15 weeks old - why is it that all the other babies sleep through?!

[Billysboobs]

ds is 15 weeks and I only seem to talk to mums whose babies have been sleeping through since 5 weeks. I'm fed up with the number of people who sound surprised when they ask and I tell them he doesn't sleep through. We were on holiday last week and I thought sod the 'routine' - it's such hard work getting him down in the evening... I usually start at 6pm with a feed, in a darkened room, and it takes up to three hours - more on a bad night, and I'm so relieved when I finally get him to sleep before 9pm on a good night. I'm 'guilty' of using props - feeding to sleep, or rocking to sleep - but on odd occasions he has put himself to sleep. On holiday last week I thought, I refuse to spend every evening in a dark room rocking or feeding to sleep, so I put him down on his playmat in the lounge and he fell asleep after an hour (10pm), and the lights were on and the tv was on and I thought HA! all these evenings spent sitting in dark bedroom. We scooped him up and put him in his cot, and he slept until 5am. The next night similarly he slept from 9pm until 5am. I thought - blimey this is it, we will have to move here and ds will have to sleep in a travel cot forever! BUT after those two hope-filled nights we are back to spending hours trying to get him to sleep (dh is in the bedroom with him now - he wants to try some cc, but I just don't know) and then he still wakes up sometimes at 12am, but pretty much always around 3am-4am and then again at 6am-7am. He usually goes back in his cot no fuss and back to sleep (which is at least one good thing).

I'm tempted to vaguely try Gina Ford again (it's me who hates the routine really, I suppose). But what are you supposed to do if it takes 3-4 hours to settle them in the cot in the first place? Wake them up at 11pm for another feed anyway - as if I could!!!!

If anyone has any advice I'd appreciate it. I'm sorry about the rambling nature of this message - I just feel better getting it all down in writing, however it all comes out. Sometimes I just feel so low with it all and feel like a complete failure. Other times I feel top of the world and think to hell with it - all babies are different and I will keep at it until he grows through it, and then I read the messages here and realise it could be years!

It's funny isn't it - the one thing we love to do as adults is sleep - you would think that babies would just want to enjoy it and close their eyes and get as much as they can???

Well thanks in advance for any advice.

(PS I've read Gina Ford and Baby Whisperer and the one about the 'core sleep' - I hear can't stop thinking about all the things that I am doing 'wrong' during the night feeds!)

By the way - I meant to ask - how long does it take everyone else to settle their babies to sleep. Like I said in my rambling message - I start at around 6pm and get him ready for bed, sing a bed time song, draw the blinds and dim the lights, feed him and then try and settle him in his cot. It usually goes ok, but the feed (200ml from a bottle - formula - all other feeds are bf) can take up to an hour to give him. I always top up with bf - it feels like he is waiting for it so that he can go to sleep - and when I give up with the bottle and go to put him on the breast he makes these excited noises as if to say - at last the real thing!

Why does it take so long to feed him the bottle of milk? He spends a lot of time just chewing on the teat and moving it around his mouth. It takes about 10 minutes for him to get going with it.

Any advice here would be appreciated too.
Thanks

Hi, nothing much to suggest except to ask, do you use a baby sleeping bag for him? My ds slept so much better after we started using them. The only other things we did at that age were to make sure he never went for more than 4 hours between feeds during the day and to do a strict bath, feed and bedtime routine (in his cot at 7pm). I did have a copy of Gina but didn't really follow it.

Just read your second message: why don't you try a bf at night instead?

Thanks gingernut... he is in a grobag though... the formula feed at night was to try and fill him up and stop him trying to snack feed off me all evening. My dh has managed to get my ds off to sleep (although he did think he needed the teat from the bottle to suck on - my ds that is, not my dh...). Perhaps we should try a dummy.

And there I am opening another can of worms!

OK, well I'm going to get some sleep before the next feed. Thanks for the help

Billysboobs - ignore the other mums - do what's right for you and ds.
Think you're doing the right thing writing it down so can decide what you can/ can't cope with and then doing something about it.
Don't know if this will be any use: When dsis was having trouble settling her ds her hv suggested expressing milk onto his favourite soft toy as an extra comfort (sounds a bit unhygienic but he's still alive to tell the tale). That and a bit of music worked for her (eventually).

Well, we gave ds a dummy becasue he was a very sucky baby (used to like to suck my finger). He found his thumb at about 5 months and thereafter rejected the dummy. If he wants to suck I'd give it a go.

I asked about the bf because it sounds as though he doesn't really like the bottle... just wondered what sort of teats you are using? Have you tried the orthodontic type that are more nipple-shaped?

