pick up put down method...HELP!

[brian2]

have made the decision to get tough and sleep train my 10 months ds who has never slept for more than 3 hours in a run, breast feeds to get to sleep and has always slept with me. Ex dp is here for three enights to help (although he says it is entirely my fault that ds does not sleep... hhmm maybe he is right). last night i fed ds to sleep at 7:30 (usual bedtime) put him in his cot (first time in about four months he has been in the cot) and from then on ex dp would cradle him everytime he woke up (roughly every hour)and then put him back down, if he tried to do the pick up put down method of just a quick comfort then put down we had screaming hysterics within seconds. Can anyone properly explain the pick up put down method... do you pick up until they stop crying and then put down and pick up straight away if he cries immediately???? am a bit confused by it all really,am not happy to do controlled crying as it is so upsetting and feel that for a baby that has been breast fed next to his mother on demand usually 2-3 hourly for the last 10 months would find it tooo much of a shock. thanks for any advise, i am physically and emotionlly exhausted so know i need to do something.... not easy though is it!!!

the kind methods don't work with every child, we tried every type of nice comforting method on dd and ended up having to leave her to cry

wouldn't have done it but the situation had gotton to the point where she wasn't sleeping at all and wasn't well because of it.

don't completely abandon like some of the books tell you but leave it a good 15-20 mins each time before you go in, don't do anything but lay them out straight, tuck them in with a teddy and say good night firmly. if they wake up after being asleep, don't ignore them, go in and do the same and just leave them then.

worked in 2 days for dd when nothing else did and now she sleeps 12-13 hours straight every night with no problems and is happier and healthier for it.

good luck

how old was your dd when you did this?

I think 10 months might be too old for htis, as they are going to start crying again straight away. I did this with a newborn and it worked really well, they don't start again immediately. If my dts are playing up at bedtime now, I leave them to cry until they are really worked up, then PU/PD, leave them until they are really worked up again and so on until they fall asleep. So it's more like controlled crying really, but it works. Its very rare that I have to use it now.

she was 11 1/2 months when we did it and she's 14 months now, haven't had any probs since, even now the evenings are bright when she goes down she know when she's put in her cot it's bedtime and seems quite happy to snuggle up with her ted and go to sleep.

same when we go away to visit relatives, before i'd have to spend all night every night upstairs trying to convince her to sleep, now no matter where we are or how overstimulated she's been during the day she settles right down.

Our DD is 16m. We are night 4 of keeping her in her cot. Since Christmas she has been cuddled to sleep and then anywhere between 10.30pm and 4.30am she has ended up in our bed. Rather than pick up and put down we comforted her while she was still in her cot. Telling her that it's bedtime and you are not coming out of your cot. Kind of like a mantra. Night 1 she screamed and screamed for 3 hours. (It was horrible, but like you we knew we needed to do something.) We found when she fell asleep and we tried to leave the room she woke up. So night 2 we put a radio in her room. We succesfully left the room. night 3 when she woke up, we went in gave her, her dummy and gently said lay down, she did and went back to sleep. I was back in bed within 5 mins. Tonight we are going to clip her dummy to her. I think she is waking up because she loses it.

Sorry didn't mean to go on so much, but as long as you stay firm and don't give in it can be turned round quickly.

oh, fazza just reminded me, if you use a dummy definitely clip it on as they'll throw it out to force you to come back!

I did pretty much the same as pink tulip when ds was about 4 months - after one awful night he was much better and within a few days he was sleeping through (still had dream feed at 11pm then) dropped dreamfeed at about 5-6 months and it didn't effect his sleep at all.

He's now 7 months and sleeps like a dream - although everytime I say this I do expect him to give me an awful night.

Controlled crying works, and it works quickly BUT you have to be dedicated to it. It's no good letting ds cry for an hour before you give up and go in as all he's learnt is that he has to cry for an hour before he gets you.

You've got to stick it out until he falls asleep.
Do the same the next night and by the third night he'll probably be sleeping through - honestly!!!!!

We also never go in if he wakes at night (not that he ever does) if he doen't settle on his own (which he does) then one of us will creep in and check he's not ill or twisted in his cot WITHOUT him seeing us.

ok,thanks for that... mabe we should give controlled crying a go. AM DREADING TONIGHT!!!! But hey, this time next week i might be getting more than a couple of hours sleep in a row,now if that's not an incentive!

the way i got through it was by telling myself that not only was it for all our benefits, dd included, but that it had to be done now as it would be damn near impossible when she could escape the cot and run around.

do be warned, lots of kids fall asleep sitting up waiting for you too come back, it's heartbreaking but just be sure you go in when things have been quiet for a while and lay him down and tuck him in.

it is horrible but well worth it for everyones sake, good luck

I applied the controlled crying technique (very similar) with immediate results! The idea is you leave it longer and longer between going in but always repeat the same - quick cuddle (if they are really upset), kisses, teddy, tuck in and leave. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

It can feel just awful doing this at first but there comes a point when you both need a strong bedtime routine and will both be happier for it.

My bible about sleep is Solve your Childs Sleep Problems by Dr Richard Ferber. I found it really helpful but try not to read the stuff that doesn't apply (i.e sleep terrors etc). It just gets you wondering if that is whats really happening!! Good luck.

Good luck for tonight. Got everything crossed for you!

I think PU/PD can be confusing, because they think you're going to stay and then you put them down again. DD always screamed in fury when she was put down. I think Aloha's sleep trainer tried lying on the floor, patting the baby until she fell to sleep? Maybe ex DP could do the patting? But expect quite a lot of crying regardless for the first few nights.

