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Baby-led parenting.....

31 replies

Misfitless · 16/11/2013 16:59

If you've done baby-led parenting, please can you tell me at what age your DCs stopped bfing, and at what age they slept through the night in their own beds. Also was it traumatic? Thanks!

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BabyBorn · 16/11/2013 20:29

Hi. I found the thread! DD is still breast feeding at 19 months, she has never slept all night. Not traumatic at all. Why do you ask?

MrsS28 · 16/11/2013 20:36

Hi

My DD gave up bf'ing at 2yrs + 3mths. Still comes in bed with me during the night.

MrsS28 · 16/11/2013 20:36

P.s. Sorry- and she's just over 2 1/2 now.

Wallison · 16/11/2013 20:37

I always wonder how people can be anything other than baby-led - I mean, you can't get a baby to do something they don't want to, not really. I bf till 15 months but actually knowing what I know now I'm pretty sure it was a nursing strike and we could have got over it if I'd known how to. My son slept through from 13 weeks which I think is unusual - he took it upon himself to cluster-feed in the early evening, which again at the time I didn't understand but then suddenly he started sleeping through so I went from thinking 'wtf is it with all this feeding?' to 'Wahey!'. He's had his times since then that he's needed more help with getting to sleep, including needing me to lie with him until he fell asleep during his 'nightmares' phase and I've just gone along with it.

bundaberg · 16/11/2013 20:50

i think if you mean generally going with what baby wants rather than trying to impose routine etc then it can never really be traumatic.

my 2nd and 3rd babies weaned at 16 months and just under 3 yrs respectively.

the 2nd slept in his own cot in our room from about a year (but we had it side-car up til then so he was used to it).
he slept through the night regularly at around 4yrs

3rd we did a combination of co-sleeping and him being in the cot depending on how tired I was, but he was always happy to self-settle so it wasn't an issue. If he hadn't been then he'd have done a lot more co-sleeping.
He slept through by around 2ish

NoComet · 16/11/2013 21:25

Suffice to say given the age DD2 stopped BFing, I do school child lead parenting.

No idea when they slept through, I never much minded night feeds. It's crack of dawn waking I can't cope with.

DD2 still believes in 'almost teen' lead parenting. She's trying to get me to help her make cheese cake.

It's HE for a lesson she missed so I think
She ought to work it out.

Misfitless · 16/11/2013 21:36

Thanks so much for your replies. Didn't explain myself especially well.

When I asked if it was traumatic, I think I was expecting mums & dads to be pissed off with the whole baby-led thing before the DCs ever would be Smile.

In other words, you'd reach the end of your tether (?), think enough is enough, I can't go on (this would make a catchy lyric), and want to stop night time feeds, want your bed to be a baby-free zone and have ten times as much work and stress trying to get your baby used to sleeping without breast milk and without you next to them.

By the time you got to that point, I imagined the DC would be used to calling the shots and dictating when and where they sleep/breast feed, so presumably would get separation anxiety and find it almost impossible to settle, which would in turn be really stressful for the parents.

I appreciate that for the posters on this thread, it isn't actually like that, though. Clearly this is because you are an exceptionally laid back, patient and selfless bunch!

I was asking because I'm nosy, and because my pregnant friend and I have been talking about night time routines etc recently.

I realise that I sound like some naive heartless knob who hasn't a clue, but I have breast fed all 4 of my DCs, and did use the baby-led approach with DC1. I did indeed reach breaking point, and the fallout was like the scenario I've described above. So much so that I didn't use that approach again - couldn't bare the thought of years of sleepless nights, and then DCs not being able to go back to sleep without cuddles and breast milk.

I was pretty convinced DC1 would never choose to sleep in her own bed, and so therefore I thought that if I didn't put a stop to it, I'd end up with a ten year old DD in my bed (I know someone who actually let their DS co-sleep till he was 10!!!! Honestly! When I found that out all those years ago, I knew it was time to act for the preservation of my sanity; there's no doubt in my mind that the approach I'd used made that a damn site more difficult and stressful for both of us.

It's good to know that if you are patient enough, it can work Grin

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bundaberg · 16/11/2013 21:42

I do think that if you go down that route you generally do have to accept that you're in it for the long run.
but for me it was also kind of a path of least resistance thing. the sheer effort of trying to sleep train DS2 was just way too much for me Wink if i'd had to take him back to his room several times a night it'd have done my head in, so it was easier to let him come in with us if he wanted to

so i think perhaps i'm more lazy than selfless Grin

humphryscorner · 16/11/2013 21:54

I tried baby led it wasn't for us, ended up with an exhausted Dm dh and extremely exhausted dd Sad

I didn't mind dd being in bed with us, dh and dh love that part but she was waking from 3-4am every 20 /30 mins. Dh even started sleeping in spare room do we would have plenty of space but it didn't work. I think I responded to quick to every noise she made and half the time she was just suckling. That then had a knock on to her day time naps !

