Catnappers and 'bad sleepers' support thread

[AwesomeSuperTasty]

This is inspired by this napping thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/2123505-Any-advice-for-daytime-naps A user commented that they wanted to start a catnapping thread, but seeing as no one did, I thought I might start a 'support group' for all parents of catnapping babies and generally poor sleepers. (I hope the user who prompted this thought will come forward to claim the credit!)

Anyway, it's really just a place to vent and maybe share experiences.

So, I will start. My 7 month old son still catnaps 30 mins at a time, something he allegedly should have grown out of. He also wakes every 90 minutes at night, and wakes up at 5.30 in the mornings. He self settles to sleep and has an early bed time but can't resettle at night. Basically, since he was born, I've not slept longer than 2 hours at a stretch. I'm sure I'm pretty exhausted but stopped registering it.

I do have some questions for anyone who'd like to share.

• If you have an older catnapping baby, how long does she/he go between naps?

-Has anyone managed to sucessfully implement some kind of a napping schedule, for babies who sleep only 30 mins?

And please don't tell me to get a sling...or co-sleep

Your night sounds a lot like mine, mrsmugoo!

However, despite the four wakings it was the best night of sleep in ages so does look like that late afternoon nap is unnecessary.

Today - only a catnap at 8.00 and a refused pram and cot nap at 11, despite tired signs. Gave up and now DS is playing in his travel cot, babbling away and happy as anything. If we get another nap during the day at all, it will be quite something.

Definitelysometime- screaming. Yes, I had a theory that DS was full of some kind of nervous energy that he had to get rid of. He was also very 'colicky' as a newborn.

Awesome - I'm going to reassess the late nap today and only put him down if he's obviously really tired.

It's so wearing surviving on such little sleep. I'm now sooo tired that it's actually stopping me sleeping as I get so fixated on clock watching all night and it winds me up. Awake from 2-6 last night FFS!

Right now I'd sell my Nan to get 3 or 4 hours unbroken sleep!

I'm with you on the lack of sleep, mrsmugoo!
Awake 2-6 is just crushing!

The only good thing about the lack of sleep is that you have an excuse to eat loads of chocolate! Tiredness produces sugar cravings, or so my excuse goes :)

Hi all. Catnapping in full force today but night was good. Asleep by eight, fed at 11 and then woke at five and then back down til six. Toddler woke at five tho. Dd did go to sleep on her own in the parked buggy so that was great.

First nap of the day is the easiest to get and then it gets progressively harder!

Sleep deprivation is so hard. When I was 7/8 months pregnant with DD, DS decided to wake for 3/4 hours every single night for six weeks. And I remember sobbing in the kitchen through tiredness when DS was about 4 months and went through the sleep regression. This time I have sleep deprivation rage! Poor DH gets the brunt of it!

Sleep from 11-5 sounds heavenly!

I just got excited because DS had been asleep for 45 minutes....of course he's now awake!

It was!! 45 mins is good! I think your sleeping vibes have rubbed off on DD and she has been down for an hour and 15. Woot!! Not in her cot though but in the bouncy chair with white noise on.

I'm going to come back to this and have a proper read...when I have the energy

Have tried a new tactic - seeing as the late 4th nap was almost always being refused leading to a 4 hour wake time til bed I've done a later 3rd nap today instead to reduce the last wake time.

I really wanted him to get that extra sleep (even if it was only half an hour) but it's just such a battle every time.

Exhausted doesn't even cover how I feel. I'm so tired I actually feel drunk pretty much all the time, obviously without the pleasant buzz, just the shitty fuzz-brained hangover sensation.

Up at 1030/2/330-430 and for the day at 620. Napped from 830-915 then 11-1220 (with 2 wake ups) and been awake since. He's also refused EVERY bottle today, meaning he's had a grand total of 2oz since 4am. He has, however, here's through two huge bowls of baby porridge, 2 fruit pots, 1 baby rice pot, 1 Ella's pouch, 1/2 banana and a full baby pot of chicken/veg. Did I mention that DS is so suspicious of us putting his loathed milk in his food that he will only eat food from containers when he can physically see the contents. He refuses point blank to eat anything homemade.

