'Sleep is for the Weak' for anyone with August/Sep 06 DC's

[justJAM]

GM, Cruise and anyone else with LO's born around August/September 06' - this is a support thread for when you have no clue as to why your LO is doing the exact opposite to what they were doing last week and when you are thinking WTF????
Post on here and we shall all compare notes and comfort each other!!

Cruise ... yes ... on antidepressants as a precaution this time around since it felt like I was a POW last time, and I'm still having flashbacks.

The thing of it is ... it's our PEDIATRICIAN who is telling us to train the baby, telling us that by this age babies naturally should sleep 5 hours or so, but they can and should be trained to sleep 10 hours or so, and that by 4 months J. needs middle-of-the-night food like you or I would need a hamburger at 2am. The man has four kids of his own; he's used cc with them all ... agree that in our case cc doesn't seem to be working! But certainly feel much safer knowing that Dr. feels baby doesn't need food ... actually 2 month appt was when he told us not to feed him any more in the middle of the night. And truly this isn't about food, as sometimes won't even take a full bottle in the morning, prefering to eat later. Dr. also said we should train ASAP, b/c by 4 months babies become more manipulative and by 6 months it's even harder to train them ... sigh. Invited us back into his office next week to check DS2 if we couldn't get him to sleep through by now, but what's he going to do, give us baby melatonin?

Pink ... PLEASE don't tell me that, about it taking one year ... OMG; don't know how I could cope with that [biting nails emoticon]

I know of too too many horror stories where we're living - at least 5 people whose kids sleep with them in their bed every single night - which I think is unbelievable ... but they don't seem to mind too much, as if it were a minor annoyance. Frankly, knowing these people makes me (just me now, not saying it's not right) downright frightened to be baby-led where this is concerned. But Ginger, if your DD's teething & has a cold then I totally understand where you're coming from. DS2 currently super-healthy, so re: him.

ok, so he woke just after 9 and has only just... hopefully, dare i say it, gone back down now.

many more night like this and i'll have a nervous breakdown.... is there a big black circles under the eyes emoticon?

Pinktulpis DD has also discovered the clawing at everyones face trick [ grin] She thinks its so funny when she has hold of my bottom lip in her vice like grip!!!

Last night was a disaster. She was fed and put to bed just after 7, and I then went out leaving DH in charge (was gonna be home by 9). Got a phonecall at 8.30, saying she was hysterical and he couldn't calm her could I come home . Got home to find her in just nappy with a cold flannel on her head {shock]as he said she was v v hot and he was terrified she's pass out . Quite impressed with his actions though. But DH distraught that she stopped crying as soon as I picked her up .

Can you get a temperature with teething (twas only slight)??? She is fine during the day but only gets worked up at night. Got her settled about 11, and she slept till 5 But was probably due to temperature or shear exhaustion from crying.

Have been on another thread about this but am now terrified of going out unless she is well and truly asleep. She was in such a state

Yes my LO has also discovered the delights of hanging off bits of my face too. LOL

My night was awful, again. She spent a lot of the night whinging. Not really crying just moaning, which I couldn't sleep through and because she'd spat her dummy out (new game) I kept shoving it back in in the vain hope that she'd go back to sleep. Had meltdown about 6 oclock and went in the spare room. DH took over and she slept until 9.30 grrr why couldn't she do that in the night. Anyway, I'm also thinking of putting her in her own room then I'd just respond to the genuine cry rather than at every whimper.

Marls I'm stunned your pead. said that babies were manipulative at 4 months They're babies FFS!!! It's hardly like they're trying to rob an old lady of her life savings. Why is it that we think we need to 'train' babies anyway? Makes it sound like they're all born yobs and somehow we need to beat that out of them. I'm all for getting more sleep but I do believe that in time things will work themselves out. We all sleep and have done for as long as we can remember don't we? Obviously, extreme tiredness is driving us all nuts but I'm optimistic about the future. However, if you still find me here in 3/4 months I may consider doing something more drastic but I do think that for the first few months they're too young to be made to fit in with our version of what's normal. They've got very tiny tummies and need to be fed frequently. They're also used to 24 hour comfort when they're in the womb so it's to be expected that they're going to need some time to adjust. Remember everything they experience is new to them. If that happened to us as adults we'd be terrified. I think the phrase 'baby led' makes us feel resentful when our LO's don't do as we want. Surely we'd be better off calling it 'responding to their needs' or better still 'being a mummy'. It's the hardest job in the world and we should all be proud of ourselves for getting this far. I understand there is an ideal that we're all striving for but our babies, like us, are all different so don't get stressed about what other people and their kids are doing. They'll have different problems at some point down the line.

