B/Feeding through the night @ 10 months! Drained - literally!

[naturemum]

MY beautiful b/f son of 10 months old has not yet slept through the night. I took to co-sleeping after the birth as found this much more convenient for night feeds. From about 7 1/2 months he starts the night in his cot and then comes in with me when he wakes up. This is usually between 11-12 depending on when we goes to bed.

However, 9/10 nights he wakes up 3 times. Yesterday for example we were up at 6.30am - he when back to bed at 10 for 1 and half and then I couldn't get him to sleep for the rest of the day!! Bed at 7pm without any problems, awake 45 mins later as usual and then slept until 11. Then awake at 1, 2, 4.30 and 6.30. I am nursing him back to sleep. This is for my sake and also for the sake of DS who works most evenings and doesn't get to bed until 1am.

I wake up feeling absolutely drained (literally - after feeding all night!). Please help me see clearly on what needs to be done to get this little darling to sleep through. (In 10 months he has slept 8 hours twice)

I also find that he is not particularly hungry for his breakfast most mornings - surprise, suprise.

Over to you mumsnetters....

Getting him to sleep always involves either feeding or an exhausting amount of rocking and ssshhing. Or a walk with the pram but even that has become difficult as he is often too busy being nosy.

Also, his diet during the day is pretty good. 3 meals a day and healthy organic diet -vits and protein. B/feed him twice during the day - mid-morning and afternoon.

Not really helpful I know but ds and I coslept and he always had a couple of night feeds until I weaned him at 24 months. He is still a poor sleeper at 5. dd (10months) who also co sleeps with me sleeps through most nights.

He is not feeding because he is hungry, he loves the comfort of a bfeed. Some babies need more comfort than others.

You say you are doing this for the sake of your dh, what about you and your son?

Sorry to be harsh naturemum, but this carry on is not healthy for you or your baby. You BOTH need to sleep. You have got into bad habits and they are hard to break. You are going to have to explain to your dh that you need to sleep and that you are going to reduce the night feeding until ds can go through the night without a feed. At 10 months he is more than physically capeable of this. I suspect that he uses you as a way go get back to sleep and he has to learn to do this himself.
I sugest that you reduce the night time feeds over the next week until he doesn't have anymore. He WILL complain bitterly and it will take some resolve on your part, but soon you will both be benefiting from having had sleep.

Remember the longer you let this go on the harder it will be to stop. He is perfectly able to sleep through the night and get himself back to sleep again when he stirs. It won't be cruel to let him cry. It would be cruel on you both to keep on being so sleep deprived. Keep remembering that and best of luck .

Morning naturemum - your post could have been me when my son was aged 10 months (or in fact 18 months, or even recently until he went into his own bed )

First of all it is really normal for b/f co-sleeping babies to do this, and does not mean there is anything wrong with your son or the way you are caring for him. There is no need to change things if you are happy with feeding him in the night like this. However you sound as if you are becoming exhausted. I have two strategies to suggest - number 1, grit your teeth and stick it out. It will get better, worse, better, worse and eventually cease to be a problem. To do this you ideally need a supportive partner, a good supply of reassuring and encouraging books such as Dr Sears, Three in a Bed, and Our Babies Ourselves, and a sense of humour. You also need to go to bed EARLY, and nap whenever you can during the day.

The second option involves a gentle type of night weaning. I have not done it myself (too lazy, ultimately, you have to be fairly committed and consistent) but have two links and a book for you to try.

Changing the Sleep Pattern in the Family Bed - this is not recommended for babies under a year but could give you some advice - also, your baby will be a year old before you know it

Good old Dr Sears - he says "If you resent it, change it", and offers 12 night time alternatives to breastfeeding

and finally The No Cry Sleep Solution , a very gentle child-centred approach which works for b/f and co-sleeping babies.

