Misery loves company: anyone want to join me on a support thread for those desperate and demoralised by their 8/9/10 mo sleep?

[Suchanamateur]

Bloody sleep regression. It's like 4 months all over again but worse because it felt (briefly) like we were getting somewhere. Feck. Anyone else want to share tales of woe or is it (a) just me or (b) way too depressing to post about..?

We've had the coughing for 11-12 weeks - it's the only thing (so far) that has come close to reducing me to tears because it's so relentless and so soul-destroying when you hear it repeatedly down the baby monitor, especially when you've FINALLY got them back in the cot. We've had an inhaler off the GP and either that, or time, seems to finally seeing it off, although it's not 100% yet.

Well, we could have ballsed it up royally today. DH, now recovered from norovirus, decided we had to go out to a large shopping centre. I think we ended up buying two books and a packet of cocodamol Time of year being what it is, it was heaving and we didn't get out of the car park until after 5, so naturally DS fell asleep on the 40 minute car drive home. I rushed him upstairs and clamped him onto the boob to try to get him back to sleep (worked for about 30 minutes) then, after a quick nappy change and into a sleep suit in the pitch black, got him on the other boob and back to sleep again. However, I can feel it in my waters that I'm going to have a very perky little boy around 2am...best get what sleep I can in now, eh?

Nighty night, for the next couple of hours, anyway.

SayMama I thought you sounded very polite too! I have had to watch my mouth since my 3 year old has started calling my baby a pest

Hi everyone. Well, at the risk of sounding thoroughly po-faced, I am never. Ever. Going to moan about DD's poor sleep again. Horrible accident on Thurs night - at SIL's, circumstances too long to relate, but basically DD grabbed the tablecloth and upset a full, scalding hot, mug of tea over herself. Luckily it's "only" first degree burns to her neck and shoulder - missed her face.

I was utterly terrified and panic-stricken as initially we had no idea how bad it was. Visions of permanent scarring etc. And the awful feeling that my baby was in terrible pain because I was careless. Her perfect, smooth skin is raw and blistered because I was careless. If I believed in a god I'd have been praying...

Feeling so, so guilty about all the horrid things I've thought and said about DD. Especially as she's being really brave and tolerant of strangers poking, prodding and hurting her.

So now I'll just grit my teeth when she wakes up every 90 minutes!

Oh fish how awful for you, and her. It's one of those things that could happen to any mum, none of us be perfectly watchful all the time. Don't feel guilty, we have all said and thought things that we wouldn't want our dc to undersyand, but we're human and the main thing is that we keep loving and trying our best foe them. Guilt is a useless emotion if you dwell on it, but a positive one if you let it change you then let it go...so you have made me think that I will try to be more patient with ds tomorrow.

Thank goodness your dd is ok, and fingers crossed for full and quick healing for the burns x

Awake. Been awake for hours. Loosing will to live

Poor fish She'll be fine - one of those things that was probably far worse for you than her. A work colleague told me about her goddaughter whose ankle gave way while she was going downstairs and she dropped her newborn down the whole flight - it even bounced. Baby was screaming and fine at the bottom, thank whatever deities may or may not be in existence, but I think I've stewed less about DS's sleep since hearing about it.

Hello... Just popping in to say it does get better - take heart!

We have had 3 months of "what happened to my lovely baby who slept through?!" and now my 10 mo ds is just starting to sleep better again. Colds and teething (seemingly endless teething with no actual sign of actual teeth!) didn't help. I also became Calpol's bitch. My GP said it was OK for a short period of time.

Also had the sobbing until picked up and then all smiles thing. We feed to sleep a lot of the time even though he can self settle because he doesn't. And do you know what? I don't even care.

He was breast fed until he was 8 mo but would have his bedtime feed from DH in a bottle from 10 ish weeks. We found that we knew how much he'd had then, and after 11 oz at bedtime there was no way he was hungry again 3 hours later... So stopped feeding him again then.

We also did a dream feed at 10 for a bit to make sure he had a full bottle at night but I didn't really like that as it felt like force feeding, iyswim (not judging - that's just how I felt).

