How do you teach a baby to settle themselves???????

[ANGELMOTHER]

Please help me here, any tips are appreciated. My dd2 is now 17 wks and a happy thriving baby if not the greatest sleeper. She sleeps little in the day and wakes 2-3 times a night but I know she's not always hungry and it's a comfort suck and back to sleep. She never goes into her cot awake as always falls asleep at the boob or bottle (mixed feeding). Night feeds always end up with co-sleeping as I feed her lying down and am reluctant to move and disturb her then.
Please help me break this pattern as I want to start her in a nursery just the one morning a week (for sanity reasons) but couldn't send her into new surroundings before acquiring this skill.

This is a repeat of my post on the other thread (slow torture) sorry to hog the thread and be repetitive but I would really like to get this cleared up.

After ds2 waking 90 minutes after I put him down, me getting stressed (I swore at my baby ), trying not to BF but giving in because I think he has a cold. I asked Dh for some support and kind words.
He started by telling me everyone knows that fromula fed babies sleep through the night.
FIreworks ensued, he knows I will BF this one exclusivley for at least the first 8 months.
I felt very undermined and let down by DH who 'was only trying to help'.

Is he right? Can anyone provide a link to prove him righ tor to the contrary.

Being a man he has no idea how he has dented my confidence in this difficult time.

I have known plenty of formula fed babies who do not sleep through the night. Out of my 4 babies, one did not sleep through the night till 9 months - my fattest child I have to say. Just now he is lying reading a book when he should be sleeping (he is 13years old). It is his personality. My sisters babies did not sleep through and when she got to no. 3 she thought bugger this and just fed them. Once they were over one year, she put them ina travel cot in the living room and shut the door. They screamed for 2 or 3 nights then slept. It depends how srtongly you feel about it. Decide to shut up shop and send dh through to ds every time he wakes. It might work. Or just feed him and get back to sleep. At 8 months that was what I did. He suddenly just slept through one night.
But formula has nothing to do with it.

Thanks mears
I guess I kind of suspected that but that's the power of MN, just hearing it again gives me back my confidence
thanks

Oh Suzy

Is your DS on solids? Did he ever drop a few night wakings and then started to increase? That's what happened with my DS and that signified the start of solids for me (cos I couldn't cope with 4-5 wakings again after we'd got it down to 2). Also DS quickly moved from 1-2 icecubes of solids to 3-4 (1&1/2 small jars) over a few weeks.

What is your baby's feed pattern during the day and night? eg. 7am milk, 10am solids, 12pm milk etc.

Sorry - just reread that you want to exclusively bf for 8 months. My m-i-l did this with my b-i-l (9 months) and said she found it v. v. hard with the night wakings. She didn't use a bottle either so no-one was able to help with the odd feed.

Is there a particular reason why you want to delay solids?

I'd just like to say that I think I've finally got a baby that can settle himself!!!!!! Thank you so much for your support and advice.

After a week of leaving him to settle BY HIMSELF it took about 10mins each time the first two days, but has dropped to between 1min-5min most naps and bedtime sleep from day 3. AND the biggest result is that he can now sleep past 45mins in the day as he's learnt it's ok to go back to sleep once he's woken up. Most often it is still 45mins but atleast I know he can do it if he wants to.

SO PROUD OF HIM!!!!

so thrilled for you Karen99 !!! It really does make soooo much difference to each and every day ! It felt as if a boulder had been lifted off my shoulders when that happened with me abt 4 weeks ago !

How are you doing Angelmother ?

Thanks Cords. Still feeling so chuffed for him.

Angelmother, how are you?

Well done Karen, isn't it such an achievement for you and them a new skill
Well I've been all over the place recently. It seems the thrush developed into an infection and am now on anti-biotics but as it's the same brand as the one bub was on when she had pneumonia I think I can continue to b/feed although I've found it really hard deciding to continue.
Basically having been so sore of late I've been giving more bottles and alas no Mears I wasn't pumping off the missed feeds as was simply too sore. This of course has resulted in my supply diminshing and after looking at my nipples yesterday was wondering why was I expecting her to feed from them, I wouldn't put them in my mouth as they are in such a state.
However after a teary afternoon deliberating over it all I've decided I don't want to stop it would be like the end of a love affair stupid as that may sound. So today I've been giving her the boob constantly trying to boost supply again and tomorrow dh and dd1 are off to the natural history museum so dd2 and I are off to bed to feed for the day.
She's nearly 5 mths and I can't give up now esp if these anti-biotics will clear the festering nipples, I only hope I'm over the worst. I've now done the mastitis, thrush and bleeding nipples so there isn't anything else is there
On the sleep front last night she went fron 7 to 4 and then 7 so although that was all "Hungry baby formula" fuelled I hope it doesn't stop. She's eating three square meals a day and will continue to have a bottle of formula last feed at night so here's hoping

Oh Angelmother, so glad things are on the up. It really is a 'love affair' or else we wouldn't be able to find the strength to carry on after all those problems (I too have had the mastitis and bleeding nips, but no thrush (fingers crossed, touch wood)). One thing I found helpful was to leave off the plastic shield that went into the pump that's supposed to help simulate the baby etc. I found this gave me much more room inside the bit where my nipple fit in and didn't hurt so much. If you can stand the pump you can always have a 'sucking moment' between dd feeds to boost supply again.

