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Sleep

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Original poster

controlled crying advice needed before tonight

76 replies

furniture · 04/05/2004 12:26

Dd, 19 months, previously a good sleeper has been having problems over the last few weeks. I've posted about it before and won't bore anyone with details again but basically we've decided after 3 nights of awful sleep for all of us that we're going to have to try controlled crying seriously. The thing that's confusing me is about whether or not to pick them up when you go in. I've looked at Ferber and Christopher Green. Ferber says not to pick up but to spend 2-3 minutes talking gently to them and then leave. Green says pick up and cuddle until they've quietened down and then put them down and leave. What's been happening with dd is that she stands in the cot calling for me and only goes back to sleep when I go in and lay her down which she does quite quickly in the night and I wouldn't mind if she wasn't doing it 3-4 times a night! She doesn't seem to want to lie down on her own. Should I try not picking her up and see if she'll eventually lie down? (We did try this once in the middle of the night and she stood calling for me for 2 hours, whereas she goes straight back to sleep if I do pick her up and lie her down). We're at our wits end, fighting with each other we're so tired now and really don't know what to do. If anyone has any advice I'd appreciate it, otherwise I think we're going to have to try a sleep clinic but they're so bloody expensive.

OP posts:

Original poster

furniture · 07/05/2004 15:22

Thanks ponygirl and papillon.

If either of you could tell me (if you've got a moment of course) your particular experience in more detail I'd be really grateful. I'm desperate for information of any kind at the moment. Especially ponygirl that you said your dd used to stand up too.

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popsycal · 07/05/2004 15:24

Hi furniture...
thought i would pop in
if you look towards the end of Hulababy's diary of controlled crying, you will see how i did it with DS when he was 17 months

papillon · 07/05/2004 15:32

lazy cut and paste

My baby is younger so haven´t experienced anything like what you are going through

Just wanted to give you some support

Original poster

furniture · 07/05/2004 15:36

popsycal, I read your messages at the end of Hulababy's thread. It seemed as though it didn't work in the end how you'd hoped it would. How are things now?

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Original poster

furniture · 07/05/2004 20:08

Here we are again. 15 minutes in and it already feels like a lifetime ...

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AussieSim · 07/05/2004 20:26

Hi furniture. Thinking of you. My DS is 15mo and I last did proper cc when he was 11mo (sleeping went off track during holiday). I think CC needs to be modified as they get older and know more - ar at least that is how it felt to me. When DS was 6mths and I did it the first time I didn't pick up. When I did it the last time - and even now if he wakes in the night - usually just the once and not every night - I pick him up. Follow your instincts, but with a grain of self-preservation and good luck.

popsycal · 07/05/2004 20:32

oh furntiture - it did work fantastically
i must have left the thread on a bad day lol!!!

we had one or 2 bad days at the start
now he goes to bed at around 7 and i give him a kiss and he goes to sleep on his own
bliss
good luck!

Original poster

furniture · 07/05/2004 20:39

She's gone! Miraculous. Though I still keep imagining any moment I'm going to hear that little 'mamma ...' drifting up through the monitor.

Popsycal, how old's your ds now? Has he ever back-slided?

AussieSim, thanks. I just daren't do the 'picking up' thing now as it really made the problem worse. Prior to that dd was a brilliant sleeper, she started to go off track a bit with her daytime naps and I got into the habit of picking her up and cuddling her and I think the whole problem started from that. I'd heard that picking up was 'kinder' than leaving them but it totally backfired and ended up with her unable to go to sleep unless I picked her up and cuddled her then lay her down. One of our major focuses has been to encourage her to lie down on her own. We've been playing 'lie down' games with her toys on and off in the day and she can say it herself and go to lie on our bed and put her toys to bed so I'm hoping it's going to sink in that she has to do it too. She's so adamantly against lying down that she usually spends all the cc time standing in the cot, making her toy into a little pillow and resting her head on it on the cot bar. Very odd.

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popsycal · 07/05/2004 20:43

ds is now 21 months - did cc with him at 17 months
though i did a softies version!

ds was quite poorly for a week in march and he couldnt get himself off to sleep but soon as he was well he was back to normal

we do have early morning waking though on occassions - think it is more to do with lightness, coldness or loss of dummy!

quite often if we go in and stick another blanket on him he will go back off

oh and we put 3 dummies in his cot then he is bound to find one if he wakes up looking for one!!

ponygirl · 07/05/2004 20:44

Sorry, furniture, I've only just got back to this. Yes, ds2 did the standing up, in fact he still does sometimes during the day if he's being stubborn about his nap. I do lie him down, though during the day he does spring right back up. That was what I did at bedtimes as well, but as he was so tired, eventually he would give up. When I laid him down, it was as limited and functional a contact as I could make it: nod cuddling, chatting, smiling, just: swoop, down and out of the room. I'm not sure that's any help to you, though, as, if I'm remembering correctly, it's having you lie her down that's what she wants.