She never had a problem going to sleep in her cot during day until recently and I felt we were going backwards. I don't think it's just about patience or what you can endure - as that implies that others are more better (cannot think of a better word as my sleep deprived brain has froze) at dealing with the babies.

I've just bought the sleep whispers tip on sleep as were all struggling at the moment. For my baby , baby led isn't working especially for her, she looked like she had been raving all weekend this morning, looked so tired.

Feel absolutely retched and had a little cry myself for her when she finally went to sleep tonight Sad

stella69x · 16/11/2013 22:03

Don't get the baby led thing. Surely they need to learn routine, imagine telling schools etc that dc doesn't want to so the rules ( of society) don't apply to them. Roll forward x years sorry mr police man I don't agree as my life is lead the way I want things.
Ok extreme example but......

Aquariusgirl86 · 16/11/2013 22:19

First baby I tried to enforce rules, like she had to stay in her own room (from 8 months) and tired to get her off night time feeds but failed until she was almost 2, she's 2.5 and still wakes regularly at night and now often ends up in our bed (I've given in now!) baby 2- co-slept til 9 months then started going to bed in his own bed but from 2-3am onwards will only settle in our bed, he's now 15 months. Most mornings I wake up with two toddlers in my bed, ah well they are happy Grin

bundaberg · 16/11/2013 23:10

Stella my 3 are all at school and have no problem there.
Not sure why a lack of routine at home would mean they can't follow rules at school?

Spiritedwolf · 17/11/2013 00:07

I will preface this post by saying that I am a first time mum of a 15 month old, so I'm near the beginning of my parenting journey. I reserve the right to have a different opinion once he's older and I've had more babies. Wink

I have never understood the following argument for not being child led - The theory goes that at some point my DS will reach an arbitary age (lets call it Z) (anywhere between 6 months and 10 years) when I will suddenly decide I no longer wish to co-sleep/nurse him to sleep/etc. Over this time period apparently he hasn't become any more mature, any more able to deal with seperation, any more able to be reasoned with or bribed so when I suddenly kick him out of bed and tell him I don't want to nurse him anymore. He may be upset/angry/tantrum/refuse to co-operate. This is bad.

So to avoid him being upset at arbitary age (Z), what I am advised to do is get him used to sleeping on his own/going to sleep without nursing being an option by introducing this at an earlier arbitary age (A). And this process might involve him being upset/angry/tantruming/refusing to co-operate. Perhaps for an extended period of time because he's younger and less able to understand/self soothe/control his impulses.

The thing is, I don't see much difference between a baby/toddler/child being upset at (A) than them being upset at (Z) except that we might never get to (Z) because the child might become independant on their own before I suddenly get fed up of them. Why do I need to impose (A) when (Z) will either happen or not happen anyway? What is to be gained by baby training at (A) just incase I get fed up of later?

I'd rather that if I was going to do something to upset DS, like moving him to his own bed before he thinks he's ready, that I do it when he's older and has more inner resources and skills to deal with it. Such as being able to talk about it. Other people appear to disagree, they reckon that I'm getting him used to 'having things his own way' and he'll take it badly being told what to do later. But we don't refuse to change babies nappies when they are 12 months old because we expect them to be able to wipe their own bums at 10 years old. We accept that there is a learning process and they will get there eventually (and unless there are health/neurological conditions it is likely that the vast majority of children will manage it well before they are 10 years - just like sleeping in their own bed).

The way I see it going with DS (just so you and my future self can have a laugh) is at the moment he sleeps in a bedside cot (3 sides open onto our bed). We only live in a one bedroom flat, so when we move (hopefully when he's around 2 years) to somewhere with a bedroom for him, he'll have his own bed in his own room, but he'll still be welcome in ours, and I imagine that he'll transistion over to sleeping in his own bed gradually over a few years.

This has already been a long post. But its worth me saying that child-led, doesn't mean that the child gets to rule the roost and tell the rest of the household what to do. It just means that they are considered a person, just as worthy of their needs being considered as any other family member and accomodated where possible. If the parents hate co-sleeping, then that isn't a realisitic possibility.

Attachment Parenting is specifically not about martyring yourself. Sears makes it clear that "Balance" is one of the foundations of the principles of AP, it means balancing the parents needs so that you are nurtured and rested enough to do the the rest of it!

Sorry if I haven't made much sense, it is late [yawn] Brew

Spiritedwolf · 17/11/2013 00:14

Its also worth noting that parents who like routines and baby training can still go through difficult periods when their babies and toddlers wake more often in the night and they spend hours resettling them. (My antenatal group certainly talks about it quite a bit!) Sometimes its teeth, sometimes its illness, sometimes its developmental or for no apparent reason at all.

I have never had this problem fingers crossed because I am right there beside him and if he stirs he just latches on before he wakes up properly. Or maybe DS is just chilled and I'm lucky. Wink

working9while5 · 17/11/2013 00:43

Listen I was the ultimate 'baby led' mother with ds1 and would have vehemently argued against any other way....

