AIBU to ask about DS sleep as there isnt much traffic on the sleep thread?

[catgirl1976]

DS is 7mo. We have some how ended up co-sleeping but it's not what I want

He has no routine really which I am going to start today (bath, wind down, story eyc all at same time each night) but the real problem is that he will fall aslepp on me or DH but the moment his head touches the mattress in his own bed he screams

If we pick him up he stops instantly and falls straight back asleep. Then screams the minute he touches his own bed - this goes on ad infinitum. We have tried putting hm down as soon as he drops off and waiting till he is dead to the world - doesn't make a difference. He won't self soothe

HIs own cot is in our room next to our bed.

How do we break this cycle? I am loathe to do CIO and tbh don't think I could

I think you probably won't change his sleeping habits without some crying, it doesn't have to be full on crying it out but he is probably going to fight against his current routine of falling asleep with you.

I tried a more controlled crying system with DS when he was about that age. Putting him down and then going in to comfort every 5 mins or so. Sometimes my going in would make things worse, sometimes he would calm down only to cry as soon as I left etc. In the end we would put him down and leave him for longer than 5 mins and he would settle after about 10-15mins.

How does he sleep in the day? My DS at that age would only sleep in pushchair or car, but once we cracked the cot at night, he would also sleep there for naps too. The crying is hard to hear but DS quickly adjusted and continues to be a great sleeper (now 3.5).

Thanks Larks

He sleeps ok in the day but normally on me, in his prma when out or someitmes in his travel cot which is in the sitting room

I recommend reading "The baby whisperer". There are 2 potential methods to self soothing.
First - "shush pat". Basically after your routine hold him for a bit saying "shush" whilst patting his back. Then put him down, continuing to do this (well, probably pat his side). If he gets very distressed pick him up again. Repeat as necessary - does take a while the first time and you have to be consistent.

Second - pick up/put down method. Again put baby down sleepy but awake. Stay there. When they get distressed pick them and put down when they are calm again. Like the first method will take ages the first time and you do need to stick at it ... but both methods are easier on you than controlled crying.

you need to stop letting him fall asleep on you during the day and make his cot or pram the place for sleep. at 7 months it might be time to move him to his own room which would also make things easier. look at it from his point of view - cold hard bed or nice warm mummy if i whinge a bit? therefore to break the cycle will take a couple of weeks. i used controlled crying on all 3 of mine and whilst it is hard it works and it gives you back some time to yourselves. He wont self soothe because he hasnt learnt to. others will disagree i know but you need a really good routine that you stick to and you need to put him in his bed to sleep.

I will be a bit different catgirl and say that if you have a baby with a serious cot-bum alarm, patience and time are your only weapons.

I have a DS who refused to sleep in his cot, no matter how sneaky I was. He couldn't self settle. I even tried lying on a ledge alongside the cot and dangling my breast in his mouth sometimes just to try and get him in there. () We all uncomfortable co-slept so we got any sleep.

I wasn't prepared to do any sort of crying because he would vomit down himself when very upset. He still uses this strategy from time to time.

Anyway, we got him a normal single with a rail at 10mo when co-sleeping was too uncomfortable and he kicked us out of bed. He took to that fine as long as one of us would lie down to sleep with him at first. He likes his bed in a way he never liked a cot.

So now he is still rubbish at self-settling, even as a toddler. It takes him ages to wind down and switch off but it's improving little by little.

So my advice would be that nothing is forever and 7mo is young, so it's not unreasonable to like snuggling on your parents. If it's really making you unhappy, my "wait and see" stance probably isn't right for you. But if you are soft like me, it would probably eventually resolve itself.

Thanks for all the advice

I just feel like cc or pick up / put down etc won't work for him - I am sure everyone feels like that though - but how do people get through it?

I am back at work so I can't spend whole nights fighting to get him to sleep. But maybe I need to.

I can see myself doing things like rubys ledge

I really want to get him in his own bed but I just don't know if I could take the crying

How long does it last for in peoples experience?

I'm watching this with interest as I have this problem with my 5mo. I've also done boob dangling into the cot like a cow.

He's a sleep on my knee at moment (well ish - he's feeding but aslepp - if I remove boob he will wake up)

Was advised not to let him sleep after 3pm but how do you keep a baby awake?

i had problems with 2 of my 4dcs

at around 7-8months i cracked form lack sleep/co sharing and put them in cot,in my room

ds wouldnt do cc-he yelled til vomited so i went down the sit with them route-

go in.sit down on the floor.hold hand and rub back with the other one.no eye contact

i found softly singing helped quieten them as they stopped to hear my voice

stay til asleep

after 3 nights stop the singing

2-3 nights later slow down,stop the back rubs

then the hand holding

if baby becomes too distressed,back up to the previous step

once sitting next to teh cot silently with no eye contact is accepted slowly move away each noght a tiny bit til you are by the door,in the door way sitting outside with door open

by the time i was at the doorway with mine we had cracked it

it does take timeso babies can hit a next step everynight and are done in a week,others need longer

at the end of the day you know your baby best and what will work for you both
whatever option you take will require a bit of nerves of steel but you have to look long term when you are tired and sitting by the cot wishing you were anywhere but...

wishing lots good luck whichever option you take

No advice but I'm watching with interest. My 6mo DS was a terrific sleeper from being 10 weeks, used to sleep through from 7-7 with a dream feed at 11. For the past month and a half however the little horror can't seem to go longer than 3 hours without waking up. Not for a feed, just lying there in his cot, rolling around, talking loudly to himself and refusing to resettle.