WELL DONE !!! and keep us updated.

Karen you're right I really should do some pumping to boost supply. I'm running out of patience again
Yesterday was fine fed all day and resisted the urge to give her a bottle knowing she was hungry. We slept for 1 1/2 hrs in morning together and she slept no more that day despite all attempts at encouraging her to nap so at 5 she was exhausted and nothing I could do but put her to bed at 5:30. Then awake at 9, 12 ,2 , 4 and 6:30. Aaaaaaaarrrggghhh
Today she has slept again a total of no more than 45 mins and 5:30 no option but to put her to bed. I offered her a bottle tonight as I always do and she took 1oz. I'm dreading another night like last night and as it's half term the days seem more tiring with dd1 to occupy.
This is a groan I know but last week before I resumed full time b/feeding she was going 7 to 4 to 7, I feel I've gone 10 steps back and don't know if I can do this anymore.
I have to boost milk supply and perhaps my anti-biotics are causing her some discomfort.............
Oh just tell me I can do this....

You CAN do this Angelmother. You have come so far...

Lets go back to basics. What tired signs does DD show? DS used to just yawn at this age and it wasn't until he got better control of his hands that he used to rub his eyes and now he tugs at his ears. One key bit of advice I got from MNet ages ago was to try and judge if baby is tired BEFORE the tired signs start appearing. Unfortunately I usually catch after first 1 or 2, but this is better than leaving it to go too far. DS cries and cries if I put him down over-tired.

It sounds like your DD is in the "over-tired" trap and insists on staying awake. DS still had three naps a day at her age, so put her down 2-2.5hrs after she wakes in the morning and then 3-3.5hrs after she wakes from that nap. Believe me, leaving them to settle isn't that bad. She will cry and it may take 10-15mins, but she will be able to do it (says she of such little experience!). If you think hunger is keeping her awake then give her a bf or ebm from a bottle just before the 2hrs to ensure her tummy is full. She should be in a eat-play-sleep-eat or eat-sleep-play-eat pattern which is repeated about 4 times across the day. (BTW, I'm not a GF or EASY follower, this is just what my DS fell into)

Can you identify any sort of pattern to her day at the moment?

HTH and we're here for you Angelmother. [hugs]

sorry, two more things, where does dd2 sleep? In cot in your room? Do you have room to put her in her own room or will she be moving in with dd1? We found after putting ds in his own room things improved greatly with night-time sleep.

And also, when are you thinking of introducing solids?

SORRY! Just thought of something else. Will summarise my questions!

-What pattern does dd2 have in the day, eg. eat,play,sleep
-What tired signs do you see?
-Where does dd2 sleep (still with you?, is there a chance she can go in her own room?)
-When are you thinking of introducing solids?
-What percentile is dd2 and how has her weight gain been?
-When is she due to start nursery?

Ok her pattern has been messy for a while but best judged as 7/7:30 wake and feed (although often doesn't want a feed immediately on waking as has snacked through the night ) drop dd1 to pre-school home feed and nap which can be anything from 10 mins to 1 hr. Wake feed then after picking up dd1 at 12 feed and nap, again anything fron 10 mins to 1 hr. Wake feed and ideally short nap around 3/4pm then bedtime ritual starts at 6 aiming for down for 7 with a bottle of formula.
This is the plan I aim for and have achieved it for a while but it seems just as I get it sorted something happens to upset routine, pneumonia, thrush, holidays at Xmas.
I have introduced solids a while back and she has most mornings some baby rice, a hot lunch and dinner with perhaps 1/2 yoghurts also. She readily welcomed the solids although it is only in the last couple of weeks that she has had them regularily.
She's steadily on the 25th centile and I'm really not worried about her weight, she's a happy tubby little thing. She's 20 wks now and was last weighed 2 wks ago at 13 1/2 lb.
No plans to start nursery yet as am waiting till after Easter hols. For now her cot is in our room but she will move into dd1's room soon. I'm moving dd1 into the spare room so will have to be delicate about it IYKWIM.
TBH the anti-biotics that I'm on were once desrcibed by the clever Mears as grisly and she wasn't wrong there. If that's how I feel I can only imagine how she's feeling. I feel guilty as it's my medication.
Tonight she went down with a full 7oz at 6:30 so here's hoping.
Thank you for all the advice, I started this thread because she couldn't settle herself. She can now do that easily, she sort of scratches at her head, I think she'll be a curl twirler

