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Original poster

Is self-settling really the magic bullet for sleeping through?

46 replies

CityDweller · 08/09/2013 08:51

Just wondering really... Nearly 5 mo used to sleep through (at around 8 weeks, til about 13wks). Hasn't since then and varies from 2 to 6 night wakings now, and most of those require feeding her back to sleep. Bar a handful of occasions in her life, she's always bf to sleep. Will teaching her to self-settle make her sleep through again?? If so, I'm willing to make the effort to help her learn!

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Original poster
CityDweller · 08/09/2013 08:52

Should add - only feed her to sleep at night. Not for naps.

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Novia · 08/09/2013 08:55

I sympathise and will be watching this thread with interest. My 5 month old is the same - fine during the day but feeds to sleep at night.

Sometimes she can be up every 2 hours and it's a grind as she cries if she wakes when I transfer her to the cot and I have to start all over again. Hmm

Can't bear the idea of CIO, but the no sleep solution book is next to useless...

docsarah · 08/09/2013 10:15

Dunno. We are in a similar situation. CD slept well until about 12 weeks, then broke properly. She's now 25 weeks and has mostly been fed to sleep. Over the past fortnight, we've had some 4-5 hour stretches St night, but last night she was up at 10:30, midnight, 2:30 and then 5:30. If she feeds during th night, sometimes she's clearly had enough and rolls over and goes straight to sleep, so she can do it. I also put her down drowsy but not asleep.

We followed the advice in the NCSS and to be fair we have seen a very gradual improvement since the nights of waking every 90 mins. The NCSS is very slow going though. What has worked is changing only one thing at a time - over the past few nights I've been trying pick up/put down when she wakes up and I know she is not hungry. It took at most 10mins before she was down and asleep but I think that's because she knows the general idea of what should be happening at sleep time as we've had a cast iron bedtime routine for months. This also helped when we moved to cot from bednest - everything was the same except she was put in the cot instead of the nest.

I know some wakings feel like habit so I am trying to cut down on feeding her then. As we've been working on putting her down not asleep I think it has made a difference but I am so sleep deprived I could be deluded and just hoping that all my efforts have not been in vain!

We have got naps sorted - she will go for an hour in the morning and two hours in the afternoon I. Her pram but it has taken about 5 weeks of working at it - previously she would only nap on me. It doesn't seem to have made that much of a difference to her night sleep though.

It needs to get better soon as I am back at work next month....

docsarah · 08/09/2013 10:16

Apologies for the large number of typos in the previous post - I blame autocorrect and sleep deprivation...

beginnings · 08/09/2013 10:22

IME it was. If my DD fed to sleep or fell asleep in my arms she used to wake 45 mins or an hour later screaming but if I put her down slightly awake, she slept through. Started going from 7 to 7 at 13 weeks and at 16 months we've never looked back, except for the odd night for teeth. Even if she wakes in the night, I still put her back down awake, after comforting her.

Big caveat though, I only have the one so far and am pretty certain that some of this is down to work on my part, and a whole lot is sheer dumb luck. Ask me again at about Christmas when DC2 is about three months!!

Cnix · 08/09/2013 10:40

I used to get in a tiz about this as well. We taught our dd to self settle believing it would magically make her sleep through. It didn't. However it did reduce the number of wakenings. She didn't truly sleep through until she was totally night weaned about at about 8 months or so.

ElphabaTheGreen · 08/09/2013 11:36

Self-settling and night-weaning has made no difference whatsoever here. If I let 15mo DS fall asleep by himself, which involves a very great deal of screaming, he might sleep for an hour, usually less. Feed him to sleep, I get two or three hours between wake ups (while working full-time, I might add). Exhausted doesn't begin to describe...

Luck, luck, developmental readiness and more dumb luck is what determines whether a baby sleeps. I've decided that all sleep training does is distract the parent from how hideous they feel and marginally alleviates the feeling of helplessness. It'll help your baby to sleep if, and only if, your baby is ready to sleep. Mine still isn't

Original poster
CityDweller · 08/09/2013 11:38

Well, that's it really. There are a couple of things I could try to help her sleep better: teaching to self-settle (eg using pupd), moving her out of bednest and into cot in own room. But equally I could do nothing. I don't really want to expend a lot of sweat and tears if it's something she'll do on her own eventually (but not too eventually). Her napping has improved dramatically over the last month without me having to do much. Perhaps nighttime sleep will too...?

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brightonbythesea · 08/09/2013 19:44

agree with beginnings. I used to hate it when my DD fell asleep on the bottle and I couldn't wake her, as she would definitely wake screaming 45 minutes later. I think this was because she stirred and found herself in a different place to where she last remembered. If I put her down awake she would sleep through the night 7-6.30/7. She is 10mo now and still sleeps through the same hours, but may do so restlessly if teeth are coming or she is poorly.

Amyksays · 08/09/2013 20:04

No - it's not magic, but I think the earlier you can achieve it makes life easier down the line - before all you have left is cry it out.

I did put down awake from 5 months, are now at 7 months and doing 5-6 hours as opposed to 2-3.

Also have whole evenings to myself :) , and makes putting down easier as I have a toddler too.

Found a website called Troublesome Tots v useful and with a good tone. Good luck everybods!

rootypig · 08/09/2013 20:12

No - because sleep associations can survive learning to self settle. Eg my 10mo DD - self settles in cot for naps and bedtime. Wakes up in the night for a bottle because I fed on demand when I was BF and never worked up the confidence (that she wasn't hungry) or energy to stop. That said, teaching to self settle is the answer to ending sleep associations..... you just have to get all of them. But it's kind of like saying everyone dies because their heart stops Grin. True, but not very illuminating.

