Shall I just lie from now on?

[TheRealAmandaClarke]

Ranting. Sorry. Feel free to ignore

I have an 11 mo dd who wakes once or twice at night to bf.
My ds did the same. (they hate me )

With the exception of one excellent friend, It is not possible for me to mention that I am tired, or answering an enquirely about dd's sleep, without hearing about how I'd be best placed letting her CIO for a couple of nights.
This is coming from ppl who I've already explained my reasons to for not wanting to do that.
It feels so unhelpful and critical.

So I think I shall just reply to any sleep related question with "oh, she's great, goes right through from ....ooh, 7'til 7."

Are they right?

Why can't ppl just make sympathetic noises and acknowledge that some DCs don't sleep through yet?
HAve I failed at this bit of parenting?

Shit!

DD2 didn't sleep through until 2.5 years and I was told, multiple times to leave her to CIO. I found saying 'oh no - I'm a rapid returner' in a tone that says 'no I'm not a total monster' worked well. She would go down for 14 hours a night except for that one wake up when I would give her milk. I was advised to drop that milk drink and ignored that advice. It was hard to fit in enough food and snacks in the 10 hours each day she was very active for, she needed a snack in the night.

I don't have a problem with people who use CIO in as sensible fashion and I do check that the cry isn't a 10 second yell followed by 1 min of calming down before going to investigate.

But using horrified tones tells the advice giver to bog off

Interesting point Kelly. Have a friend who's just about to give birth to her 1st and she's asking for advice about routines etc. I wrote out a long and frank email then edited it right back down! So hard to know how truthful one should be. Scaring pregnant women is not nice but neither is that feeling of 'how come nobody fucking told me!'

I agree with Kelly. Please don't lie.
I was chatting to a lady at work who I don't see very often, and the relief on her face following a yawn when I said none sleeping kids are torture. She has had loads of people "Oh, mine were doing 163829543 hrs a night at that age".

I did, however, with DS2 say he was much better than DS1 (which was true as far as it went).

ah emerald been meaning to reply to other thread!

rant here and lie: 's/he sleeps like a baby' works!

I felt v embarrassed for a long time (we're cosleeping to cope initially but now it's the only way I can sleep myself!!). Dh still does as he's so completely brainwashed by our cultural ideals.

I feel angry that my son and I have been subjected to this parenting ideal of an independent baby who sttn (incidentally scientists have had to agree on this and it's 5 hours. so sttn would still be 2 wakes in 12 hours) when both our instincts said otherwise. at one point I remember he'd sleep really well if I held his hand - dh tried to get me to stop cos lo 'had to learn to be on his own' Dh thought he had los best interests at heart, believing that not sleeping was harming him in some way. that whole sttn thing - all it is is a baby not bothering their parents. they still wake.

baby's don't sleep! it's normal! it's what we do to cope that's up for debate and I dont see why it has to be something to be ashamed of when we choose to cuddle and and feed lo if it works????

and as for sttn - before electric lights etc we all had 2 sleeps. m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16964783

*babies

although Kelly, yes a good point, we probably need to be honest.

other cultures think it very odd we get in such a twist about sleep.

I find that being honest is isolating- no one else is prepared to be honest along with you and lying is keeping it all to yourself which is also isolating! Haven't read whole thread so sorry if I've repeated anyone's point. My ds1 sleeps in his cot from 7-10 waking every 30-40 mins or so then I take him into our bed where he continues to wake at least every two hours. I used to talk to anyone and everyone about it but actually no one has a clue unless they've been through it, and as others have said, the rest either forget or lie. Ah that feels better-thanks op!

Just read "the no-cry sleep solution"
Helpful, liberating, comforting.

2 wakings last night.

real!

oh yes my ds is was like that. two nights ago he slept through though (next to me)

last two he's coughed and fed all night

we'll get there eventually!!!

That's read to rhyme with "red" btw.
It wasn't an instruction.

yes I read read as read.

(I red read as red..... )

I am 'glossing over the truth' lying with those who I know are unsupportive / judgemental/ forgetful / smug pretty much everyone
But have taken huge comfort from a few friends / colleagues who have come out the closet with tales of co sleeping and ongoing sleep deprivation! It's a sad world really where this area too can feel so competitive but I guess that's true of pretty much everything about being a parent these days.

Agree liveinthepresent
I am only Contemplating fibbing to ppl who are critical/ advise me to CIO etc.
Is that ok?

I thinking will start the rumour that the thing that worked was demand breastfeeding throughout the night.

AmandaClarke :) :) :)

Amanda! I'll join you ....

funny thing is - at 13 mo, d'ya know what? doing exactly that, I CAN see him learning to do it independently. he'll crawl away from me and talk himself to sleep. and isn't arsed about bf as much as just cuddling up to me. most of the time

I am livid now.
DH has "helped" by trying to settle dd (also ds had a bad dream so he was up too) and now is more tired than usual.
He said that I should stop "mollycoddling" dd and then we can all get some sleep "can't be expected to work with no sleep"... Bla bla.
I didn't ask him to elaborate as it was 4am. But I think it's pretty obvious (also because of another few "subtle" comments of his) that he think I should stop bf and start leaving her at night.
So thanks very much helpful sis IL, with your unsolicited unhelpful, uneducated advice. Now your dB is asking me to do the same with our baby. She's not even a year old.
Livid. This is going to affect my marriage because I will not bend to pressure on this but he thinks she's the holy grail of parenting advice.
Why can't people just fuck off with their bloody opinions on such a personal matter? Why does everyone want me to experience the torment of listening to my baby's distressed cries but not go to her. Bastard sadists!
Livid!