Hi Billysboobs (love the name!)

My little one was just the same until I started to sleep with her the same bed. This meant she slept next to me and was reassured - plus she could feed when she wanted and I didn't have to make any effort. I just fed lying down.

The formula you're giving is harder work for her to digest. Some babies have to sleep to digest but for others it makes no difference. It's a bit like after a big meal - somelike to snooze whilst others like a walk around The bottle teat also requires a different form of sucking compared to breastfeeding - she seems to be happy to breastfeed so could be why she's not so keen on the bottle.

When dds didn't sleep I just had to go with it - sort of surrender to it. I tried to be kind to myself. With DDs 2 & 3 I sleep in the same bed straight away - I didn't want to take any chances on lack of sleep with them.

Wishing you all the best

BB - had another read of your post. Just a suggestion here - and assuming that you would rather feed him at 11 than at 3 to 4 a.m. (big if).
Would it be worth trying him with a bf at 6 cf bottle. Keep the bottle for 11. Wake him at 11 to feed (husband's job of course) - and see what happens.
This assumes he takes a while to settle at 3a.m. anyway so no loss if wake him at 11????

Really, I don't think you should listen to the other mums. I truly believe that anyone who tells you their baby sleeps through, before they are at least 6 months old is lying, either to themselves or to you or both. I have five children, and none of them slept the night before 8 months, and I would not expect them to. My baby is now 9 months and sleeps at around 9pm, after a bf, held in my arms(yes, I do know better!), and then sleeps until about 2 or 3 and wakes again at 6ish. Because he is in bed with us this is not a big deal. However with ds1, he slept beside us in a cot, and I would have to pick him up to feed him, which was hard. Still he slept through eventually and your dd will too. I am a believer in controlled crying after 9 or 10 months, and it does work. But spending 3 hours trying to settle a baby seems like a lot of hard work. There is no right or wrong way, just the way that works for you all. Find that, and forget the books and other peoples supposed perfect babies. Sorry, long post, hope it helps.

Billysboobs ... sympathies. I am convinced that the reason DD settles so well is that she has a dummy ... Perhaps you should try that? It also takes DD ages to finish a bottle of EBM and to be hones a b/f is easier. I agree with cab in that perhaps the formula would be better given at 11pm?

How much does your ds feed and sleep during the daytime? Maybe he doesn't settle well at night because he has slept too much in the daytime? I don't know ... just bouncing around some thoughts ...

(Zaphod ... I think your post is a bit harsh ... My DS DID sleep through from 16 weeks ... and I know that I am not a liar ... )
All babies are different ....

Have not had the the time to read all the thread but apart of offering my simpathies I just wanted to tell you that my DS slept through at 5m and he was doing it quite early compared to all other babies we know. So I assume that sleeping through at 15 m it not only difficult but also kind of impossible for most babies that age as they still need to be feed at least twice during the night!

Good luck!

They really truly aren't you know. Ds2 is nearly there at 5.5 months - was nowhere near at 15weeks.
I agree with others that it may be better just to bf him in the evening- it may be trying to force him to take a big bottle when he's really tired might be causing more problems than its solving. My ds2 didn't like taking a bottle when he was very tired - just woke him up more.
How is the day time sleep? Too little or too much? Are you trying to get him settled without any crying in the evening (I've always found this impossible to achieve - I tend to make sure he is fed, clean and nicely tired, then I leave him to it. He sometimes cries for a few minutes before goign off, sometimes not at all).

hi i hate routines and my DD doesn't always sleep though now and shes 19months. I'm sure lots of people will disagree but i tend to take my lead form her. she is a nightowl like her daddy and i won't get her into bed a 6pm if i tied her down!! so maybe 6 is juts too early. i kinda of think if he was happy playing undre his babygym until 10 thne let him.

on another note have you tried sleeping him in the travel cot at home? its just our DD prefers it to the wooden cot so we got it a proper mattress and thats where she now sleeps

sorry didn't have time to read all the other suggestions. my dd didn't sleep through the night until 6 m old. your problem seems to be that he's not just going to sleep straight away when you put him in his cot. since you're wasting up to 4h of your time tryiong to get him to sleep and it doesn't work, why not put him to bed at say 8-9pm (with a routine i.e bath, milk, cot). maybe he'll be tired enough by then to just fall asleep. i used gina ford's book from very early on and in the main it did work. i am quite strict when it comes to routines so maybe that's why it did work. but you must't beat yourself up about what other people's babies do. everyone is different. the only advice i would liek to give you though - and don't want to sound patronising in any way and admit it's a personal choice after all- is do not use a dummy if you haven't done so already. as you say, you'd only make more work for yourself in the long run.