Am not just shattered but completely skint.

A late third nap has unexpectedly produced a 1.5 hour nap - I'm bowled over!

Tonight I'm going to try waking him for a feed 2 hours after he goes down to see if he'll do a longer stretch later in the night. At this point I have nothing to lose!

Just catching up, from the gym!

Pickle - that's great going with the solids! Sounds like a decent amount to me,

Well don't mrsmugoo! Also, do you have a secret as to how to choose the time that your baby naps? I'm stumped as to when to put DS down - the morning wake time is the only one I get right, all others are a matter of luck. I watch for sleepy signs, but that's pretty much a lost cause.

To be honest I've stopped stressing about it. I was so nervous about him being overtired that a lot of the time I think I was trying to put him down before he was tired. So many people told me that by the time they are doing tired signs they are already too far gone but I'm not sure this is the case for me. I was militantly trying to make him go to sleep after 1.5 hours but he just want tired.

This afternoon he had a 3 hour wake time and it was his best ever nap. Who knows - I've given up trying to second guess!

Just wanted to say there is hope. My catnapper started taking 2-3hr nap when she started walking and dropped to one after lunch nap. She self-settled long before that so I don't think that is the solution. IMO it's just a developmental thing.

Can't remember the exact age (she's 2 now and still lives her long nap) but it was about 11months old I think and quite sudden.

Good luck tonight everyone.

Awesome , how old is your DS again? There is a rough guide to naps which I think someone linked to on here, but honestly it's so individual I don't think you can easily follow someone else's schedule.

With DS I followed his sleepy times and do with dd too - she yawns so I spring into action when she does. Otherwise, if you know how long your DS can be up between wake up and first nap then it's a good guess as to how long he can be up between naps. I do tend to find the first nap is needed earlier than the others, say, after an hour rather than an hour 15, of course, this doesn't take into account how long it takes for them to go to sleep!

What is so exhausting about catnappers is that instead of 2 or 3 naps a day, you end up needing 5 or 6 which is tiring for all concerned!

Off to bed in a minute. Bon chance all!

Great to hear that tarka-am living in hope! Ds very whiny today, think more teeth might be coming. Only had 2 x 40 min naps and a car nap.

Hi... I have a semi-catnapper and right now a horrible night sleeper.

DS is 6 months and used to catnap exactly 35mins. about 3 weeks ago we managed to extend his morning nap using the wake-to-sleep method and helping him to transition between sleep cycles. (I sat by cot bouncing the mattress and playing white noise at the 35min wakeup point). It is possible that this would also work for his later naps (which are generally still 35 mins) but I haven't had the energy to try the strategy twice in one day! He now sleeps 90mins in the morning most of the time.

DS naps in his cot, and I used to put him down drowsy, and he would drop off after 10-15 mins. However, since he learned to roll, he now rolls about like a mad thing and now also tries to crawl, so I have to rock him until virtually asleep, play white noise then pat his bum rhythmically until he drops off. This generally takes about 10mins for naps, but weirdly for bedtime and night waking can take up to an hour.
If I do nothing he rolls and crawls endlessly until eventually he is fully awake but still tired and screaming.

My aim is to be able to put him down awake and him self settle, and to move from 2 afternoon catnaps to one solid proper nap.

Omg I should be going to sleep but was distracted by the Germany game (DH is German).

Also mrsmugoo, I spotted a typo, I meant to say well done instead of 'well don't', oops.

DS is seven months, Popalina. I follwed a 2 to 2.5 hour wake time until now but this week it's all over the map.

Ellie, how long did you do the wake to sleep for? Is it something you have to do over a few weeks, persistently? I tried it but DS doesn't really wake up gradually, his eyes just pop open at 30 mins and if he sees me by the cot, it's game over, he's laughing and ready to play.