At last no tap dancing last night - 8hrs between his feeds - no bloody idea why though and fear it will just make me more frustrated with the normal 3he waking.

I also have a friend giving birth soon and have been honest about sleep and tips for coping - we should start a crusade to get the truth out there with the message babies don't wakeup because they are naughty or because your bad parents.

Great news purple

I refuse to lie: I'm CheerfulYank and my 7 and a half month old doesn't even have her own bed yet.

The room which will be hers doesn't have heat, so we're going to sort that out first. She does have a papasan swing she will sleep in for awhile, but otherwise she sleeps with us and nurses every 3-4 hours.

I think CIO is harmful.

I think there is a difference between someone mentioning once or twice that they are tired because their 11 month old is waking through the night and someone who moans on a regular basis about how tired they are, how they find it difficult to function through the day, etc. I know someone that does the latter and I just find it frustrating to listen to because she is not prepared to try anything different to improve the situation.

Amanda, I hear you - I have been through all this with my DD who's now two. She's a lot better than she used to be, and does now sometimes sleep for a good 10 hours solid (though not every night) and we usually have a lovely snuggly lie in together when she does wake up and I bring her in with me.

But it's been horrendous getting there and waking every 45 minutes was a frequent pattern for quite a while. If she only woke every 3 hours I counted it a blessing and a "good night". I have followed my instincts the whole way through, always going to her when I could tell it was a "serious" cry (not just a grizzle), breastfeeding when necessary (I still bf which horrifies people, though haven't needed to do so at night for months), and offering cuddles and reassurance when not.

I got it in the neck from all angles - DH, MIL, SIL, friends - to toughen up and leave her to cry. Everyone but my own lovely supportive DM treated me like some mad, manipulated martyr - and yet, had I given in my to desire to shriek at them all that actually, I think leaving babies to cry is morally wrong and I think less of them for doing so, I'd have been the bad guy. Go figure

TheBookOfRuth - am with you :) and am so happy to hear that it CAN happen (10 hours straight, I mean)

AmandaClarke - hope you're letting off some steam, I have one of those SiL's too - her first baby is due any day and I just know it WILL sleep through from 3 weeks old...

I don't actually bang on about feeling tired. I just reply honestly if someone asks about the nights (oh no, no more)
But even if I did, so what? Motherhood can be bloody exhausting and stressful and fraught at times. Why can't ppl just be gentle or offer to help out rather than insisting that you force your child to lie screaming and un- comforted for hours on end? It makes no sense.
But yes, rant over.
Thankfully dd usually sleeps for about 8 hours initially, it's the wee small hours that are a struggle.
I like to think if someone ilove told me they were tired and a bit miserable because of the nights u would say " poor thing, it's hard isn't it?. Hey, let me take pickle out for a couple of hours on Saturday and maybe you could have a rest"
Actually my DSisIL is lovely and supportive, but I am allergic to being pointedly advised to let dd cry and leave her. I think it's cruel. But of course I can't say that because it offends the "adviser"

AmandaClarke I was advised to do CC in a lift today, by a perfectly pleasant but total stranger. STRONGLY advised, in fact.
Sorry that sounds weird typed out - I wasn't advised to do some CC whilst in the lift, I was in a lift and was, while there, advised to do some CC later on tonight. IYSWIM.
I'm a little tired of having to be polite and saying, "Oh, well, I'm glad it worked for you but it's not my thing" when people are quite so pushy about it...
I do know, by the way, that people are only trying to be helpful usually but I don't know why CC advocates don't just realise, even if they don't understand it or agree why, that for some people CC is JUST NOT AN OPTION.
Also for some babies btw... My DD (basically the happiest baby I've ever known) will scream herself to almost the point of vomiting if she wants me and I can't get there as quick as she wants, and/or if I'm trying a desperate attempt to leave her with my v lovely mother's help for five mins while I get important calls made etc. She goes mottled purple and almost hyperventilates.
Fine, she might stop doing that if I left her to do it for 3 nights, as everyone tells me WILL happen.
I doubt it, but she might.
Just don't think it's a good idea with that kind of temperament.
Btw a truly unpleasant cranial osteopath (who told me DD wasn't crying 'real tears' when she screamed blue murder for an entire session; she was only 6 months old and a strange man was pressing her head in a position (on her back) she finds very uncomfortable, I don't think it matters how 'real' the tears were or not...) told me in no uncertain terms that I was a fool for not doing CIO, his daughter was 'cured' in one night, apparently.
I don't appreciate that kind of advice! I don't give it. Tired of getting it.
Rant over. Again.

the early hours are when teeth etc hurt the most. partly to do with blood pressure (which touch, cuddles and also bf help to lower. and probably love does that too ) and also partly I was told by my Dr last week as the body's natural steroid hormones (? ?) are lowest in the early hours of the morning 'and did you know that's why more heart attacks happen at 3 am..'

thankyou Dr, now is my ds's cough ok as he's been coughing all night....

so I sort of feel it a little cruel imo.

wow 8 hours!

longest ds has ever managed is 5 and only around 5 or 6 times in his life. all 13 mo of it!