It also occurred to me that you may be feeling like the odd one out among your friends etc. I found La Leche League meetings very helpful as many other people there will be making the same parenting choices as you, and struggling with the same problems. Also - DO NOT ASK YOUR HV FOR ADVICE. Unless you KNOW she is very sympathetic to lentil weaving types. Health professionals do not usually respect your choices if they involve co-sleeping and feeding to sleep rather than cry it out , and can leave you feeling very undermined and lacking in confidence

I hope any of this helps. Let us know how you get on, please.

Cross posts with kittywits - I really disagree with what you are saying. It is good to give our babies comfort when they ask for it - not a "bad habit". These hardline ideas about leaving a baby to cry in the night, because they need to learn to sleep through from a young age, are really antediluvian and not advised by child psychologists or by children's charities - only certain misguided parenting gurus

Franny, you and I will clearly never agree on this. I have never left any of my babies to cry endlessly. I have co slept with them for the first 3 months of their lives.

It is my opnion that depriving both yourself and your baby/ child of sleep in the name of co sleeping, non crying is not healthy for anyone involved. In order to function, develop and actually just have a decent life we NEED sleep. A baby especially needs this in order to rest,assimilate things experienced and to able to be stimulted by their environment in a rested rather than sleep deprived, fractious an non recptive state.
It is my opinion that we need sleep to function. Naturemum is clearly not getting enough and nor is her Ds.

morning naturemum just wanted to say your situation is very similar to mine. dd2 is 9 months and starts the night in her cot (for the past two weeks ) and then when she wakes up co sleeps and feeds till morning. tbh I don't know when she comes in with us or how many times she feeds, I just doze through the lot.
I am happy with this situation at the moment. As far as i am concerned dd2 needs the comfort and/or the nutrition and I am happy to give it to her for as long as I can stand the pace . one difference is that dd2 does not take too much in the way of solid food during the day, though I am trying to persuade her to take more
Good advice from Franny. I can also recommend the No Cry Sleep Solution, which is a very gentle method but very practical - it may help, for example, to ensure that your baby is getting enough sleep/food during the day. also, for the short term can you try to catch up with sleep during the da or at the w/ends? or try going to bed very early for a few nights (say around 8pm?) which mights help you over this low point.
hth. remember that giving your baby comfort is not a bad habit but an act of love

I COMPLETELY agree with FrannyandZooey on this one.

My DS is nearly 11 months and we've been co-sleeping since he was a week old. We've gone through good and bad phases. Up until recently he was nursing ALL NIGHT. I would wake up with completely drained boobs and giant bags under my eyes.

But lately (and i'm probably jinxing it my saying this!) when he stirs during the night he isn't automatically turning to me to nurse. This morning I woke up completely soaked with milk because he hadn't nursed in hours.

It will get better. But it could be worse. I know babies who do this and they sleep in their own cot. At least you are right there with him and don't have to get out of bed.

this link I found to be really good.

One tip, I find that if i geve DS a bit of porridge right before bed that seems to help a bit.

No one has implied that you shouldn't comfort your baby, what a bizarre implication!! If it suits you to sleep with your baby and feed them all night then that's fine.( don't understand it though, each to their own)

There is a big, big difference between comforting and feeling you have to go without sleepnight after night because your baby wakes up crying. The mother's needs are very important. You cannot be the mother you want to be if you are exhausted and probably resentful.

I personally don't like the school of thought that advocates playing to the child's every whim and fancy. I believe it's asking for trouble. Parenting is about balancing the needs of both parent and child.

Kittywits you have summed it up - you don't understand it. I don't like your assertions that people who co-sleep and breastfeed are "depriving" their babies of sleep or that babies need to sleep through the night for their health and development. I personally believe that babies are programmed to do what is best for their health and development, and the problems occur when we start to interfere with that natural process for our own convenience. It is normal and healthy for babies to sleep for short periods interspersed with feeding or whatever sort of comfort they like to get back to sleep again. The problem occurs when we expect or insist that they conform to our adult sleep patterns without allowing their bodies time to mature so that they are able to do this.

