good start with CC but had bad night last night - any advice please?

[Lucy1977]

Hi

I was following the Controlled crying thread and got some good advice how to go about CC.

We started it on Saturday night and we've also done away with the dummies at the same time. We were doing well with the CC and Mon night DD (8months) slept thru from 7.30ish to 7am ish. Last night however she seemed to have a bit of a temp (not fever high but 1 deg higher than normal for her) so I gave her calpol and she seemed irritable. Put her down to bed but my instinct told me not to do the CC so I fed her to sleep then put her down and she slept til 4.30 when she was up on all fours in her cot. She was wide awake and I just thought it was going to take a looong time doing the CC at this hour and also didn't think she'd go to sleep very quickly so again I fed her and after about 20 mins she was falling asleep but when I put her in her cot she was wide awake but I just said night night and left the room. I could hear her chatting away to her soft toy and rolling around but 15 mins later I could hear she was asleep. Then she woke at 6.45am and again was wide awake and so I got her up then.

At the beginning of the CC I felt really good, felt like we were doing something positive about DD awful sleep habits (I was up 3-4 times after 2am every night) but now I'm feeling like I'm giving in and questionning my motherly instinct of when to apply it and when not. I presume I should be more consistent?

When DD appeared wide awake during the night should I have done the CC even if it took an hour or more for her to go to sleep? Is it also a matter of teaching her that night time is for sleeping not just how to teach her how to settle herself?

Thanks for any advice you can give

Lucy

fwiw I think it sounds like she did well last night. I'm not an expert in cc but we did it with dd when she was 12 weeks old with great results. She continued to wake up for feeds but would fall asleep again really quickly. At 9 months she was still waking for a feed at 4am ish. At this point I switched the baby monitor off, I could hear her if she really bellowed but didn't hear if she was just snuffling around/chatting to toys etc I quickly discovered that she was very able to settle herself down when she woke up without me going in and feeding her.

I think it's down to what you want out of cc, for me I was keen that she learned to fall asleep by herself. Chatting to herself for 15 mins or so before she goes to sleep is quite normal I think.

Thanks PY

For us, we wanted to use CC to get DD to settle herself without the need for a dummy and to be able to settle herself to sleep in general and for her not to need a breastfeed to get to sleep. Since starting the CC it appears that DD has deeper sleep and for longer than when she was reliant on her dummy (typically put her to bed at 7-8ish with dummy and she would cry for it approx 2-3 times before midnight whereas since removing dummy usually sleeps from 7/7.30 to 2/4 without stirring)

I agree that she did well to chatter to toys then go back to sleep. I can't helpe but feel I took two steps back though by feeding her at 4.30. She just seemed so awake that I thought if I did CC it would take her ages to get to sleep but I suppose really I should just have done it because 4.30 isn't get up time and I don't think she would've been actually hungry it was probably more of a comfort thing.

So, tonight if she wakes before 6am I'm not going to feed her no matter how awake she seems (this is the only night of the week this week where I can really give this a go).

Ozharry'smum - how's your CC going?

Thanks
Lucy

As a 'veteran' of CC, I don't think it's appropriate if the child is at all unwell, so I think you ought to go back to your usual way of soothing - though without the dummy - until you are certain she is well, and only then start over again with the CC. Sorry! Hopefully this will only mean that you have another night or two of settling before you can start again.

Definitely, once you have cold-turkeyed the dummy don't go back to it.

You know about being boring at night, and not switching on the light or saying anything beyond something along the lines of "Shhhh, time to sleep."? Letting her get on with it, in her own way, even if it means she chats to her toys, is absolutely fine - and, IMO, better than having her screaming her head off and you listening in distress.

Thanks PC.

Yes I'm certain I don't want to give her the dummy again, we kept one "just in case" but I think now I'll bin that one too. It'll be less temptation for MIL tomorrow night when she babysits for the first time!

Yes I am more than happy for DD to lay and chat to her toy and she's obviously calm and then went to sleep which is great. I am questionning why I fed her at 4.30 but really I think that she was quite hyper on her all fours that if I had just lay her down and shhh shh she would have got hysterical (also because I had to lift her then turn her to lay her down she would've thought I was going to pick up her anyway so if I had just lay her down she would've got upset whereas when I do the CC if she's just laying in her cot crying I just pat her tum/chest and says shhh-shhh night night).

How long did you have to do CC for until you got from it what you wanted?

