Utterly desperate. DS refusing cot totally. 4.40am and still no sleep.

[chocciechip]

We moved DS into a cot a week ago out of his Moses basket. First five days were fine. He went to sleep as usual with typical awakenings as with Moses basket.

Last night, every time we put him down - even when we believed he was totally asleep, he gives a small startle, raises his arms and starts gurning which turns to a full blown cry. Every.Single.Time. It's like a switch has been flicked.

Last night we ended up taking it in turns to hold him through the night. Both shattered and not happy about it from a safety aspect.

Same with naps today.

Tonight - right NOW - DH was determined to get him in his cot. It is 4.22 am and he still hasn't gone in, startling and weakening and screaming each time we put him down. We now have a shattered baby who is snatching sleep when we hold him and wakening every time we put him down. DH still has had no sleep the whole night, and we just had a row about DH getting in bed and holding him while he sleeps when they're both so exhausted.

But DS will not go in his cot. Right now screaming.

What the fuck do we do? He is my second DC and we've never had a sleep issue that's felt so desperate before.

1/ He is EBF. The constant nursing to soothe him is really hurting me a lot and I frankly feel sucked dry. DH took him and gave him a bottle of EBM earlier while I was asleep thinking he might be hungry, that maybe there literally was no milk now. It hasn't worked.

2/ We have a hot water bottle to warm the cot, humidifier, white noise. He's in a gro-bag. We have the room at perfect temp. We gave him calprofen in case he had pain - night before it as Calpol - neither have had effect.

3/ He goes to sleep being rocked or fed and usually falls asleep and stays asleep. We were planning to sleep train him as we did with DD when he was a bit older.

4/ he has had a cold. We've used snufflebabe and Olbas oil for the last few night which helped when he was bad. He's much better now, still using it - but changed cot sheet earlier in case it was the issue. His nose is clear. We don't think that's what's bothering him.

I am now going to try and sit awake with him after letting him nurse again. But last night I fell asleep holding him while upright so I am scared. Tried putting him next to me in bed on top of duvet cover - same thing, screaming.

I am in such despair over this. Any suggestions for a way forward.

My third one never let me lie him down flat, at all, ever, until he was probably 12-18 months unless I was next to him in bed, so that's what we did and I have slept Ok.

5 months is very little, he could well be getting teeth, and it's normal to be like this. I know you said you don't feel right co sleeping, but have you thought of a co sleeping cot thing that goes right next to the bed?

This is a phase that will not last, btw - if there's one thing you can predict about babies, it's that they will change from week to week if not day to day.

My only advice is to do what he wants and roll with it. You will feel better for it after a couple of days and then you'll be able to think clearly. Whatever you do at this age is not going to stop him from forming good habits, etc etc. It's all very transitory right now.

Get a big towel, biggest one you have an roll it into a long sausage shape, put that into the cot in a u shape. Now fit a large sheet on top and make the bed.
Get rid of the cot side. Have the cot in your bed, flush to your side.

Place ds into the cot snug in the U shape, swaddled, and with your hand firmly on his chest/tummy. Keep your have there for a moment or two as he settles.

I've battled with dc2 for 3 years over sleeping. She had to sleep on me as a tiny baby, then never really settled in the cot and would be up several times a night, then went through a phase of sleeping on the floor, rather than her cot. Sleep training didn't work. Did with dc1, but then, I think he was just a more compliant baby. Dd even now will not settle by her self and will inevitably end up in our bed.

I spent much of her early life utterly bewildered at what we were doing wrong, had we made a rod for our own back etc. I spent many a baby group staring round wide eyed, clutching people and wailing: "why won't she sleep?". It's taken me 3 years to realise that I just need to roll with it and get sleep where I can.

In hindsight, having 2 kids 2 years apart was not a good thing; I was just too knackered to deal with anything second time round.

Hi Choccie.

It might be worth a trip to the Doctors to get yor DS properly checked over.

If you have a good health visitor get them in.

Have you got any family or friends that can help? This is not the time to not want to be a bother. Get someone to have the toddler for the day if you can and, if you can find them, someone else to hold the baby while you and DH catch up with some sleep.