I personally find CC easier and more effective the PUPD. BUT CC does not work for EVERY child. It did not work with DD. Worked brill with DS1 but not DD. I would also echo, if you do CC you have to do it properly and be dedicated to it. If it hasnt worked after one week of doing it properly then I would say it probably isnt going to work. (normally works within 3 nights) Good luck. I am about to do the whole CC with DS2 over the Easter hols. Am dreading it! :(

I tried cc and pu/pd with dd but neither worked as we would always give up after an hour of crying. I have managed to stop feeding at night now (my cut off is 12-5) and she will sometimes manage a 5hour stretch now, but when she wakes we are usually up for 2 hrs. I have started taking her into bed with me now at that time just to get some rest, but I think once I've got her going off to sleep without the feeding I can work on the cosleeping, which tbh I quite like.

will probably be writing on here at 2am whilst tearing my hair out! never thought i'd say it but, thank goodness for ex dp!!! think he will bear the brunt of it. have taken note that it might not work for every baby... in fact that was going to be my next question.... how long would you leave a child to cry in one go, have awful visions of 3 and 4 hour crying episodes.... if he does cry this long should we continue or should i feed him quick???? Anyone want to move in for a few days just to help out?

tbh i would let lo cry for a couple of hours because once you give in then everyones been stressed out for no reason. they've just learnt to cry for a long time.

Its hard but it's cruel to be kind.

ditto to what jmum6 said, don't give in, it's horrible but he'll eventually exhaust himself. there's only so long it can go on for bafore he falls asleep.

one other tip, don't keep the volume on the baby monitor on, turn it right down so you can see the bars move but can't hear or it'll grate on your nerves so much after an hour you'll give in. very important like everyone said not to give up halfway, it's so worth it, for baby and you. hope it's all going well!

ok,this is how it went..............ds went to bed awake following a good breast feed at 7pm. He cried for 1hr ten mins after following the controlled crying method, the last time i went in all i needed to do was lie him down and rub his tummy for 10 secs and he was flat out!!!! That bit was not any where near as hard as i thought it would be, in fact it was easier to stay out of the room as he got more worked up with me there! he woke 4 or 5 times in the night and although the crying was not so intense it was actually harder as it was quite pitiful and yes as one of you said i would often go in to find him sat up right falling asleep and that made me feel really quilty! He eventually slept for 2hrs about 4:30 and then at nearly 7am i fed him.... a relief all round!!! We are all grumpy this morning and hoping that tonight it might be slightly easier,it really was'nt quite as traumatic as i thought it would be as i was expecting him to scream all night, we'll wait and see if he settles quicker tonight!
Thanks for all your advice and support as i think this might be a better way of doing it than pu pd, he was certainly more stressed and it was harder work the night before trying to do it that way!

I'm glad it seems to be working Brian2...can I hijack your thread to ask a question of all these wonderful sleep gurus!!!
DS is 9 weeks old and pretty good at settling himself off to sleep when tired.....or he was!!! He gets tired at 9am like clockwork after a couple of hours of playing...usually just bung him in his cot with a dummy and after a few minutes of grumbling (not crying) he's off. Not this morning...yelled the place down and is now in his baby swing wide awake but knackered. I feel that he is too young to leave to cry (makes me blub!) but I don't want to set myself up for a nightmare in the future.... Any ideas/advice?

as you can see from my thread, i am not the one to give advice but know exactly where you are coming from with the worry about leaving them to cry.... i was neurotic it was a bad thing to do and even leaving him cry for 2 mins would leave me in tears,but i guess that's why i am in the position i am in now! . hope you get it sorted!

brian2, I used CC with Ds1 and it backfired horribly (long story). I am a softie and findWith Ds2, I used PUPD and I have to say it worked really well for me. You know they are only crying from fustration, not fear. I spent about a week with mine, when I did it rigorously (the first few nights (picking up about 50 or more times)at every nap and bed time and it just worked. It's hard work, but no-one sleeps when they're doing CC anyway. Know I'm in the minority, but if you find CC painful, like me, then PUPD is definitely an alternative.

HOM, i definitely wouldn't suggest leaving a 9 week old to cry, they don't have any concept of object permeance like an older baby does so they don't understand your still there even if they can't see you.

are you really against letting him fall asleep in your arms? because to be honest thats probably the best way to settle them at this age, definitely for naps. i'm sure i'd be shouted down for saying this by all the 'let them fall asleep on their own' advocates, but personally i feel a baby that young should be comforted and cuddled whenever they ask, they're still trying to get used to the real world and put themselves in a routine and need alot of reassurance, i wouldn't worry about getting routines sorted til he's much older.

the only other thing would be to make sure he's not hungry as babies go through several growth spurts around 3,8 &12 weeks approx and they do tend to want extraodinary amounts of feeding at these stages.

hope he settles down for you, but don't panic if it doesn't, babies change their habits and routines alot for the first few months.

well done on last night brian2, it does get easier the second night because you know it won't go on forever, so hope all goes as well tonight. hopefully he won't wake as many times during the night tonight, mine didn't the second night so i'll have my fingers crossed for you.

just keep repeating the words 'i can have a full nights sleep when this is done' like a mantra and you'll find the courage to leave him

Oops, sorry brian2, hadn't completely read the thread so I didn't see your post about CC working well the first night!

Brian2 - I'm not feeling so clever now. Last night a total disaster. Would you recommend this cc?