So anyway... let's hear it..."this too shall pass". The relief is amazing.

Oh gosh, Fish I didn't see your post. How frightening for you! And poor babyfish :(

Please try not to feel guilty though. It could (and does!) happen to anyone. I'm sure it will heal well and she won't even remember it in time.

Reading back last post I realise I sounded drunk and twee - apologies, really mustn't post so late at night.

Sorry you were up so long say, hope you got some sleep eventually.

On separate note, can I ask how all these sleep shenanigans are affecting your relationship with dps? Currently struggling with mine, resentful of all the sleep I lose while do doesn't even seem to stir unless I wake him, yet he still complains about being tired I the day which I find so annoying. I know I'm being martyrish, snappy, competitively tired, all those horrid things. Things feel so much worse when you're tired.

Oh Fish I feel awful for posting that after your post! Poor you and poor DD! Please try not to feel too guilty, it was an accident. Glad it didn't get her face. How was she overnight? Has she been sore? Have they dressed it in a second skin thing (duoderm) or anything? < un-mnetty hugs >

DD finally went to sleep at 3 last night, after driving her up and down the dual carriageway for 20 minutes. God bless the car! Although apologies to the gritter I pulled out in front of!

Blossom Fortunately DH is marvelous with doing his share. He never grumbles. I feel really sorry for him this morning though, DD woke him about 2am, he helped to try and settle her and didn't sleep until he 'got up' for work at 4am (he starts at 5am ) So I know he'll be knackered when he gets in. At least the perks of being a SAHM is I can sit in my dressing gown and be lazy with the kids and no boss to tell me off! The only thing that's affected is the sex. He told me he wishes we had more of it (currently getting it about once a fortnight because of the tiredness) but he does understand and doesn't pressure. I really need to make more of an effort though, he's a bloody saint.

Oof just looked at the time of my post, must've been later than three because there was a vomit and a change of clothes and a drive after I posted that! No wonder I look like crap this morning!

Poor fish ! Please do try not to beat yourself up about this (though obviously that is exactly what I would be doing if it was my dd). I think this is the age when they suddenly start interacting with the world which basically seems to mean courting disaster. It's nobodies fault, it's just one of those shit things that happens.

If it makes you feel better dd is currently learning to walk (she seems to have decided to go from completely immobile to charging about with no intervening stages at all), this mostly involves lots of falling over in dangerous places. Before her nap this morning she managed to bash her head on the door frame and head butt a wall. Yesterday she came within millimetres of a+e when she pulled herself up on some shelves and the keeled over, catching the side of her head n the wardrobe door on the way. And of course there is also the sudden desire to pull heavy things down on her head, slam her fingers in doors and fling herself at whatever happens to be the most dangerous item within her vicinity. All in all I am developing ninja like reflexes and a seriously high chance of heart failure. I think the only way I will be able to avoid her getting injured is by tying her down but I understand that's frowned upon these days.

SayMama late night clothes change and clean ups are the worst - once during a tummy bug I changed five nappies between 5.20 and 6.45. Glad that's over. Hope you get a better night tonight.

DH does help, problem often is that I won't let him help enough as I'm worried that he will then be tired and we tend to argue when we're both tired. However today, bless him, he rather had to help when he found me in a crazed state trying to get buggy up and go out at 7.30 am in my pyjamas and wellies. DS wasn't going to sleep and I was convinced he needed to but a walk was the only way. I had been trying to feed then rock him to sleep and neither was working probably because actually he wasn't that tired but I was just desperate for him to sleep so I could go back to bed as I hadn't slept much or very well last night. Because I didn't want to wake DH I thought going out was the best option.

Should also explain that DS has this habit of sticking his fingers in my mouth and gripping my teeth/lips while he feeds, especially when he's sleepy or upset. Mostly I ignore it or try to distract him by holding his hand but this morning something in me flipped and I was so upset and frustrated by him writhing in my arms or wriggling on the boob that I felt I would bite his fingers in anger. I was pulling at my hair and forcing his hand away to bite my own arm to stop myself hurting him. So by the time DH found us I was in a state and really felt I would hurt myself or DS if I didn't go outside. Eventually he talked sense to me and left me sobbing on the bed while he took DS upstairs. DS was happy as larry playing til 9,30 when he apparently went to sleep very easily.

