Weaning off dummy - how?!

[18yearsoftrying]

PLEASE help, I'm desperate.

14 week old who SCREAMS relentlessly at full volume if she doesn't have the dummy in her mouth when she falls asleep & wakes up.

One episode saw her awake for 96 hrs without even a nap partly down to severe reflux which isn't helping.

You are not crap.

Yep, 24 hrs a day & last time she was weighed she had only put on 2oz in 14 days.

Tried cranial osteo & Bowen too.

Tried GP Secretary last week and got told the Practice no longer has one.

If I'm lucky I get sleep between 5 & 7 am.

I'm sorry if I haven't acknowledged individual posts, I have read them and will go through them again.

DH came home from work just now with the name of a paed gastro Harley St consultant who is recommended. We will go down that route.

i will do an online search for Carobel thankyou.

Maybe it's time to start weaning?

I just feel like I wanted her off the dummy because it is giving her the comfort that I can't. I'm Plan B. It drives me nuts, as soon as it falls out, she screams so loudly, her lips shake. Even the customers of John Lewis avoided me as I tried to have a cuppa. I couldnt finish it, had to leave.

Thankyou for your kind words. Sitting here with a snotty nose & can't really see the words through tears, with a squirmy rigid little person needing me to make the pain go.

I hope you are in Land of Nod as as Ii hit "Post"

The dummy needs to stay! Plus it will keep her calm during examinations etc.
So glad you have a name to pursue, I think this is one of those urgent issues and you need to be seen by a pro asap.
I wouldn't wean until you talk to the consultant but carobel could be a plan, it's just thickener and safe from birth. You will need to size up a teat.
Please keep us posted as to how you get on. And please don't feel you're crap, you are having a much much harder time than the vast majority of new parents so don't compare.

OP I'm so sorry you're going through this. I'd definitely get a referral to paediatrics as something is really bothering your little one. I know how this can drive you to despair.

When I started out on my journey I was also mix feeding. The hospital gave me nutramigen milk and also advised me to cut out dairy and soya. She wouldn't have the milk and it took about a month to notice a lot of improvement after eliminating it from my diet. My baby is really sensitive and can't tolerate any dairy at all through my milk.

What are your DD's poos like? Does she have any dry skin/eczema/rashes?

And

Definitely keep the dummy! It also helps with reflux, so it may have multiple benefits.

Have you tried taking baby to paediatric a&e? I ended up doing that with my DD when she had bad reflux. They then wanted a two week follow up appointment. After three weeks no appointment arrived so I called and they said the next one was in a month. I had a calm but firm tantrum and got an emergency appointment for the next day! Don't be afraid to stand your ground.

I wouldn't start weaning yet, but I would make more of a fuss about her lack of weight gain, especially if she is feeding so often. What are her nappies like? It sounds like the milk is going straight through her without being digested properly. Have you considered whether it might be a cows milk protein allergy/intolerance? This ended up being DDs problem, the reflux was a side effect of that. For you feeding, maybe try going dairy free for a couple of weeks? For her bottles it is more difficult as the hypoallergenic formula is prescription only. I did find it online, but it was crazy expensive!

I'm so sorry you are going through this, but it will get better in time. When DD started being upright lots of the day, the reflux got much better. Her needing a dummy does not reflect on your skills as a mother or her feelings about you. At the moment she is going through a tough time and just seeking out whatever she can to make her feel better. I'm sure if you totally took yourself away from her for 96 hours she would be inconsolable pretty quickly too.

You also need more sleep. Giving her the dummy would hopefully help with that, but given she is on bottles, can anyone else step in and help overnight? I was refusing help from others as I thought it reflected on me as a mother, until I realised that asking for help would mean that I could catch up on some much needed sleep and get back to being the mother I wanted to be. After I did this and got some sleep I felt far more able to cope with everything and DD actually seemed happier too.

At this stage, really don't worry about all that "rod for your back" stuff. You need to think about what you and your DD need to get through this, what your DD needs to comfort and calm her and what you need to help you rest and feel more confident in yourself. Yes, it might lead to some "bad habits" further down the line, but you can deal with those if and when they occur. Don't put yourself through hell to avoid something hypothetically suboptimal in the future.

Oh God love you, honey! You poor thing. Let her have the dummy. Let her sleep in the car seat or a bouncy chair (that was the favorite of my screamy baby) or on a deer hide imported from Timbuktu if it means you get a little sleep.

I hope you can see a specialist soon, you must be at your wit's end.

