling. There's a lot going on in their little brains.

I found the bouncer was good for keeping baby at an angle to help with the gas too. The infacol won't reduce gas as such, just joins it all together for one bigger burp/fart.

With burping, after a feed just sit baby on your lap and straighten their back. You can put baby on your chest upright too. Rub their backs to help the air join together in their tummy and come out. But the positioning is key for burping. You sort of hold the baby under the chin with one hand and rub with the other.

yes, try another sized teat. You'll know if it's too fast if baby's mouth over flows and she gags a bit. But it might help. It's sort of trial and error with babies.

Just to add that my husband found the stage you're at to be challenging as he'd come home from work and there'd be endless crying, not going to sleep until later etc. It's all a bit relentless at this stage!! It does start to get much easier and you're life starts to resemble what it was before!

Definitely try the bouncer! I have heard rumours that some babies will even sleep in them. Mine never did, but at least she'd be entertained by it for long enough to let me grab a cup of coffee, which was sorely needed

I think the best approach is really just to try EVERYTHING, and eventually you'll hit on something that sort of works. Mine had to be carried and moving - she'd have happily spent the whole day in the sling. So we spent a lot of time walking round in the fresh air, because that seemed to help. Swaddling and white noise helped a bit. Quiet, dark places didn't help her sleep, but movement and noise did (we used to dance around to the Ramones - not exactly lullaby music!)

I wouldn't put too much stock in the anti-gas medicines, but that's just my experience. I'm still a bit resentful of how much I paid to Infacol for something that did bugger all, just because everyone told me my baby was unsettled because she "had gas". Looking back I think she was just being a baby, honestly.

It is really important to find ways to keep yourselves as parents sane. I think not blaming yourselves for whatever your baby's doing is a big part of that! This stage is hard; it will get easier in time; in the meantime, just make an effort to look after yourselves as well as the baby. If that means eating off paper plates so you save time on dish-washing, or guaranteeing each other one hour of baby-free time to relax every evening or whatever, then so be it.

My DD is also a sleep fighter and I think 8/9 weeks was just about the worst time. She's now 12 weeks and things have got much better, if that's any comfort to you/your wife! I'm in denial about the upcoming four month sleep regression

It sounds like she's in an overtired cycle. Babies are annoying like that, the more tired they get the harder it is to get them to sleep. And although babies need differing amounts of sleep, if she's awake for six hours straight and yawning the whole time she IS tired and if you can possibly get her to sleep during that time you will all be a lot happier. All that worked for me when DD was at her worst was walking with her in the sling, or trips in the car. It was a bit miserable and meant I couldn't sleep when she slept, but I found the more naps she got during the day the better she settled at night, so it was worth it.

Also, although your baby is certainly within the realms of ”normal", there ARE some other "normal" babies who do just sleep. I've seen some of my friends' babies just drift off on their playmats with no encouragement whatsoever. So although you shouldn't worry that there's something wrong with your baby I think it's fair enough for you to feel a bit frustrated that you didn't get one of those magic sleeping babies. I know I did, and it made me feel better when I was finding things tough.

With the eating little and often - this is also normal, but it is of course going to drive you insane in the longer term! Ideally you'd want her to start taking a bit more at each feed and spacing the feeds out a bit. Are you definitely reading her hunger cues right, could she maybe be telling you she's tired instead? Are you feeding her every time she cries?

Get a stretchy wrap sling and go walking. Get out every day, preferably to something with other babies. Whinging about your baby's crap sleep/feeding/whatever with others going through similar really helps and also made me feel reassured that my baby was normal. Baby groups, baby massage, cinema, swimming, buggy/sling walks. I live fairly rurally and all these are available near me. I found I obsess over sleep times if I'm at home, if I go out and carry on with my day I worry less and the baby sleeps more. Babies at this age are often fussy and gassy and refluxy but it usually oasses quite quickly so hopefully things will improve.

53rd yes yes yes on the anti-gas medicines. So often I hear "wind" or "gas" being given as the reason why babies are unsettled but I'm really not convinced by that. Sometimes I think my HV has shares in infacol, she recommends it for basically everything. There's no evidence it even works.

Also, it's quite normal for babies to get a bit drowsy after feeds but because of our obsession with wind, rather than letting them go to sleep we start vigorously patting/rubbing them on the back in order to "burp" them. Then they cry because they're tired but too awake to sleep, but we put it down to gas, and so the whole cycle continues.

That's my theory anyway...

Thanks again to everyone who replied!

The #2 teat tip is actually new to me, and I know we have one somewhere, so I'll definitely give it a try. I'll also scour Amazon for a bouncer, as I could hopefully have it in by tomorrow. If anyone knows of a fantastic best buy in that category, I'm all ears.

We have the fisher price woodsy friends one. It keeps DD entertained for ages. She won't usually nap in it though, so I wouldn't recommend it from a sleep perspective!

Hi Krill, your post has actually helped me. My baby (who is now a toddler) is breastfed and exactly like yours. I put it down to him being breastfed but clearly some babies are just like this. If you buy a bottle of Calpol it comes with a syringe which might make administering gripe water easier at night. I also agree with the vibrating bouncer suggestion and would suggest books under one side of the crib.

However the only things that worked for me was simply holding my baby nearly all evening, swaddling had some limited success and a dummy which calmed ds immediately. I remember being where you are and googling high needs babies. He would feed nearly constantly and sleep in 15 minute stretches. We ended up cosleeping.

Good luck

Have you tried swaddling op? Feed until she stops, burp for as long as you've fed her for, then into a swaddle and a gentle rhythmical bounce up and down on her side while "shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"ing into her ear.

Oh yes to a dummy too! Some babies just need to suckle.

Don't buy a bouncer off amazon because you can have it tomorrow. If you go to mothercare you could have it today!

Get motherca results cheapest one. They all do the same job!

I'm going to go against the grain here, but only because my now 4yo DD2 behaved in a very similar manner, taking hours to feed and being excessively gassy. The GP diagnosed CMP allergy, so we switched to prescription formula which helped a bit, but the feeds took up every waking minute. And there were plenty of them, as she hardly slept.

It turned out she had a tongue tie. I had questioned this since birth (her tongue was a little heart shaped), but was told by HV and GP that 'She's fine, she can stick her tongue out' and 'Bottle fed babies don't have tongue ties'

From what you're saying, if your DD is tongue tied, the excessive BF and FF taking so long could be symptoms of the same problem. Worth a check- Google 'milk matters' for a list of reputable tongue tie experts; they're very helpful on the phone too.

DD2 was 8mo before she had hers snipped- she would take up to 4 hours to drink 5oz at that point. Straight after being snipped, she downed a bottle in 10 mins

Good luck with it all- one way or another, it DOES get better

It's worth adding that my toddler is now very placid and barely cries if that gives you any hope. He took a long time to sleep through the night and doesn't seem to need a lot of sleep but it does get a lot easier.