Marking my spot. DD is 17 weeks and whilst she is usually a pretty good night time sleeper (usually wakes 2/3 times but doesn't cry or want feeding, just her dummy!) her daytime naps are never more than 45 minutes long. She can only stay awake for 2 hours at a time and depending on what time she wakes up in the morning (any time between 6 and 7.30) she either fits in 3 or 4 naps. My main problem is that I like to have her asleep by 7pm, so can't let here sleep past 5 as she won't go down, but if her last nap ends before 3pm she wants to nap again and I either end up letting her doze for 20 minutes and then struggle to get her off to sleep, or try to keep her awake and end up with a screaming overtired baby at bedtime. When she does go down in the evening she will sleep for a good 3 hours without a peep, so she obviously needs the sleep, no point in pushing bedtime later, plus I like having a bit of the evening to myself so I can chill out and eat my dinner.

Just to add insult to injury I'm doing everything on my own at the moment as my husband is currently in Afghanistan until October. I don't have any family that can help nearby, so am essentially. Lone parent for the time being and I'm starting to struggle

Frankel I don't have anything useful to say, but much sympathy, doing it on your own must be hard.

awesome I did it for about 2 weeks. Sometimes in those two weeks he would have slept through without my help though. Mine also wants to play - I crouch on the floor so he can't see me! (Ridiculous I know!!)
The idea is that you arouse them slightly 10 mins before they wake anyway, just enough to restart a new sleep cycle, then help them through the transition. For mine 23mins after falling asleep was the golden moment.
Try reading this for more information: www.whattoexpect.com/forums/august-2010-babies/archives/ladies-please-try-this-if-baby-is-having-sleep-or-nap-issues.html?page=1

Frankel check out this link, lots of good info for you. Your baby is still very young, please don't expect much from her. She's growing so much and likely going through a sleep regression.

Ladies, read this articles

Omg Frankel, I can only imagine how tough it is on your own! With a catnapper you never get a break. With the 3pm naps can you make the bedtime earlier? I remember 16-17 weeks DS was all over the place with morning wake ups - if he went to sleep at 6pm he would wake up at 7 or even 8am. Back then, early bedtime did not mean early wake up. Six months onwards, he's a regular early water whatever the bedtime.

Also what roar said, this is a classic sleep regression age!
Do you have any playgroups, baby groups etc near you? I think when they start to be interested in the world and you can take them almost anywhere - shops, parks etc.
Until my DS was about that age, I was very house bound, unless it was to go for a walk to get him to nap. But around 4 months I started taking him on errands, and it was all much more manageable and enjoyable despite the crappy naps.

Does your dd sleep in the pram?

Hi, can I join? My DS is 17 weeks old and he is a good night sleeper, but day time naps are Not.Going.Well. He can do anywhere between 2-3hours awake but generally has a screaming meltdown pre nap during which he needs to be held and shushed and patted he will fall asleep in my arms and I have to stay standing for the first 10mins (if I sit down he starts to cry again) he can then sleep on me for 1-2hrs, if I try and put him down his eyes ping open and the crying starts instantly. I sometimes resort to feeding to sleep (which is what we do at night), but again, when I try and put him down he cries. I have on occasion managed to put him down and he has stayed asleep in his bed for 15mins-1hr. I have analysed the situation over and over again but can't consistently repeat it.

I know I'm very lucky with the nighttime sleeping so can't complain too much, but my house is a mess because I don't have any time to myself in the day to eat breakfast/lunch/clean the bathroom and come evening time I'm a complete zombie. I don't understand why he won't be put down for daytime naps but goes down like a dream at night. Oh, and he won't sleep in the pram anymore, just screams blue murder, it's out in the carrier-facing out so he can see everything or not at all.

I think I need to bite the bullet and implement some sort of regime, but I know it will get worse before it gets better and I don't know where to start!