Thanks

Why do you have to turn her over? If she's on all fours and you want to lay her down, just gently lift her legs out from under her, then her arms, and she'll lie on her tummy. But, in any case, I do think that as little interference from you as possible is better, especially as getting on all fours and rocking is some babies' way of soothing themselves. Also, sometime in the next months she will learn to pull herself up to standing in the cot at night, and that will almost inevitably lead to broken nights again as she won't know how to sit down again. The only way to deal with that, IME, is to tough it out - eventually she will learn to sit down again, but if in the meantime you go to her and 'help' her to sit, then you will have to go through the whole learning to settle herself process over again.

I don't recall how long it took us - quite a long time, about 3w I think. Dd was 6m and we cold-turkeyed on dummy and nightfeeds at the same time, as she had shown herself capable of sleeping through by doing so frequently for a couple of months. In fact, she had been sleeping through more and more often, until the dummy started causing problems as it would fall out and she couldn't find it again. Big mistake to let a child sleep with a dummy, IMO!

I think the reason it took so long was because dd was still sharing our room, so she could see me and smell me (and Mummy=milk). When I started sleeping on the sofa in the living room, and stopped being the one to go to her at night, we saw an immediate improvement.

Generally, if you're consistent and the baby is in a room of their own, it takes much less time and you see improvement most nights - with of course the occasional back=sliding.

Hi PC

I need to turn her over usually because she's crawled round the cot and is facing the door but actually I will try tonight to do more like you say and just lift her legs out then roll her over (she wont sleep on her front). Or perhaps are you saying I should just straighten her out whether she's on back or front and let her settle herself on her back/front/side?

Thanks for the advice about when she stands in the cot. Did you do the going into her at intervals when she cried and if so did you shh shh or ???

Would it be ok for my DH to do the CC tonight? I've been doing it since sat night but would love DH to take some pressure off me at the moment.

Thanks
Lucy

Hi Lucy

We're doing CC at the moment with my 8 month old DD. We did a little a couple of months ago to get her to be able to settle herself at all, but now we're doing it full on to break the night feeding habit too. We have the support of a nursery nurse and I've also read Ferber's book.

The nursery nurse said that it doesn't matter what position DD is in when we go up, we should leave her to reposition herself (although when I've gone in to find her sitting/kneeling/standing I have put her back on her back).

Also agree with previous poster that you shouldn't do it if baby is ill, but that does mean that you'll have to start again. That said, having fed her last night, you should start again anyway, and yes, you must be consistent if you want it to work.

It's going great for us. Tonight is the first night for weeks that we haven't had to go back to her half an hour after she first went to sleep.

Hi Lucy,
We're going well with our cc, thanks for asking

Dont be discouraged, it is soooo hard to listen to then cry....especially at 4.30 in the morning!! Did you try the dream-feed I suggested in the other thread? It worked fantastically for us - Harrison used to wake every single night and in the first few nights of cc he woke still. I found it even harder doing cc at that time of night. As soon as I introduced it he started sleeping through properly. I found the other night that I can also do a dream-bum change!! He poohed while I was feeding him and I thought 'great now I'm in for it' But he slept right through the change!!!

There is absolutely no reason DH couldn't do a night (or three ) of cc to ease the pressure on you. I had to work 3 nights this week and my DP filled in for me with cc and all went well....Let DH help you, he's probably itching to

I also agree with the ill thing.....DS slept with me if he was unwell (needles etc) He hasn't been ill since we started cc (touch wood!) but if he were I'd take him into bed with me again.....
Hope this finds you all happy and well, keep in touch and let us know how it's going, Kate

P.S.
I've noticed odd times on my messages.....I am in Australia, (as you probably guessed from the "oz" part of ozharrysmum !!!) and not really writing at all times of the night.....It looks like I spend all night on the computer!!! lol
It's 3.32pm here now.....what does that make it??....9 hours ahead of you guys? Oh well,
WAKE UP AND TALK TO ME !!!!
Kidding, Good morning.....

hi Australia - I'm awake here in rainy Kent! But you don't want to talk to me (about controlled crying anyway) because I'm a passionate anti!

My family all come from Australia - planning to visit in a couple of years. Can't wait.

Hi curlew,
Each to thier own with cc.....I never argue the point....next baby we have may be totally different and not take to it as well as DS did....
I do totally reccomend a trip "Down Under" tho!!!! Have you been before? Where are your family?
Kate
P.S. Not a cloud in the sky today.....