Sorry about the rant, it comes after a long night where, yes I did get frustrated with my LO for being awake so much of it, but when I looked at her tiny face this morning I realised that she is only a baby after all and she needs me even if it is just for reassurance.

well said ginger

ginger - we are planning on moving ds to his oqwn room this w/e. i feel nervous and but i think we will sleep better for it

Fucking great post ginger - here here
You should of ended it with 'nuff said'

Good luck moving your lo to his own room. We found it helped enormously! DD would only sleep in her travel cot in the living room with tv on for first six weeks - dh can only sleep in silence so I caved and slept on sofa with dd in her travel cot on the floor (not right next to sofa in case I rolled off!). At six weeks I suddenly thought, what am I doing??? and moved dd into her crib in our room - still inside the travel cot. She hated it. And we couldn't sleep for all the noise she was making in those precious few minutes when she was actually asleep.

So we popped her in the travel cot inside her big cot for a few nights. She still woke but less frequently - and we slept in between the wakings because we didn't have all the snuffly baby noises going on.

Fingers crossed it works out for you too.

so fg peed off. ds was so tired just now. Practically asleep on my shoulder. Put him in cot, stroked his face. He became teary, then hysterical. Picked him up, still crying. nearly asleep on my shoulder again. He obviously needs a nap. Still grizzling/screaming on and off. Do I get him? I can't go out inteh buggy/car so he can sleep. I don't want to. I have put him in his cot ffs not on a bed of broken glass. Plesae nap . Why is this so fucking hard? I am pissed off. pissed off. pissed off.

Cruise, while you're trying to wean him off napping in the buggy why don't you either make a nest for him on the sofa and you sit with him or lay on your bed with him. Just for a few days then progress to the cot. Seems to be going OK for me (touch wood) DD is currently asleep in her cot. (for an hour FFS!!) she has got a cold tho. I've had to poke the dummy in a couple of times but she's still there. The sleep on the sofa was working well but I wasn't geting anything done so we've moved to the cot and the transission hasn't been too painful. I put her in when still awake and give her some soft toys to look at while I potter about shushing if she gets whingy. She has fallen asleep by herself. I think the key is to get them in there before they get too tired else they're really grumpy. Hark at me I sound like I know what I'm talking about!!

let it out cruise - come on here and say
FUCK! FUCK! FUCK!
I'm sorry you are feeling so shitty

cruise, your not alone... ds had a total of one half hour nap yesterday but was clearly shattered all day.

i feel like i'm banging my head against a brick wall!

lets all join in a big rousing chorus of

FUCK! WHY THE FUCK WON'T THEY FUCKING SLEEP?!! FUCK! FUCK! FUCK!

feel better anyone?

gn - jam - he is now asleep in his cot. He fell asleep on my shoulder (he never does that!) and I put him in tho goodness knows how long for. he had a good 1.5hrs this morning so I guess 45 mins would be acceptable. i have been puttng him in cot for over a week now nad sometimes it is OK sometimes not. He must learn how to get himself to sleep and I don't want him yelling the place down. .
ginger - since I have already started the cot thing I don't want to go backwards I think it will confuse him even more. Also he is going into his own room soon so there will be lots of changes for him, formula, solids, new room, not being bf to sleep at nite/during nite. wanna keep it simple. iyswim

Cruise - my sympathies. DD never sleeps for more than an 1.5 hrs all day, usually in 3 stints. So by 6 she is unbearable. I've tried leaving her in her cot when she wakes in the hope she'll gop back to sleep - no luck! My dad referes to the period from 6 till 7 as the 'witching hour' - wants nothing to do with her around this time. I'm gonna invest in a blackout blind this weekend so if she wakes she might think its night and go back to sleep for a bit longer.

Think it should help if lo in own room, you don't hear every whimper the same. Have to confess I put dd in her own room at 10wks. DH has to have perfect silence to sleep, and couldn't cope with her snuffles.

cc - with my dd she was in her own room by 6 weeks as she was such a noisy sleeper! Maybe that is the key to why she slept through by 11 weeks.... hey! Maybe that is it !!!

Cruise, I understand you not wanting to change things again and consistency is definately the best thing. Keep me posted because I'll be following your lead. I think you're right about them in their own room. It'll be really hard but I think we disturb them as much as the other way around. For me, because I'm generally trying to keep her quiet so as not to wake DH I think I respond too soon and therefore wake her up more. Difficult to say really but I'll give it a go and see what happens. Here's to a better night all round.