My DS had his dummy until he was almost exactly one year - then one night he was so exhausted he fell asleep without it, so we impulsively decided to throw them all away. Because we only ever gave it to him for sleep times and when very distressed/teething etc., it was no issue, he cried for it for maybe about two nights? And then forgot all about it. From then on until now he just chatters away to himself until he falls asleep.

DON'T feel bad about it - all babies are different and you need to find what works for you.

Even I'm feeling emotional reading your posts.

You sound like an amazing mummy who loves her baby so much. It's hard when you can't comfort her like you want to, but it's not you, it's the reflux.

Keep shouting until you get the help you need so you can get on with being the brilliant mum we all know you are.

And in the meantime, have a vent on here.

I've never had a reflux baby but DS3 did have horrendous colic which i realise is nowhere near as bad. We used dummies, sleeping upright, vibrating chairs! We even had friends visit who mention how horrible our baby was at that time, and they couldn't believe how exhausting it was even to spend the afternoon with a colicky baby never mind look after one full time. The sleep deprivation is torturous and is why you are feeling so awful. But it will get better! We all promise you that.

Q: Is she having 6oz every hour, 24 hours a day?

A: Yep, 24 hrs a day & last time she was weighed she had only put on 2oz in 14 days.

Also: Yes to hunger. Switched to mix of breast & formula but nothing stays down. Averaging 11 outfits a day.

Piecing everything together here:

Feeding

• You are over feeding her.
• This is causing her much digestive discomfort and pain
• This is making her sick, you are putting too much milk into her stomach
• The sick results in her digesting less milk
• This restarts the cycle, hungry so over feeding her again.

Sleep

• You are misinterpreting tiredness for hunger
• She needs to sleep much more than she is.
• She is over tired and most of the screaming is exhaustion, not hunger

My Suggestions

• Get a bouncy chair with a removable arch. Remove the arch.

For one week follow a 90 minute routine*, repeated throughout the day:

• 5 oz bottle
• Wind for 10 minutes
• Into bouncy chair and dummy in
• You sit on sofa and bounce that chair evenly and steadily with your foot, re-inserting dummy as required. Keep on bouncing until asleep and stay bouncing the chair while you relax on the sofa watching TV/relaxing.
• 90 minutes after the first bottle stop bouncing and wait for her to wake. Start again.

For the next week follow the same routine but 2 hourly throughout the day.

For the next week, start introducing some awake/happy time for playing after the feed but before the bouncy chair sleep. Maybe only 20 or 30 minutes. Keep it at 2 hourly for another month though.

This is all more sleep than your average 14 month old may need (this is a typical 6 week old routine), but your baby needs to catch up on a lot of rest and needs to learn to sleep and need more evenly and more regularly.

You just need your baby to sleep, do not worry about the hows and whys. Dummy helps baby self settle. Bouncy chair allows hands-free bouncing to sleep and also is a good position for reflux.

op just come back and read your updates.

How horrible for you, u really really feel for you. I went to see a neurologist for lack of sleep! My vision was totally wrecked, I couldn't drive.
But it got better, ds started to sleep.

If you have family, get them to help.if you were close to me, then is come and give you a break!

fates advice seems brilliant, worth giving it a try?!

FATE does give excellent advice! Her help has made my DDs sleeping issues far more tolerable although she is still not a great sleeper!

it sounds bloody tough. poor you.

have a look at www.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nz

I found it v helpful. My DD had silent reflux. screamed a Lot. so you have my sympathies.

Babyonboob DD had bad excema and suspected infant acne but that went within a fortnight. Is there likely to be a link?

I've gone dairy, wheat & citrus free & have been using Dr. Browns bottles as it was iinitially thought that my breastfeeding was the problem.

I asked the GP about a prescribed milk (seeing as no hosp appointmt yet) he didn't know anything about it.

She kind of settles in the car seat but I got told off by the osteo for doing this. I have a debilitating spinal condition which restricts my mobility which isnt helping me or her. She refuses to bend to even go in the vibrating bouncy chair but I completely appreciate what you're saying so will try this with the car seat I think.

The HV's (I've only managed to see 2 in the 14 weeks due to their preference by their own admission to complete paperwork in the office) both said I should be keeping her topped up with food because of the jaundice she had initially.

Thankyou for your productive & positive posts to those of you that have said supportive & most appreciated kind words.

The milk is neocate. I've heard of GPs not wanting to prescribe it as it is v expensive, but it might be worth pushing for a two week trial, that would be long enough to see if it made a difference.

Also, maybe try reading about the fodmap diet. I followed that and it made a difference, particularly cutting onions, garlic and broccoli, which I was having pretty much every day!

Hi OP you sound to be having a really tough time of it. Its not easy having a baby with reflux, nor one who screams all the time, there's no wonder you are struggling. Have some .