DH was rather shaken by this and today has suggested I go to GPs as he's worried I have PND or something. I really don't think I do - pretty sure it's just exhaustion and possibly hormones - but said I would ask you ladies, who are in the same boat as me, if you think that this kind of event is within the normal remit of an exhausted mum?

fish I am so sorry but what a relief that she's ok. It could have been my kids so many times - just luck that it hasn't been. They're so fast. Hope you're ok.

blossombath I think sleep deprivation is responsible for a lot. My DS scratches and squeezes my boob so much that I have a permanent bruise there and sometimes when he does it I yank his hand away harder than I need to. I am instantly ashamed and sick at myself, but I know that on the days when I have had a lie in I can take so much more. Your DH is great to be on the watch for PND, and if you feel you would benefit from talking to someone then why not, it can't hurt - but no, I think sleep deprivation is a method of torture for a very good reason. It sends you insane. By the way I did have PND with my last so I can tell the difference more easily between exhaustion and genuine depression, but I don't think there's much in it to be honest, not when you're exhausted. Getting therapy saved me and my daughter from a very miserable time. If you have a sympathetic GP it may not hurt to get some CBT or something. Hope you're ok too.

blossombath It might be worth talking to your HV or GP about possible PND. I think there's some basic checklists they can run through with you by way of quick diagnosis. I have a very, very long history of depression - no PND, thank god, but I'm sure they bear similarities. What you're describing sounds a bit more than just sleep deprivation. Given the role of seratonin in both sleep and depression it's very possible for prolonged sleep deprivation to cause depression. Being genuinely concerned that you might harm your child, and actually harming yourself, albeit in a minor way, is not just sleep deprivation, IMO. You don't necessarily 'feel sad' with depression of any kind which is why people can end up in a completely non-coping state before they're diagnosed.

I'm under no allusions that my antidepressants are playing a major role in helping me to cope with the lack of sleep, so there's no harm in getting it checked out.

blossom, its always hard to judge from one post but you do sound like you are having a hard time. Doesn't mean it's pnd by any stretch but at the very least it sounds like you need to find a way to let your dp help you more. Yes, it may mean he ends up a bit tired too but that's life, you can't do it all on your own.

I don't know if this is helpful but me and my dp have a kind of division of labour, which means we both know what we need to do when and avoids us needing to discuss it or worry about asking when we are all sleep deprived and rattie. So I do the night feeds (as I bf) and do the settling and most of the sitting awake in the night but dp does all the night nappy changes (I wake him up when one is required, he never ever complains) and when dd wakes up at 6am he takes her and allows me to stay in bed for a bit if I need to. On the days we're both at home he will often do most of the childcare at the moment and always let's me have at least a couple of hours nap to catch up on some sleep.

This set up seems to be working well for us and means that we both get through without losing the plot and also that we both feel supported and part of a team, which I know sounds a tad trite but makes a huge difference to me.

Perhaps you need to sit down with your dp and work out ways in which your dp can help you. I don't know what his work is or what his hours are like but even if it's just that he changes some nappies in the night and looks after DC on Sunday mornings so you can stay in bed for a bit this might be enough to make the difference. If you agree it then you can make sure you have an arrangement that works for both of you. Whether you have pnd or not he is going to have to start doing more or you are all going to end up in a pickle.

Also, my dd does the fingers I'm mouth thing when I'm settling her to sleep, it is bloody annoying!

Oh you poor thing blossombath I know what it's like to feel crazed and frustrated wirh no sleep.

I had PND with DD1 and, although I know we are all different, it was pretty obvious to me that I had it (despite desperatley trying to deny it for some stupid reason) I cried every morning, didn't want to get out of bed, felt guilty for not wanting to get out of bed, did minimal interation with DD, felt guilty, went into interaction overboard, did nothing around the house, and disappeared to my bedroom as soon as DH got home.