It really doesn't matter which way the child faces in the cot - my two end up feet here, feet there, sideways, bent over forwards, bent over backwards...you think to yourself "How can s/he possibly sleep like that? Surely it's uncomfortable?" but children are so much more flexible than we are, and they rarely have hang-ups about sleeping with, say, their feet to the window.

It really is best as much as possible not to interfere with them, so let the child sleep however they want to. BTW, is she in a sleeping bag? That often helps a lot. Occasionally they get an arm or a leg stuck between the bars of the cot (not legs, though, if in a sleeping bag), and in that case I would go and help by releasing the limb and stroking a little if distressed, but otherwise I think you have to be tough and let them get themselves sorted by themselves. Including the standing up.

If you're still bfing it's a very good idea to get your dh to do some of the CC. When your dd sees you (or smells you) she anticipates a feed, and it makes it doubly hard for her to accept that you will leave the room. She doesn't expect that from your dh, so will find it easier to settle for him than for you. That's dh and my experience, anyway.

Dreamfeed is also a good idea. We kept the dreamfeeds going until about 7-8m, right through all the CC. I don't think it made any difference to the CC, but certainly made it easier for the LO to sleep through. After all, how much food does a 6mo actually eat during the day? I think it's a bit much to expect them to suddenly drop two or more feeds in one go. I didn't think it appropriate to drop the dreamfeed until the LO was on 3 good meals of solids, as well as all the other daytime bfs.

Hi there Kate - hope you had a better night last night (whenever that was for you!)
I've got family in Queensland, but my mother came from Melbourne. I've never been to Australia - my parents came to the UK in the late 50's so, somewhat to their surprise they had three pom children!
Kate - from still rainy Kent

Hi everyone

Busy day yesterday, didn't manage to get on the pc at all!
DD has been doing great! I still need to break some habits but I feel that we have definately achieved a couple of things ;
DD can settle herself to sleep
She doesn't appear to miss the dummies and now we have thrown them all away! (we kept one "just in case")
Our routine at the moment is bath/bf/bed. She usually semi falls asleep during bf but she's awake when she is put in the cot then I say night night, two kisses then leave and she doesn't cry now. Sometimes she sits up and then eventually cries but I just lay her down and leave and she doesn't cry. Will she eventually learn how to lay herself down?

She sleeps from 7ish to 5ish but she thirsty/hungry at this time so last two nights I've fed her at 5ish then put her down awake and I don't hear from her again until 8ish.

For us this is fantastic progress.

So, now I need to decide - does she really need the feed at 5ish? she seems very wide awake and her cries are very aggressive - not like a wee moan occasionally during the night when I don't even get into her because she's gone off.

OHM - yes I guessed you were in Oz with the time of your postings! We have tried the dreamfeed before but found DD woke even earlier and somehow it has never been a "dream" feed as she's always woken up!

PC - DD is 8 months old now (sorry if I've had a typo in a reply?) and is in a grobag. Like you say, it's not like she has blankets over her so it doesn't matter to me which way she is facing.

DH is going to do the CC tonight but I'm not sure if I should change our routine? DD always has a breastfeed before bed but this means that I have always been in to put her to bed (DH has carried her up and laid her down etc). So that I can go out occasionally and miss her bedtime should I stop this? Perhaps feed her earlier then she can go to DH and he can read a story etc? Hmm think we might try that thinking about it.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for all your support and I'd be interested to hear what you think.

Thanks
Lucy

& to 5 seems absolutely amazing for an 8 month old -and a vey long time to go without food. If I were you, I would'nt stop the 5.00 feed, I'm sure she's really hungry by then. She's still quite little - stick with the routine you've established and don't rock the boat! Remember, she'll be a different person next week. Well done on what you've achieved!

We did controlled comforting followed by cc for our ds and he sleeps fine now, but whenever he is ill and goes off his food, he will wake up in the night and we do pick him up. Then, when we know he's better, we use the cc again and it doesn't take very long to get back to sleeping through. He's been really ill the last week and has had a week of being picked up, so goodness knows how long it will take to kick in... I think there will always be lapses and the odd bad night here and there, but as long as they sleep through more often than not, you're on the right track!