How much sleep is your dd getting during the day? Could you try and deprive her of sleep during the day or wear her out so that she's dropping with tiredness? It might just weaken her will to defy you! I'll be around for a bit if there's anything else I can help with, but please, grit your teeth and stick with it!

unicorn · 07/05/2004 20:44

sorry not read all the therads... just wondered is she in a sleeping bag- as they help prevent the standing up bit sometimes?
re cc... well it really depends on how strong you are and what you can withstand...
did things differently with dd1 and ds2... but both now sleep generally speaking (thought- teething always affected both of my 2)
Good luck anyway!!

ponygirl · 07/05/2004 20:45

Oh, too slow typing! I'm glad she's gone, for your sake! Let's hope it lasts!

Original poster

furniture · 07/05/2004 20:49

Thanks popsycal, I'm glad your little one's still sleeping well. Maybe this is an age-related thing as dd would have been just gone 17 months when this all started.

ponygirl, thanks. Yes you're right it's the me lying her down that's caused a lot of the problem. In Ferber's sense I've become what she associates with going to sleep, or rather my lying her down has. So the only answer is to stop it and to get her to lie down on her own. She used to do it with no problem so I know she can.

unicorn, yep, sleeping bag since she was 2 months old. Doesn't stop her standing though it does mean she can't climb out!!

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SofiaAmes · 07/05/2004 23:21

hi furniture, glad to hear you've had a breakthrough. cc only took us 2-3 nights the first time. However, everytime ds got a cold (every few months) or we went to a different time zone (every few months) we would have to redo the cc'ing. It would take a few days each time. He's 3.5 now and a brilliant sleeper. One thing that we found was that he has never slept as much as other children his age (even as a newborn he rarely did more than 10-12 hours in a 24 hour period). So we put him (and now dd) to bed around 9pm which means that they have had quite a bit of quiet time around the house before bedtime. And also, we are also going to bed or at least watching tv quietly by that point, so there aren't lots of distractions. Don't give up, it's worth it in the end.

unicorn · 08/05/2004 00:15

So how you planning to get thro tonight- or u may already be asleep_ I believe some MN'TERS actually do!!!
Let us know how it goes... sweet dreams to all.!!

Original poster

furniture · 08/05/2004 12:10

Ok, so last night dd woke at 12.15 and I went in once and then after about 15 mins of v.half-hearted calling for me she must have gone back to sleep until 7.15 this morning. So again an improvement though she's still sleeping in total a lot less than she usually needs. She's also gone down for a nap today (haven't bothered trying to do that the last few days, just took her out in the pram, couldn't face any more crying than was necessary and thought night sleeping the most important to crack first). Not sure how long she'll sleep as she was v. over-tired when I put her down, didn't even want a book which is most unusual. But I am relieved to know she seems (so far!) to have at least got herself back in the habit of lying down on her own as that was probably the biggest problem.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and support. I'll keep you posted!

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maomao · 08/05/2004 19:54

So how's it going tonight, furniture?

Original poster

furniture · 08/05/2004 20:31

Is it a miracle? Is it a fluke? Dd went to sleep tonight after 10 mins of v.v.v. half-heartedly calling my name. She hasn't done that in over a month now, the quickest I've got her to settle has been around 30 mins but lately much longer. And this afternoon she slept for 3 hours which I worried was a bit long but on the other hand she has got a lot of sleep to catch up on so I went with it. Also had a sleep myself. I really really really hope this means we've cracked it. Even if it backslides a bit I'm very determined now as I know she CAN do it and I just have to help her.

Thanks so much for everyone's help and support.

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ponygirl · 08/05/2004 20:35

No miracle and no fluke, furniture, just the benefit of sticking to your guns! Well done, it must be a huge relief, and, as you say, if she relapses, you know you can get it back.

dinosaur · 08/05/2004 20:56

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Original poster

furniture · 08/05/2004 21:20

Yes, it's wonderful! I'm hoping it lasts ... been so traumatised by it that I barely dare hope. But I am hoping just the same.

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suzywong · 08/05/2004 21:22

OH good for you Furniture, it sounds like you can see light at the end of the tunnel.

I know it is traumatising at the time but they neve hold it against you in the morning, nothing like the grudge and wrath that is forthcoming when you refuse to buy them every single dvd advertised on the trailers of Finding Nemo.

Have a big glass of wine and congratulate yourself

emmatmg · 08/05/2004 21:25

been following this one( is that called lurking) and wanted to say Wooooooooo-HOOOOOOOOOO

Original poster

furniture · 09/05/2004 12:00

Thanks again. We're having a bit of a battle with naptime so far today but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. She seems to be getting quieter and it's only been 15 mins so far. Will go check on her in another 5. I never knew minutes could drag along so slowly.

OP posts:

Original poster

furniture · 09/05/2004 12:05

Aha! She's gone!

Last night we had one v. brief waking at 3am and I popped in, gave her a sip of water while she stood in the cot, stroked her head and gave her a kiss and reminded her how much I love her and within a minute she was asleep.

If someone would have told me how this might work and change what was becoming a very difficult situation to live with, I probably wouldn't believe them.

But I'm still to superstitious and paranoid to imagine it can be 'cured' so quickly!!

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