Ginger - re extending naps, DD the same - exactly 1/2 hour naps, v bizarre.. I am making sure she is really warm and cosy, then rocking her chair and shushing as soon as she twitches.. yesterday was a total fluke I reckon, but managed an extra 20 mins this morning.

I also think her waking is partly due to her being a bit cold - our house is bloody freezing, if I stuck to the no extra blankets over her sleeping bag she'd be an icepop in the morning, but a bit paranoid about bundling her up too much

Agree with everyone about us disturbing them as much as the other way round (though I'm pretty sure I don't fart as much as she does)

Ginger it was def not an attack on anyone else's methods; just repeating what he's said ... bottom line is I think that worke best for him and he knows as a medical professional that it's not harmful (or why would he have done so to his own children?) so that's what he advocates. I too hate the term "baby-led". I don't know which way will end up working for us.

pinktulips- ds ususally settles down by 7pm. Tonight he is yelling his head off so I had better go . Yes indeed. Fuck fuck fuck

Marls, wasn't having a go at you. Rather what he was advocating

I think we are the most qualified when it comes to our children even if it doesn't feel like it sometimes, so what was best for him might not be best for you so it was his one size fits all approach that I took offence to. I wonder if he did really leave his kids without feeding them in the night. I'd be very surprised. Probably like all our men, 'I didn't hear them so they obviousy didn't waken' yet his wife was probably up all night.

Giner - LOL. Thanks I really appreciate that. Manipulative referring to a baby is too much, I agree. I think what he meant was if a baby receives a desired response (from his parents) to an action he initiates, then he'll repeat that action for similar desirable response. Well, if an American pediatrician is telling untruths then he's really playing with fire in this lawsuit-happy country. Any harm comes to any baby under his care due to any of his advice, and he's finished.

He does seem out of touch with our reality, insisting on events we simply have not been able to accomplish. I think next time I'll ask for his wife's number to check

marls - iyo when is it right to let a baby cry? I am so tempted sometimes to let ds cry a bit esp when it comes to daytime napping when I kn he is tired and just needs sleep. I feel awful letting him yell but if I go to him after him yelling for 10 mins or so then his yelling has been pointless for all concerned iyswim. I find this cc/cio/crying down thing so friggin' confusing. I am sure in our parents day (dunno how old you are but I am 41) children were not so pandered to and mums just got on with stuff. Do we, as a generation, make too much of things iyo?

at a footnote - I wish I could chill and enjoy my beautiful, long awaited, baby son. It makes me sad that I can't be more relaxed. he is the most beautiful little boy in the world and I am making heavy weather of him. When he wakes tonight (and he is sure to!) I will give him extra cuddles and kisses - after all - I might as well enjoy it!

that's the best attitude to have cruise.

it's so exhausting at this stage but it's over so quickly and we really don't want to be looking back and onlyhave memories of being angry or frustrated at them.

at the end of the day they're babies... if they're crying it is because they need something, and cuddles are just as important as milk at this age. ds is... fingers crossed.... still asleep and has been since 7.30 so i'm going to try and sneak up and get a bit of rest.

i wish you all a peaceful and boring night

Ok I know I will jinx myself but Ive managed to get DS to go down awake for bedtime and all naps. Still only napping for 30 mins though unless mil gets her hands on him and puts extra blankets on him and so hell sleep for 1 /2 hrs and hes still waking twice a night. Last night was down to once but I think this was a one off.

It took me almost a fortnight to get him to go down awake but very little crying(less than 10 mins)

Dont know if this will help anyone but this is what we did;
Feed and cuddle him until he started to close his eyes(so that I knew he was ready).
Put him in his cot on his side,
Give him a muslin to hold
Stayed there patting his bum. If he started to cry I would pat his bum faster until he calmed down again. Once he calmed down I just kept my arm on his side. He generally used to cry in 3 intervals ie cry, stop, cry, stop, cry finally stop.
I left my arm on him until he had had his eyes closed for a few minutes.

I then moved to no patting and just kept my arm on his and now I just lay him down on his side keep my hand on his side until hes settled and closing his eyes and then I leave.
I think we had the most crying the 1st night for a max of 10 mins off and on but the next night it quickly reduced. It was mainly just moaning and you could tell it was just a fed up moan.
Once he was doing this at bedtime for a fornight I did the same at nap times.

Right have to go now as hes awake!!!!!!!!