Your daughter was not well CC will not work when not well just resume once feeling better.Hope she is feeling better soon Good Luck

Hi Lucy, it sounds to me like you are doing really well, that you can feed DD at 5 and then get her back down til 8 is fantastic....I'd not stop the feed, as curlew said it's a long time for a little one to go without. Especially as she has gotten used to having it. Give yourself a pat on the back!!
Hi curlew, you signed your second last post 'Kate - from still raint Kent' Are you another Kate or have I misread it? As for last night, DS has been waking at almost exactly 4.30 the last couple and last night he was wide awake and it took 45 mins to get him back to sleep again - little bugger......I think (hope) this is just a temporary thing tho, he usually just murmers to himself for a minute or two and drops off again....otherwise, all is well.
I am a Queensland girl......IMO, No where in the world compares and you'll have a ball when you visit your family Have you heard the slogan "beautiful one day, perfect the next"? That's us.....We're expecting a warm 35 degrees celcius here today and it is sunny, sunny, sunny......still raining there? lol
Have a great day everyone (or night!!!)

Hope everybody had good nights - it's ironic, isn't it that after ages of trying to get them to sleep, I am shortly going to go into battle to get my 10 year old to get up! And I understand from the owners of teenagers that it gets even worse!

Kate - yes, I'm a Kate too. My father was born in Queensland and my uncle, aunt and cousins live in Cooktown. I am trying to remember the name of the town where my father was born, but I'm having a blank moment.

Hi all,
How'd everyone go last night? My little angel continued his latest trend of waking at 4.30 on the dot....this time didn't drop off 'til 5.20, then up again at 6.35.....zzzzzz I'm falling asleep on the keyboard!!!!
Hope everyone else is doing ok,
Kate

Hi Kate and everyone

I knew I had typed too soon when I said DD was going 7-5 then down til 8. For the past few nights it's been 7-3.30 on the dot then back down til 7. I am fine with her waking once at this age as I appreciate she's still only small. She's eating a good amount of nutritious homemade meals and snacks and so I'm wondering if I should do the CC at the 3.30 waking. She is always crawling round the cot at 3.30 and seems so wide awake and she does take about 10 min bf (she's very quick during the day as well).

Hmm might just keep things as they are until after her jabs on Monday, we've got a really busy weekend with family staying.

Good to hear your progress Kate. Are you feeding DS when he wakes at 4.30?

Lucy

Hi Lucy, (and everyone else of course)
No, I'm not feeding him but his waking is becoming so clockwork that I'm tempted to give up the dreamfeed and just feed him at 4.30 as he is soooo awake....(that way at least I don't have to stay up later to do the dreamfeed - if I want to go to bed at 8pm, I can!) But then I worry that if I give up the dreamfeed all I will accomplish is he will wake earlier than 4.30. Before cc he only took 40 mins or so to feed and get back down. I just don't know......I guess I'm afraid if I do anything at all it will ruin the progress we've already made so I'm kinda just putting up with it. What do you think? (To be honest at that time of morning I just feel like taking him back to bed with me and letting him doze off when ever he feels like it....that'd be naughty.....wouldn't it?)
...........
I think I need you guys to keep me strong.....
Hope all goes well for you tonight,
Kate

Yay.....DS slept 7-7 again last night
No need for action.....til next time!
How's everyone else going?
Kate

Hi kate

You're little boy did fantastically last night - you must feel great with the good sleep yourself!?
WHen your wee one gets/got up do you just play with him then? If my DD is really awake around 3.30 she is crawling about and trying to climb everywhere so even taking her into bed wouldn't help (which is why I've been bf'g as it zonks her out ).

Last night I woke up at 3.15 from a nightmare and went to get some water then I heard the pipes clattering as the central heating was coming on (it's been getting chilly here during the night). So I turned the thermostat down and DD didn't wake at 3.30 she woke at 6! Maybe it's been the pipes waking her (her room is next to airing cupboard). Might be a one off but I'm going to turn it down before I go to bed to see if it helps DD sleep til 6 again.

She went down at 7 but poor soul did a loud burp and brought some food up so I changed her sleeping bag and she was wide awake so gave her quick bf then put in cot awake, had a 1 min cry then off to sleep.

I've noticed that she is sleeping on her front now? She's never settled on her front before. Maybe this is how she comforts herself to sleep? My wee sis always slept like that.

How's things today Kate?

Lucy

Hi Lucy,
He slept 7-7 again!!!Yay.
I found, as soon as we started cc DS started sleeping on his front too.....must be a comfort thing. Also I guess he was starting to roll over a lot more at the same time too.
Yes I am feeling better too, more sleep etc. Have you been sleeping better now DD is sleeping better? No, when he woke I just checked (changed) his nappy and continued cc. I still do the dreamfeeds tho so I was sure he'd be ok for a feed. Hope all is well with you guys, Kate & Harrison