I can honestly say I don't have it this time around (thank god) but that doesn't mean I don't get frustrated. DD2 has a habit of pinching me. Yesterday I lost my temper when she did it, shouted 'Ow!' really loudly and batted her hands away. Only you can know, but it really sounds like you were terribly sleep deprived and at the end of your tether perhaps, as Elphaba suggests you could have a word with your HV? (if she's any good! Thank god mine's marvellous!)

Well yesterday I managed to drag DD2 round Asda to do a full weekly shop. Got it all on the belt, packed it into my bags, and guess what?! Forgot my purse! I'm blaming my sleep deprived state for that Thank goodness my local Asda staff are fab! Really sympathetic and just kept my trolly to one side until I drove hone again! I'm so annoyed about the loss of petrol though! We are heavily rationed when it comes to petrol amd that combined with my nighttime 'get to fucking sleep' driving has reduced my weekly £25 allowance a bit!!

How is your DD Fish?

saymama my dp did exactly the same thing the other week. Came home from the shops empty handed and looking very sheepish :o

Just wondering if any of you lovely ladies had any advice for me...

8 month old LO. He was sleeping beautifully for about 3 months, 7pm-7am with no wakings or feeds, going down well for both naps and bedtimes. But since he started teething (about 3 or 4 weeks ago), and then got a cold, he has decided that 4am-5am is now his wake up time!!

I end up going into his room, picking him up, taking him into my bed where he won't sleep. Lays there wanting to play/pinch my face etc. Then it gets to about 6am and he cries until he falls asleep, which can take an hour sometimes!! Then I always wake him at 7am to have his bottle. Can anyone help? Should I just leave him to cry?

I can't tell you how much I'd pay for DS to sleep from 7pm until 4 or 5am, uninterrupted, in his own room...however...aren't you supposed to deal with early waking by making sure the first nap isn't until around 10am or something?

Thanks for the responses ladies, and for sharing your own experiences. I am pretty sure I don't have full on PND, just a mix of exhaustion and anxiety about returning to work etc. The anxiety is making it hard for me to sleep when DS is asleep so that isn't helping either. I have had CBT in the past for anxiety and it did help so maybe I will go to drs, though I worry they would just try and refer me to sleep clinic or similar for DS.

I know a big part is me letting go and accepting that DH will just have to be tired too. He was all keen to help more for the last two days of his holiday but now he has a stomach bug and is basically a write off. trying hard to remain rational and remind myself that it's not his fault but have to admit I did have a bit of a cry on yet another nap-walk in the rain to tescos today. Thankfully I remembered my wallet...though I have done that several times say, the staff in our local tesco think I'm totally mad.

Welcome on board visualise, I'm a softy so I probably wouldn't leave him to cry just yet - could you try sitting with him in his room so he isn't upset but knows its still night, or letting him play with some quiet toys in his own room with lights low. Hopefully he'll soon grow out of the early wakings!

oh and fish if you're about hope littlefish is doing ok

Seem to have missed a bit while on our Xmas trek. Home tomorrow and looking forward to it, apart from fact that DS has decided to drop his nap.

Ill catch up properly but Fish - hope you and baby fish are doing ok. So easy to happen but so scary for you. Something similar happened toDS when he was wee. Blossom sorry to hear you are having a rough time. Everyone has given great advice. It sounds like you need to give yourself a break if you can.

Sleeping still shit here. When we are finally home and DD is well and not teething for more than 2 days I am going to Do Something. 2014 then...

Wishing you all a happy and hopefully sleep filled new year...

I have to whinge here, otherwise I won't be able to resist posting sarcy comments...there are two threads in a couple of other forums from mums seeking advice who are 'shattered', 'sleep deprived', 'exhausted' and 'on their knees' because their babies are waking once, sometimes twice, a night for feeds.

I know it's not a competition, and I'm sure they're their own versions of 'exhausted' but AIBU to want to post, 'you don't know you're f---ing alive'?

OK, bitch back in the box now.