Neither of mine either - not by a long, long way. DS1 was 8months before he was sleeping through - honest, ds2 was a little earlier, but still 6 months I would have said. Even though they weren't sleeping through though, the feeds got quicker and the waking time shorter.

I think 15 weeks is very early to be sleeping through, though I have heard of it. I wouldn't freat and don't compare - hard I know. Just try to go with what your baby seems to want.......Well, thats what I did but everyone is different...

Zaphod, agree entirely with your first sentence. DD1 is now 5 and doesn't sleep through!

Sorry to jump in on your thread Billyboobs, but can I ask everyone should I let dd cry to settle? She is only 4 weeks old but she is more alert these days, I go to bed at 10.30 with her and she is still staring wide-eyed at me at 12.30am. It's just I am starting to get really tired!

I should also have said she is awake longer during the night too. She used to just take a feed and go back to sleep, but now her eyes snap open as soon as I put her down. It was 3.00 til 5.30am last night!!!

My ds didn't sleep through until 8months. Until them it was sleepless hell and total pandemonium. But two years on, he's lovely, lovely, lovely. Asleep now and sleeps all night. I think 15 weeks is young to sleep through. You are not a failure! My ds was ready for cc at 8months. It seems a lifetime away from where you are, but it isn't really.

ha, ha , ha , ha

sorry billysboobs not in anyway laughing at your thread just at the idea that all babies sleep through at 15 weeks.
mine didn't sleep through until 8 months (sorry, probably not what you wanted to hear) and I know lots of other mums on here with varying experiences of anywhere between 12 weeks and 12 months!

It is SO hard with babies that don't sleep, believe me I know and you have all my sympathy. Nothing really to add on the practical front except agree that just BF in the evening may help. Do what works, forget routines if they don't work for you. if what you did on holiday worked then try to replicate it at home. good luck

My DS is nearly 6 months and still wakes at least twice in the night - once for a feed. Do not listen to other mums - they are not being completely truthful. They may have a different definition for sleeping through. My ds goes to bed at 7pm and wakes in the morning at 7am - I could say he is sleeping through even though he does wake regularly during the night he does not leave his cot except for a feed. I am not a big Gina ford fan but her basic sleep routine has worked for both of my kids - get up at 7am, sleep 9-9:45, 12-2, 4.30-5.15. Sometimes they do not sleep as well at night if they have had too little or too much sleep during the day. HTH

the formula thing is a myth at least IMHE!
DD woke at least once or twice a night until 12 mths, and now when teething or for some reason will do so at least once a week (18mths) but the joy of setting a good bedtime ritual up is that your baby will settle with the lead up activities and this makes it easier to resettle in the night, it is perfectly normal for a bay that age to feed 3-4 times from 7-7. not ncie but true
You're doing great

Hi billysboobs! I know it's the hardest thing in the world when your baby doesn't sleep but believe me there are lots of 'em about and plenty much much older than 15 weeks

My ds is almost 11 months and has only just started sleeping 10+ hours! I had to get a bit tough and stop nightfeeds and rocking etc cold turkey but it did work. We also did a bit of 'cowardly cc' - i.e. leaving him to cry for a bit and then going in and soothing without picking up until he settled. But I would say that at 15 weeks your ds is too young for all of that anyhow!

Do what comes naturally and whatever you can cope with. I was absolutely convinced that ds was firmly entrenched in all kinds of 'bad' habits (i.e. loving, comforting, soothing habits!) but was very surprised at how quickly things have turned around (a matter of a couple of nights at most). I also have to say that whilst a bit of cc etc has worked for us, I genuinely believe that sleeping through is as much a developmental issue as anything - i.e. they'll do it when they're ready and not before, and every baby is different.

Sorry if this isn't much help on the practical side but just to let you know it does get better!

billysboobs - my ds is the same age (well, 16 weeks) and very similar.

He still doesn't sleep through, but I have improved bedtime no end by noticing when he wakes up from his last afternoon nap (he has several, but sometimes I rock him to sleep at about the right time to be sure), and putting him to bed exactly two hours later. I then leave him in his cot, but go back in to comfort him every 2 mins or so (tried the pick up put down method, but it didn't work - he cried more). The first night he took 25 mins to go to sleep, now it's about 5.

I'll probably be villified for that, but it was a question of 20 minutes crying or my sanity.

(also dd used to go down fine with a dummy - have you tried that? )