My DD was a diabolical sleeper, if I knew someone struggling the way I was I would help in a heart beat. Don't be too proud to ask.

This has taken ages to type on my phone so probably cross posting like mad.

Are you me!?? Did I write this post in my sleep deprived state? ugh totally know how you feel, I'm going to try sine techniques suggested but the only thing that seems to work for DS (also nearly 5 months) Is tummy sleeping and I really wish it didn't because it makes it even harder to resist putting him on his tummy when I know he'll actually sleep soundly for a couple of hours.

Yes, definitely ask for help, and try the sleeping in shifts suggestion if this is the same tonight. There's a reason why sleep deprivation is used as torture! The way you feel is completely understandable. Lots of sympathy, the phase you're in is very hard.

Any chance he has an ear infection? DD2 was a terrible sleeper, turned out she had glue ear and frequent ear infections, which played havoc with her sleep (and ours).

Hope things get better.

You're all being so kind.

Jemfinch - I am assuming 4 month sleep regression too. Tendon and five - My family are all abroad so I feel very pathetic actually. Would give an arm for my mum to be able to pop in or stay for a while to help. Too far, too expensive. But I think if I ever have friends having babies I might give them time/help vouchers to cash in if they ever have to endure this.

Grizzle - got the bumpers already and just asked DH to look into a divider as well. I ordered a white noise and night night machine in the middle of the night. Desperation comes with quite a cost.

Longdiling - His meds have been adjusted as he grew and we finally (!) saw a paediatrician last week. A bit late I think because it has definitely improved. He is still cranky but is definitely vomiting less. She said this is about the time things improve on their own anyway snd had she seen us two months earlier she'd have suggested domperidine(sp?). Regardless, she's switched meds from Omeprazole to renitadine to see if it makes a difference and suggested weaning him now. I've still not tried new meds because the script didn't go through over the weekend. The thought of weaning overwhelms me right now, but I've wondered if formula added in might help. Although his weight is fine and he's perfectly tracing his curve. I've no reason to think bm hasn't been enough except for the fact it feels as if there's nothing left IYKWIM.

Sweet - I might try move his cot slam against the bed if we get a repeat for a third night.

On co sleeping, I am very worried about accidental smothering. I get so tired I am dead to the world. The cot up close might be a way around my fear. Thanks for that and added detail nilby.

DD had health issues as a baby and I thought nights couldn't ever be as bad as they were with her. DS is proving me wrong!

I don't know what to do about naps today. I'm pretty sure he'll sleep for hours (on us) if we let him because he must be shattered. If we let him, will that make the night ahead even worse?

Sleep begets sleep in babies. Let him sleep as much as he wants to. If he's overtired today he probably won't sleep tonight.

I had a cocoonababy as well for DD (although when she was a bit younger); she liked it and you might find cosleeping a bit less worrying if he was raised up like that?

Oh gosh yes definitely let him sleep whenever he will. This is truly a heart, not head, issue. So if you are tempted to let him sleep, unless you are on a sofa at the time, of course - do it!

Have a look at safe co-sleeping. For bf mothers if done properly the risks are very low

Hi Choccie, would it be possible to do a sleep and roll? So let him falls sleep on you and then roll him off onto the bed/cot?

You can attach the or to the side of the bed. Take one side off and fix the two frames together with bungee cords. And wedge a sheet or towel on the far side of the cot mattress so both mattresses are flush.

Then you can do the sleep and roll. Hope this helps!

Definitely swaddle again. Get a predone one wity velcro.

You've got to change your mindset about this. All he wants is to be with you and repeatedly making him sleep separate from you is the issue. This is a phase, it won't last, you're not setting up bad habits and there's no reason why he shouldn't be wanting to sleep with you. As regards to cosleeping, try lying on your side with him in the crook of your arm. It sounds like he is desperate for comfort and there is nothing wrong with you giving him that.

For the sake of my sanity, my dd slept on my left arm, cuddled up to me from about 5 months old until ....(too embarrassed to say) - it worked for us, when nothing else did, and we both managed to sleep. I am a very light sleeper, in any event, and I felt she was secure with me. I know this is not the "official" advice, but I do so feel for you. I too had no-one to help, so send my sympathies. It does pass!