I hope you find the links and advice here helpful naturemum and please rest assured that co-sleeping and b/fing will not harm your son's development or health if you choose to continue with it. My own son did not learn to sleep through the night until he was nearly 3, and he is a happy, bright and confident boy, who is tall and healthy.

Franny, the woman is exhausted.

To be honest I get the feeling that you are trying to steer her in a direction that she might not want to be in.
This isn't an either or situation. Is your opinion that for the sake of a baby who wants to stay awake all night, the poor exhausted mother should put up with this otherwise she is interfering with her child's natural rhythms? That must mean that she is also uncaring and never comforts her child either, selfishly wanting some sleep. We could always simply let our babies and children completlely dictate how we do everything in our lives. I suspect that that happenes alot anyway.
Personally I need sleep to function. I cannot afford to loose it. I cannot be an effcient and energetic mother if I am exhausted. Perhaps there are pepople out there who can be awake all night, parent numerous children during the day and then be awake again all night.
Hats off to them and I would love for them to help me to do that too.
If I had to do that I'd need prozac.

kittywits - read my link.

FAZ and I are just trying to show you some support. We've been through it (are going through it now!). Yes, it's hard. But so are a lot of things to do with babies.

(you = naturemum)

No kittywits, I think you are the one who has the "my way or the highway" attitude. I am guessing from naturemum's post and information she has given about her parenting style, that she is not going to feel comfortable leaving her baby to cry. (it was you kittywits who said "It won't be cruel to let him cry. It would be cruel on you both to keep on being so sleep deprived"). It is also you who have told her that her baby will be harmed if she does not stop co-sleeping

"depriving both yourself and your baby/ child of sleep in the name of co sleeping, non crying is not healthy for anyone involved. In order to function, develop and actually just have a decent life we NEED sleep."

I have offered naturemum several different strategies to try to get a better night's sleep. I am sure she will pick the one that is best for her - I think there is only one person on this thread who is trying to "steer her in a direction that she might not want to be in" and it is not me.

Apologies for this discussion heading away from your OP, naturemum. Please ask if I can give you any more information about any of the ideas I have mentioned. Otherwise, I'll look back to see how you are getting on, but not comment further unless you ask me to - I've got no desire to let this become the sort of long and protracted personal argument that kittywits seems to like to get embroiled in.

naturemum, i breastfed my ds til 13mths but night feeding stopped at 8mths, i was too tired and had my dd to contend with as wlel in the daytime.
i dont believe in nursing back to sleep. i'm sorry some here are advocates of it but you are a mum who has a busy life and needs rest to cope with the demands of the day.
with my ds his last ngiht feed was 11pm or so and then that was it, it would wake around 3 or sometimes 5 i t varied but it was just a plain no from me and he got a cuddle and settled back to sleep. and i admit one night he cried for about 35 mins, me and dh going in and out to soothe him and after that , that was it.
dropped the 11pm feed, bed at 7.30 slept til 7.30 frm about 8 1/2 mths / 9mths.
i continued feeding him til 13mths. i dont think i would have feed him this long if i was night feeding him, i 'd be a basket case.

so you have to decide whether u want to feed him in the night, if he is eating well in the day, getting feeds from you , then why do you think he nedds feeding in the night?

naturemum
at 10mths i think my ds had 3 feeds from me , morn 8am or so, 2pm and then 6.30pm, bed at 7.30. i didnt feed immediatly prior to bed.

i didn't co-sleep with ds, but did bf him through the night until he was 7 months. when he reached 7 mths, he was on 3 good meals a day and i started to resent the night time feeds - i mean he surely didn't need them ?! So i decided one day that i was going to let him cry it out (drastic action for me). Don't know if he read my thoughts, but he didn't wake for a feed that night - or any night after.

i think once they are on solids and consistenly eating 3 meals, then they don't need night feeds and are taking liberties - drastic action required. Hope some of the links below can help more with your 'drastic action'.