But the second we get him into our bed he passes out promptly and has to be woken at 7 for his breakfast...

Pick up put down worked really well for us, baby whisperer forums are a great source of advice. It does take a bit of time and dedication, you won't get results straight away but if y persevere it really works. I too didn't like the idea of letting my child cry and not comfort her. With pupd, they cry, but you are always there and responsive to the cry.

Like Redskyatnight we used the BabyWhisperer put down/pick up technique as DD also woke up screaming as soon as she was put in her cot. However, as the book pointed out, for stubborn babies this might have to be repeated a LOT of times. In DD's case it took nearly 30 cycles of soothing, putting down, screaming, picking up..... until she stayed asleep. She then woke up after 2 hrs, fed etc & took another 10 cycles but after that we'd cracked it. Although it took until she was about a year old before she could be put in her cot 'sleepy, but awake' and self-settle.

If you really want him in his cot, then you need to prepare yourself for a least one night with no sleep and persevere. If you try half-heartedly then you could just end up teaching him that if HE's persistent then he'll get what he wants.

Would he fall asleep on a fleecy blanket on you? Then you can put that down on his bed so he's still lying on something familiar and warm. I used to kind of slide mine off me while they were sleeping and gradually move away. We had a bedside cot that made this easier! :) Also have you tried putting a hot water bottle into his/bed cot to make the mattress warm for him? Just make sure you take it out before you put him in.

The 'slide' was in stages btw. If they stirred then I would let them get back on me but they gradually got used to me just lying beside them with my hand on their chest and breathing deeply beside them (it was what they were used to during the night because we coslept too) and then when they were sleeping soundly I could just move away. It took a while by some people's standards but there was no crying involved at all. I think something similar is described in the no cry sleep solution but I hadn't read it at the time.

I found PUPD rubbish - wound ds up. But I could put him down. From 4-5 months I started putting DD in her cot as soon as she slept. I kept a hand on her or rock again if she woke. Now she's happy going in drowsy but we cosleep from 10pm when I come to bed.

Would he sleep on his tummy? That's the only way I could get dd or ds down in their cots. Putting them on their backs didn't work.

If he's faing asleep at 6.15pm is that his bedtime? Can you work your routine backwards from there?

45 mins crying whilst I cried in room next door.
Did it at 6 weeks old with both DD and DS.
Both have always gone to sleep alone and both with just a mussie for comfort ever since.
It was HARD!
By 7 months, I imagine it would be even harder.
In your shoes, I'd go for shush pat. Like fleecy blanket and hot water bottle idea.

I like the fleecy blanket idea!

I think 6:15ish is his bedtime, but I dont get home till gone six and then he needs feeding, bathing, and some love and attention

I think I will wait till a night where I dont have to get up the next day and pick something and try it

But I do like the blanket idea

shattered dreams. You left your babies alone to cry it out at 6 weeks?! I'm sorry but that's absolutely horrific! :(

cat girl, I hope it works for you. Maybe you could sleep with it yourself for a few nights so it smells nicely of mummy too! :)

bubbleymummys suggestions are great, i wrapped mine in a sheet and laid next to them and then slid/crept away once a sleep, can you put the cot by the side of your bed so you can lay with him and then sneak away, yes to the hot water bottle to warm up the cot.

and lie next to him and pat shushh if he stirs, i promise it gets better.

and cc is not recomended for under 6mtsh infact most hv etc wont recomend it until 12mths + now and cio well, neither are something i could do.

we went for sleeping with them adn then a little toddler bed next to our bed and gently teaching them to sleep on their own, reassurance when needed, all 5 of mine sleep well, no crying involved :)

Hi Catgirl,

Your DS sounds like mine.

I tried every technique possible and nothing worked. I gave up and just carried on co sleeping and letting him sleep on me during the day. At the advice of a Consultant we put him in a cot in his own room at 10 months. The first night he was a pain the 2nd night he slept through the night for the first time ever. It was like a miracle! It was all down to when he was able to do it. I wish I had not stressed and worried so much as is sorted itself with minimal input from me. Not a particularly helpful post but I hope it gives you some reassurance that this phase will pass.

Have you tried making the cot a nice place to be? My dd2 was a nightmare and someone recommended letting her play in her cot when awake and not at a nap time. This really helped it become a comfortable/happy place. I then used to put her in it for naps and hold her hand until she went to sleep. It did take ages though, sorry! I wouldn't have ever been able to cc. Oh, also making sure she was shattered sometimes helped too. I think I remember only letting her have a short nap (1 hour rather than her usual 2) the first few times I wanted her to sleep in her cot so she was def ready at night times.

Thanks essex that is helpful as its good to know even with a stubborn baby it will pass one day

It will pass. Have you tried anything the last couple of nights?

Last night I ended up in hospital (am fine) but had to have an injection which meant I couldnt bf in the night

I knew DS would not settle if he couldnt root and feed, so I bought a dummy. I've been a dummy snob up to now tbh and avoided on as I don't like the look of them, but he slept like a dream! Didn't wake up once............

The dummy was meant to be a one-off whilst on the meds but am now thinking, well if it works..............he could just have it at night............am very tempted! Was amazing to sleep without someone rootling around my boobs all night :) He slept so soundly, I think he might go in his own cot with it, although didn't try last night as was pretty ill and didn't feel up to the struggle if it didn't work...........

Not a method I would have thought I would try but.............will keep you posted

Unless anyone has any dire words of dummy warning?