Babies are hard as when you think you crack it they change the goalposts! I don't have any advice but you have my sympathies as we are currently going through the same thing!

I hear you, I do..very similar issues here.
This might be mad but is there any chance he needs to be winded more before being put down...Dd who has reflux will ping awake times infinity if I don't wind the fuck out of her before bed. So I have to keep going til I hear that big belch.
I also have resorted to swaddle at times with a big muslin - dd is coming up to 23 weeks and well able to roll but I think it's unlikely to be an issue since the swaddle is only a light one and she is well able to screech herself silly should she get stuck (has never rolled at night to my knowledge).

It's very hard. You need sleep. Co sleep until you have caught up and then reassess.

Haven't read the whole thread as I am just going out, but please get his ears checked (in case no-one else has suggested it).

If he has a cold related ear infection or a blocked ear the pain is excruciating when horizontal, but eases as soon as the child is vertical. Post-cold ear pain is common in small children because of the particular anatomy of their ears/nose.

Can you put basket in cot for a week to get him used to room. I did this and it worked a treat!

this sounds hideous. will he sleep in bouncy chair/car seat/buggy? not ideal, but u need some sleep. hope today wasn't too awful. yes to pushing cot up to bed and removing one side. v safe and v easy to b/f, pat, comfort while u lie down and doze

We tried the cot again tonight, with one of my cardies as a sheet and a muslin sprinkled in breast milk. No luck. Same thing again. It's bizarre because he was fine in it for four days, including naps, and rejecting it suddenly at the end of the week.

We're going to see if going back to the Moses basket makes a difference tonight. Starting at square one again.

I can't co sleep with him in my bed. I'd genuinely love to, but I occasionally take medication to help me sleep which could be bad. I am an insomniac so having him there with my worries about it will destroy my sleep too. And when I do sleep naturally, I can sleep like the dead. I could smother him and not know it until the morning. I am terrified of this. It's just not for me for those reasons alone. If I have to co sleep, then the cot suggestions would be the only way forward. But I suspect that's not enough: he seems to want to be held.

Has anyone done sleep training at 5mo? PUPD method? Any luck?

OP you have my sympathies. It sounds very much like what we're going through with DD 24 weeks...it's utterly shit isn't it?!

I'm sure you've tried this already but have you tried timing your DS from when he falls asleep, then attempting the transfer to his cot after 20 minutes? Apparently babies sleep cycles change at around this time and 15-20 mins after falling asleep they should be in deep sleep. I only found this out after weeks of DD wailing as soon as she touched the cot mattress. Turned out I'd been trying to transfer her to the cot when she wasn't in deep enough sleep (even though her arm was totally floppy!). Also I've noticed that on the days when her naps are rubbish she's overtired and wakes very very easily when I try to move her at night. We still end up cosleeping loads as she needs the comfort, but it's definitely getting better. I hope you all manage to get some sleep tonight.

choccie - don't apologise for not co sleeping. loads of ppl on mn do it and recommend it but it was never for me. For me, decent sleep is in my bed sans children!

Have a read through the no cry sleep solution book. We did shhhh pat with ds1 and it worked well after some practice. I also caved and let him sleep on his tummy. which I know is 'bad' but it worked for us and I'd do it again if needs be.

Trial and error. Give everything three nights before giving up though x

Similar issues with all 3 dc, I co sleep but other thing that worked for dc1 that no one has suggested yet to try is putting him on his tummy.

Dc1 only slept on his tummy and still woke loads but this made it every few hours instead of every 20 mins.

Or I would consider a swing over night! You are not alone, there's nothing worse than terrible sleepers and i have 2 x

I forgot about tummy sleeping. Yes, as soon as he can roll definitely try tummy sleeping! DD is so much better at staying asleep on her stomach, and once a friend told me that the nurses in SCBU had put her DC down on his tummy I felt maybe it was ok (although granted they do have a lot of monitoring equipment)... Not SIDS best practice so I didn't do it until DD could roll.