I want to say gently that I agree with FATEdestiny it sounds like she may be being overfed. 6oz every hour is an enormous amount for any baby & this is likely why she is bringing so much back up. Sure this can be due to reflux - acid burning the eosophagus is soothed by sucking, hence the desire to eat frequently (little & often is generally better fir reflux babies) - but could you also be misinterpreting her tired signs & feeding her when she actually needs to sleep?

I was guilty of doing this exact same thing with my ds (now 4) when he was a baby. He fed every 1.5hrs at one stage & he also had reflux & cmpi. With hindsight I realise I often misinterpreted his tired signs as hunger (very easy to do) & I do wonder how much I contributed to his reflux by overfilling him.

I have been much more careful this time to pay attention to tired signs & try to settle dd (also 14wks) by other means, not feeding before 2.5hrs.

For comparison's sake she is currently having feeds of approx 4-5oz every 4hrs (on demand) in the day & feeds 1-2 times at night. She takes a total of around 25 oz in 24hrs. She still has a touch of reflux but it is nothing like her brother was.

WRT your concern about keeping your dd topped up with food because of the jaundice she had as a newborn, that shouldn't really be an issue/needed now. My dd had to have light therapy for jaundice & had to be tube fed for a few days as failure to thrive. On leaving hospital advice was to feed 3 hourly until jaundice gone & birth weight regained, then feed on demand. Perhaps seek some reassurance from your gp on that if it will put your mind at rest.

I understand your desperation to settle her when she cries, but I would urge you to give FATE's advice a try & stretch out that feeding time. Definitely keep the dummy for the time being - it is by no means a subsitute for mummy but another means to help her settle. I see you have mobility issues - can you manage to get out for a walk in the pram & if you do will she sleep? This always makes me feel so much better if mine are unsettled & they always nod off. I think if you can space out the feeds a little bit more she will actually start to take more milk on board, throw up less & be less uncomfortable.

Finally if this doesn't help, persist in going back to the dr again & again until they do something. It annoys the hell out of me how so many health professionals know so little about reflux/cows milk intolerance or how to deal with it.

If she's mix fed,is there any point you cutting out dairy until she's on prescription formula (we're on nutragimen here) if theres the possibility of cows milk allergy as most formulae are cows milk based?

Just saying my DS got no relief from his symptoms until then, he was similar, but no where near to your extreme.

Keep the dummy, worry about that later.

Absolutely no point breakfast if she is having regular formula. To trial dairy intolerance she needs to be 100% dairy free.

One further thing op - re HV - are they aware of your current situation? In my area if I call the HV to say I am struggling they will gladly do a home visit. Or they have a drop in service weekly at my local childrens centre where I can always get to see someone. Are either of these an option open to you where you are?

I have a 5 and a half month old baby with reflux and wanted to say your post resonates a lot with my experience and feelings. I spent years dreaming about being a mum, but this is a million times harder than I could ever have imagined. I still have difficult days, but it's much better than it was even just a month ago. Your baby's reflux should improve as he gets older and I read somewhere that it peaks at around 4 months.
I found the dummy really really helps my baby's reflux, and I let him have it all the time whenever he wants it. I don't regret this, as I know it makes him happier and helps him to sleep. The sucking actually helps move everything back towards the stomach, keeping reflux at bay.
Crying also makes reflux worse, so doing whatever is required to comfort your baby might help keep baby more settled.
Good luck!

Ok, so in a nutshell...

Bypassed the referral system & am seeing a gastro peadiateic this week. Managed to sleep for a total of 3 hours last night so progress is being made.

Thankyou to each of you for your kind, supportive & productive advice. I couldn'tbring myself to say it through the tears as I posted originally but I was crying so much as I was so overwhelmed by the time you have given me.

I know at times MN can be so bitchy but this thread really has bought out the best of the absolute majority of posters who gave up their time to help me, a complete stranger.

DD is comfier & improving by the day. The atmosphere at home is easier & I'm now starting to enjoy her. I can't thank you enough.

Xxxx

hooray for sleep!

Give her the dummy! Both of mine had their until 18 months probably the last 6 months of that just purely for bed/sleep times then went cold turkey. We replaced the dummy with a blankie toy and reassurance. I think we may have had it easy with them but there wasn't a big hooha at all when they gave it up.

Ah just caught up with the reflux issue, even more reason to make life as comfortable and easy as possible for you and your baby.

Oh bless you! Sleep is wonderful isn't it!

So pleased to hear things are on the up

More recent update:

A total of 5.5 hours overnight!!!! AND she has today slept for the 1st time in 12 weeks!!!