I'd recommend Dr Ferber for getting a good understanding of children's sleep and why your baby is waking. His methods aren't for everyone but the information you get helps you to come up with your own solutions. He's a neurologist / paediatrician.

Sioda · 08/09/2013 22:58

DD pretty much always self settled but has only slept through for a few weeks at a time in 16 months. We have no idea why she wakes up. She slept through again over the last couple of weeks, now interrupted by teething again of course, so we have hope. Her sleeping through seems completely random, we do nothing differently. I wish it were as easy as teaching them to self settle...

Original poster
CityDweller · 09/09/2013 19:18

Ok, so sounds like it's time to bite the bullet and help her to learn how to self-settle. My question to those whose babies do and who bf: my DD feeds to sleep and that bedtime feed, which usually lasts an hour, is almost entirely a dream feed. She usually drops off 5 or 10 mins into it. I'm loathed to pull her off earlier as she is actually feeding during that time. So do I wait until she pulls off herself and instead of putting her down asleep (which is what I currently do) wake her up to put her down? I'm worried she won't go back to sleep as she will, essentially have had a 50ish minute power nap on the boob!

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glorious · 09/09/2013 20:13

Watching with interest as I have the same problem citydweller

girliefriend · 09/09/2013 20:24

If you haven't started to wean I would maybe wait til your lo is having some solids in the day.

My dd was waking twice a night at 5 mo, I started solids and by 6mo felt ready to reduce/ stop the night feeds because I felt confident she was getting enough food during the day.

I think also I was going back to work when dd was 7mo so wanted it sorted by then!!

Anyho I stopped bfing when she woke, would leave her 5 mins to see if she was able to settle herself back to sleep, if she didn't would offer water, kept lights low and interaction to a minimum, would also change dds nappy if it was soaked (dd hates feeling wet!)

Would basically then repeat the leaving for 5 mins and offering water until she fell asleep. Had a few nights of adjustment and then fine, was sleeping through from 7mo Smile

girliefriend · 09/09/2013 20:28

City dweller just seen your last post, I would be trying to keep her awake as much as possible and if she looks like she is falling asleep pull her off to wake her up a little bit, mostly because I would want to make sure she was feeding well.

The ideal is to put down very sleepy but not totally asleep iyswim?! What time are you putting down?

cantthinkofagoodone · 09/09/2013 20:36

You just change the order of your routine so boob pjs upstairs and then bed. This short amount of time just removes the association without leaving her hungry.

Original poster
CityDweller · 09/09/2013 21:30

I currently do bath at 6.30ish, into sleeping bag, then feed (on my bed) then put down. She's usually fallen asleep on boob by 7pm and down by 7.45/8. I could do bath, feed then into sleeping bag (which would wake her up) before putting down?

So, tonight she woke up as I was putting her down, having sleep-fed for 40 mins. I left her to it, but everytime she was on the very very tippy verge of falling asleep she'd wake up and start crying. I then did pick-up-put-down (I think - I've not actually read the book) or would just put my hand on her chest or rub her chest when she started crying. She finally went to sleep at 9.10! But on the last pick up she fell asleep as soon as I picked her up and stayed asleep when I put her down. So, I worry that this hour plus of fannying around didn't achieve anything other than an overtired baby that will probably wake up again in an hour! She just seemed unable to properly drop off - she was on the verge about 12 times.

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cantthinkofagoodone · 09/09/2013 21:35

Sounds about right. A gentle approach will take longer but essentially, you didn't feed to sleep. Yay!

You have to be consistent and try to not feed back to sleep for night wakings. Yuck but it pays off

Bambamb · 09/09/2013 21:42

Haven't read all the posts but IME self settling was the key. Once we cracked that nut DS was sleeping right through within a week. Aged about 9 or 10 months, having got to a point where he was up 5/6 times a night. Before that I fed him to sleep and it just got worse and worse the older he got.

Original poster
CityDweller · 09/09/2013 22:20

Problem is cantthink that I'm sure she still needs some night feeds (she's nearly 5mo), so I don't think I can avoid feeding her during the night. I've been trying to settle without a feed if she wakes up less than three hours since last feed, with some success. But usually I end up pulling her into bed with me and giving free access to boob cos I'm too tired to do anything else. Anyway, for now I'd be happy to get her self-settling to sleep at beginning of night. I'll tackle night feeds when she's a bit older and I can be more sure she doesn't need them.

But perhaps putting all this effort into self-settling is pointless if she isn't night weaned (as someone suggests up thread)

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cantthinkofagoodone · 10/09/2013 06:57

My lo self settled but woke for feeds at night until weaned at 7 months. It wasn't every sleep cycle though, just twice.

Original poster
CityDweller · 10/09/2013 07:45

Well, after finally going to sleep at 9.10pm last night (heavily assisted self-settling, if such a thing exists) she woke up twice last night, which isn't too bad (midnight and 4am), but was then up for day at 6.30am (she usually wakes up between 7 & 7.30). Progress, I guess, although I feel knackered anyway Sad

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cantthinkofagoodone · 10/09/2013 10:46

two night wakings isn't bad and a reasonable level to be expected at 5 months but her total sleep wasn't really enough. I think even babies who don't need that much sleep still need 10 hours. She'll get there eventually.

Oceansurf · 10/09/2013 10:52

Got to be, hasn't it?

We've always put DD down awake (after the first 6 weeks or so).

From 7 weeks she was sleeping 7-5am, with a break at 11pm for a feed (which we WOKE her for on the advice on the HV)

We then dropped that feed at 16 weeks.

She has slept through ever since from 7-7.

She very very occasionally woke in the night, just a whinge really. We never fed her, just offered water and a cuddle and put her straight back down (didn't talk to her, engage or anything)

I know she wakes up in the night, because often I've woken to go for a wee and noticed her on the baby monitor. But she's happy as larry in her cot and just goes back to sleep.