I couldn't cope with the constant nightfeeds from dd1 when she was 13 months so dh went to her with a bottle of water if she woke in the night, took 3 nights and she started to wake up less and then when she did wake up, we just gave her a bottle of water. Not a great solution cause she did continue to wake up and wasn't a good sleeper till she was 4 but it got me more sleep at the time

Do you know me then Franny? I think not. I was interested in the fact that your answer chose not to address many of the points I raised. Also I was interested as to whether it is at all relevent that your son is tall. Is this because you slept with him for a long time and is being tall a good thing and an indication of health?

Thank heavens that it seems I am not the only one who believes that sleep is actually quite important.

give over kitty, you started this sillyness, be an adult and quit it.
You did make it sound like the only way was to let him cry. I cannot do without sleep either at all but will also cannot let them cry, I beleive franny was pointing out ways that this could be achieved

Naturemum, I was having problems with DS waking still at 10 mths for feeds.

The thing was, it was such irregular waking and having PND, i needed to balance things a bit.

I decided I would comfort DS as much as needed in the night by laying with him, but, since he often didnt wake for a feed before 5am, I wasnt going to feed him before this time anymore. I spent the first night comforting him for hours and hours (without feeding) until about 1.30am. He then next woke at 6.30am iirc. I didnt much like having to do it, but i couldnt cope with the lack of sleep anymore and felt it was aggravating my PND more.

The next night he cried out for about a minute at 2am and went back to sleep before I got to him.

He has slept through ever since.

Hi naturemum, just wanted to let you know you are not alone. I can't offer any advice on CIO because I haven't much experience with it and I believe that that is probably the most common advice you would get from health visitors and in RL anyway.

It does sound like your ds is getting enough to eat, and developing nicely - all credit to you. His night wakiing sounds really exhausting and it seems that he needs the comfort from you. It could be teething, developmental milestones (has he just started to crawl, pull himself up, walk even?). I found with dd (who at her worst was waking 3 hours a night) that some nights she would go to sleep with nursing, other nights that would not work and I needed to wheel her down in a buggy. She might give me a bonus of a 3 hour stretch once in a while!

As Franny says, it will get better, then worse (and you get into another tail spin), then better, then one day, you realise ds has been sleeping through more often than not ...

Sleep is important for both you and ds, but so are ds' emotional needs for comfort. I am not saying you should prostrate yourself for ds' needs, but if I had mn or someone told me at 10 months that they had a similar baby and it got better (yes it will), that would have been such a relief to me to know that I did not not to CIO to gain some sanity.

If anything, trying out the non-CIO methods suggested by other mums here. It might work and even if they did not, they would buy yourself some time. The older ds gets, the closer he will get to being emotionally able to sleep through the night. In the end, I weaned dd at 17 months during a nursing strike, and she has been sleeping through since - though dd still needed help to fall asleep for another year after that.

It was a very drastic solution for me but that was my breaking point. I took a huge risk weaning if it did not work. And we still co-sleep happily.

Trinity, at no point have I been silly. Franny said she disagreed, fine, i wasn't going to say i disagreed with her. We all have different opinions. I am merely stating my opnions and given my reasons for this. I fail to see why disagreeing with someone is not adult.

yes, I think sometimes babies have to cry. It is a very modern notion that we havw to pander to our children. No one wants upset children, but in my opinion things have swung to the other extreme and I don't agree with it.

I would like to be able to say that without being attacked. This seeems to happen alot on MN. You disagree with the current thinking and you're "lynched". People make things up about what you have said and take things completley out of context. I shall carry on saying what I believe in, there is no right or wrong.

If I offend by the tone or words chosen I appologise, it is not my intention. I reserve the right however, to disagree with someone and defend my own beliefs.

I agree that you should be able to state your beliefs and stand up for it, it's just that the thread becomae a fight between you and franny rather than the help for the op that was needed.