I'm just not convinced as I move on to baby 3. Since becoming pg I've worked at getting ds2 to sleep in cot without feeding to sleep and staying in his cot overnight. No cc, just a mix of gentle pick up/put down (he is 16 .months) and shush patting, moving gradually away. We had both been actually getting into his cot to get him to sleep Hmm.

I just reckon it's about realism. With three under four and Dh with a serious knee issue likely to require extensive surgery and recuperation which means he really can't lift them or do night-time parenting, I'm not going to able to be immediately responsive to all of them so gentle and firm discouragement of sleeping in our bed, having a pretty solid routine for going to sleep and consistency in sleep routine in general is important. I had PND last time and the demands are going to be way higher.

Also, having gone one way with ds1 and not having a bedtime last under an hour-hour and a half til he was 3, I'm not keen on being so child-led again. I don't think it did either of us any favours and until some boundaries were put in place, he really was a bit sleep deprived.

Good sleep routines are correlated with better learning and behaviour at school too...

LastOrdersAtTheBra · 17/11/2013 00:44

I have gone for baby led twice, let them feed to sleep, come into our bed, etc.

DS1 stopped feeding at night at 14 weeks, went back to it for about a week during 17 week growth spurt but never did it regularly again. Moved to his own room at 18 months (house layout meant we couldn't do it sooner), didn't self wean but wasn't that bothered when I stopped bfing just before he was 2. No trauma involved at all and he's still a good sleeper now.

DS2 (nearly 3) has barely slept through the night ever, he has been in his own room a while but still sneaks into our bed at some point most nights. But he's been way ahead with other areas of independence, toilet trained sooner, has always wanted to dress/ undress himself and rejects help (even when he does need it).

They're all individuals and you have to parent the child you have, at school DS1 found the free play in reception confusing and is far more settled in Y1 being told what to and when to do it. I hope he felt loved and secure as a baby, but worry that he found baby-led parenting a bit stressful and would have preferred a bit more structure (and I'm the kind of person who hates the word structure).

DS2 is definitely more of a baby led child, attempting to fit him into a routine would have involved hours of battling and screaming, which would've been stressful for everyone. DS2 is more sociable and gregarious though and has more respect for other people's feelings than DS1 did at the same age.

I don't think baby-led/routine necessarily equates to the same thing as refusing to follow the rules of society when you're older. It's hard to tell as DS2 isn't school age yet, but I think he's likely to have less problems conforming to the rules of society as he's so much more concerned whether other people are pleased with him.

Misfitless · 17/11/2013 05:52

Humphreyscorner Thanks
(Laptops's playing up so have to do lots of mini-posts instead of one long one or it deletes my messages.)

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Misfitless · 17/11/2013 05:57

Humphreysconer you're right, it's not always about being better or having more patience.

As (best ever name) LastOrdersAtTheBra pointed out, it can just be about different personalities.

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Misfitless · 17/11/2013 06:06

My DD1 was baby-led and bfed till about 19months old, and developed a habit of holding onto and rubbing my arm as she was feeding.

She became so dependent on this that she couldn't get back to sleep without doing it. This was fine during the day, but at night she needed this to get back to sleep, which made the whole thing really uncomfortable and frustrating for me (crick in the neck, couldn't sleep in a comfortable position so even when she was asleep I wasn't!)

If she couldn't feel my arm in her sleep she would wake up, need to latch on, and rub my arm. This hyper-dependency on my arm and boob made her quality of sleep really poor, and my quality of sleep was non-existent.

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Misfitless · 17/11/2013 06:08

It also meant I had to go to bed much earlier than I wanted to most nights, and if I wanted any sort of night out it just wasn't worth the stress.

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Misfitless · 17/11/2013 06:13

Things got better when I decided I had to stop bfeeding (for all the reasons mentioned,) but that in itself was one long stressful battle for us both. She was still in my bed till about the age of 4, which was much too long for my liking, again, I had to put my foot down or it would have gone on for I dread to think how many several more years, I'm sure.

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Misfitless · 17/11/2013 06:14

Anyway, humph hope things get better for you all soon x

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Misfitless · 17/11/2013 06:22

Forgot to say - someone mentioned that they thought it affected their DC's naps in the day. Can completely relate to this - DD1 didn't really sleep in the day. This sounds unbelievable as I type, but it's true. She would only sleep in the car or being pushed in the pram - you can imagine the state I was, with no sleep during the night and not being able to sleep in the day (as I was either walking or driving when she was sleeping).

Any, once bitten twice shy! I realised for me, it just didn't work, and my other babies were mummy-led and were much more settled as a result. Grin

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humphryscorner · 17/11/2013 08:06

mis I think it was me about the naps!
We had a bit of a break through last night don't know if it was a fluke. We tanked dd up before 12am cluster feeds also and didn't feed her at all through night Shock just put her dummy in twice! She woke chatt

humphryscorner · 17/11/2013 08:06

Chatt