Hi there, have read most of the postings on here but no-one seems to have the problem i have, my dd is 26 months old has been in a BIG bed since 18 months, never been a good sleeper from birth, have tried controlled crying several times has not worked, she will not (and never has) napped during the day unless she's ill, we put her to bed at 8pm (dh and I take it in turns) she has a couple of stories but we have to sit with her til she falls asleep sometimes over an hour, when asleep may wake up within 15 minutes of us leaving or may sleep til 1ish (never the same time) will scream and thrash around and is a terror to settle, up until a couple of nights ago has been wandering into our room screaming then proceeds to climb in our bed, elbow dh out and goes to sleep.....p.s have 3 months old who sleeps 8pm-8am

AM, it's hard when you keep coming up against hurdle after hurdle.. sounds like the antibiotics are a nightmare. Hopefully the dose won't be for too long. I'm afriad I can only imagine what it's like to juggle two little ones.. (my time will come!! )

Hopefully things will improve once anti-bio have finished and possibly solids have increased. DS quickly moved from 1-2 icecubes per meal to 4-5 and milk feeds dropped from 5 to 3 over two weeks when he reached 6months. We definitely felt solids made a difference to his night-time sleep (controversial I know). Are you sure it's hunger that's waking her at night? If you're confident she's eaten enough in the day it may be worth trying to leave her to resettle at 12am (or whenever). As mentioned we went 'cold turkey' and found it was habit after about 3 nights. When the time is right maybe think about leaving dd2 to resettle herself at first waking in the night. We leave DS for a max 20mins crying, if it drops to grizzles he is usually asleep within 5 mins of that change.

HTH and post again when you have the time. x

Sorry shari1972, haven't any suggestions at the mo. Will have a think and post again.

shari, what's her routine immediately before bed? could you try putting a gate on her bedroom door and just keep going back every now & again to check she's ok but not letting her think you'll stay there till she's asleep?

AM, I think it is essential to stop night feeds before even thinking of controlled crying. I did it by restricting feeds to nothing between midnight and four am, say (can't remember the details!) then from 11pm until 5am etc. While they are getting fed at night they will be hungry at night - hunger is a habit as much as anything else. I'd say, don't even think of cc yet, concentrate on eliminating the night feeds that really bother you and only then trying cc. My ds didn't sleep through until 8months and was HORRIFIC before that - waking every couple of hours and staying awake for most of the intervening period....aaargh! Nearly driven to early grave by sleep deprivation. Now he's two and a half and sleeps really well I think. Eleven hours at night most nights, and a couple of hours every lunchtime. He sometimes wakes horribly early but unless ill sleeps through.

Totally agree with Aloha. You can only leave a baby to settle themselves once you know they are dry, not hungry, not ill, etc. At the moment you can't rule hunger out. Good idea about extending the 'no feeds' period gradually.

shari, have you tried the pick up/put down method by Tracy Hogg? I know several mums on MNet have said it's worked really well for them (unfortunately not with my ds). Also the "laying on the bed, sitting on the bed, moving towards the door, waiting outside the door" routine is one I've seen mentioned on MN for older toddlers. It can take a couple of weeks of effort but is effective.
I know it's hard getting them to nap in the day, but ds always sleeps better when I've 'forced' him to have a nap. If he misses out on sleep in the day his nights are usually shorter too. Does your dd sleep in the car or buggy in the day?

AngelMother have you ever looked at the New Contented Baby Book by Gina Ford i started the routine when dd was 6 weeks old but you can start it at any age. Controlled Crying was hard my husband and I argued constantly as I would be begging him to leave her and he would be trying to get out of our bedroom to get to her but it worked eventually and now she is 18 months in a big girl bed has been of all of her bottles from 12 months and still sleeps from 7pm to 7-7.30am every day. But Aloha and Karen are right everything else has to be looked at in conjuction with sleep for it all to work and this is what I found great about Gina Ford she taught me when to feed, how much to feed, when to start reducing feeds, how to reduce them until you finally cut them out altogether, when to nap during the day, when to wake baby and how to do controlled crying. We statrted with letting her cry for 5 mins go in and comfort her then 10 mins then 15 until at first it was about 3 hours but the next night was only 2 hours the next 1 until I could time her to be sleeping in 7 minutes its hard, very hard but well worth it.

I was watching Tracey Hogg this afternoon, she was swaddling a 12 week old baby and puting it down to settle by itself. I think she is very down to earth and sensible - pretty obvious stuff, but she has a geat way of reassuring mums that they are doing the right thing.

Hi, Bundle, her routine is the same every night, she has some warm milk at 7.30pm then changed in to pyjamas, teeth brushed and then to bed at 8pm 3 stories then she has to seetle down in the bed and we avoid eye contact, she will fidget around for half an hour or so forcing herself awake until she can't stay awake any longer, we have tried to put a stair gate on her room but this just ended up with her in hysterics shouting "I'm sorry mummy I be good now...peeeese let me out" and banging her head against the door, what Mother could keep that going? Also if we have tried the sitting on bed..etc one too, but again big hysterics and her coming out of the room sobbing.