Has anyone successfully managed to get baby DCs to fall asleep in cot by themselves at night/for naps without using controlled crying?

[Somersaults]

If so, how?

DD is 6.5mo. She falls asleep bfing which in itself doesn't bother me but the very second I move she wakes up again. I've tried waiting 20mins, I've tried waiting for up to an hour but nine times out of ten she wakes and I have to start all over again. It's taking hours to put her to bed at night. Thankfully once she does go down she usually sleeps until gone 5am.

In addition to this she will not nap in the day. She spends the day cranky and irritable, yawning and rubbing her eyes but will not nap unless she falls asleep on me feeding and only then until the instant I move. It takes 20-30mins of driving for her to fall asleep in the car and then she wakes up within five minutes of stopping even if she's left in her carseat. It takes over an hour for her to fall asleep if I walk out with her in the pram, longer if I don't cover it over with a muslin so she can't see out, and she wakes up within minutes of arriving back home/stopping pushing.

I know she's massively overtired because she's cranky all the time. She screams if I leave the room. She screams as soon as I lie her in the cot awake or asleep. Shush/pat doesn't seem to work-she continues screaming even if I'm there.

I'm on my own in the daytimes and I'm not strong enough to go through controlled crying/cry it out because I honestly don't want her to cry. I looked at pick up/put down but I read it as when they're calm put them down and leave the room until they start crying again. With DD I don't even have the time it takes to turn my back before she starts crying!

Can anyone help? There must be a way that doesn't involve crying. I'm going more and more insane everyday as I lose another day trying unsuccessfully for morning nap, having lunch, trying unsuccessfully for afternoon, dealing with a cranky, overtired baby until teatime, bathing etc then spending hours trying to get her to sleep. I can't even pinpoint where it all went wrong. She didn't used to feed to sleep and somehow now I'm stuck and losing my mind.

Lots of time !

DD used to feed to sleep so gradually, over a couple of weeks, I started pulling her off the boob so she could fall asleep in my arms

Then we moved to pulling off the boob, to putting her in the cot and patting her bum until she went o sleep

And finally putting her down with a cuddly

It took 2 weeks or so, and I did it with naps first so the nights kind of fell into place as she was used to being put down awake

She was around 4 months old so younger than your DD

Try to get hold of the No Cry Sleep Solution book and google the pantley pull off - v good and gentle advice

Firstly sympathies I have a 4 month old and it can be so frustrating when they just won't sleep!
For me what has helped is lying down with him in my bed for nap times. I would feed to sleep then nod off myself for a bit till he woke up. Didn't get a lot done! But got him used to napping at certain times.
Then tried pulling him off the boob just as he was getting really sleepy but keeping his face pressed against me if you see what I mean? It was the closeness he wanted more than anything.
When I started putting him in his cot for naps I would have to sit there with him with my hand on his back for his entire nap otherwise he woke up. That went on for a few days until he got used to sleeping in his cot and then I was able to start leaving the room.
Now he sleeps in his cot for naps fine and starts the night in his cot but usually ends up in bed with me in the night as I get exhausted and give in!
We are getting there but it takes a lot of time. Sorry not much help but hopefully someone else will have the magic solution!

Googled Pantley Pull Off which sounds like a good start and will maybe try eBay for the book. At this point anything is worth a try!

pull off/gradual withdrawal is a definitely a good technique to use. The thing is atm, your dd only knows how to fall asleep on the boob. So when she wakes to find you have put her down, she is inevitably distressed b/c she isn't where she was when she fell asleep (i.e. in your arms) & she hasn't got the boob right there to comfort her. By gradually withdrawing the feeding to sleep, she will start to learn how to fall asleep on her own & this will undoubtedly improve things for you.

We actually used sssh/pat successfully at 3/4 months with my DS who at the time was being cuddled to sleep in my arms. We had a really awful couple of weeks while we did it, b/c crying is inevitable when you change up the rules on them. Over a few weeks we gradually reduced the ssshing & patting & would just stay with him with a hand on him til he fell asleep, & then eventually we could pop him in the cot awake & leave the room.

WRT pick up put down, you can still use it on your dd! If she starts crying as soon as your back is turned, pick her straight back up, hold til she calms & put down. And repeat. If she cries on the way down, while you still have hold of her, you still put her all the way down into the cot, and then you pick her straight back up again. As soon as she calms, put down. If she starts again, pick up. Eventually she will start to show signs of settling (mantra cry) & at this point you leave her be unless she starts up with a distressed cry again.

The key though, with any sleep training technique is perseverance. It takes more than a couple of days for your LO to realise this is now the way things are going to be. It may take a good couple of weeks to sink in, so if you can start with that in mind then you will more likely stick at it. Also many babies can regress - it goes well for a few days & seems to be settling down & then they freak out so many parents assume it hasn't worked. But they are testing you! If you carry on remaining consistent they will get back on track.

Finally one other thing to bear in mind is that routine can often play a big part in how well they settle at sleep times. If your baby is overtired, then she will be much harder to settle. Conversely, if she is not tired enough, she will also be hard to settle. IME, as a young baby my DS would cry hard if he was overtired but crash out reasonably quickly, whereas if he wasn't tired enough he would scream & scream & scream but still not fall asleep!

I wonder if you could post her daytime routine showing roughly when she wakes in the morning, when she naps & how long for & when she goes to bed? It might be we can offer some pointers on helping her nap better during the day as this might help how she settles at night.

HTH.x

I feel your pain. I had exactly the same problem. My mum suggested a dummy which I wasn't keen on but she said it sounded like dd was just using me as a dummy (after she'd eaten her fill). After feeding, when i was happy she'd fed enough and was just sleeping and comfort sucking, i would put her down, pop a dummy in, and hold her hand and either put my hand on her chest or stoke her between the eyes until she was fast asleep. Yes she cried a bit, and yes it took time and a lot of patience (and sometimes we did need to pick up, nappy hange, feed a bit more) but she got there. It will get better :)

Thank you everyone.

Her daytime routine WRT naps varies wildly because it takes anywhere from thirty minutes to a couple of hours to get her to go to sleep and then she doesn't sleep for long at all.

Yesterday she woke at 5ish for a feed, then slept until 7.30am. I tried to put her down for a nap at 10.15. She fell asleep feeding at about 10.45 but was awake again by 11.10 and that was that. After lunch she fell asleep in the buggy after 45 minutes of being pushed around so at around 2.45 but woke up again at 3 when we arrived home. We did bath at 6.30 and she was feeding by 7. I didn't make it downstairs until 8.15pm when she was finally asleep enough to put down without waking her. She woke up at 8.30 and at 9 I put her back down. So she slept 30 mins mid-morning, 15 mins mid afternoon, and then finally went to bed at 9.

Today she woke up at 4.50 for a feed and I fell asleep feeding her. I put her back in her cot when I woke up at 6.30 and she didn't wake on the transfer. She woke up again at 7.30. We tried for a morning nap at about 10.30 and fell asleep feeding. She didn't get to being deeply asleep because bloody DH phoned and the phone woke her up at 10.50. She wouldn't feed or sleep after that. This afternoon we tried for a nap at 2.30 feeding to sleep but she was fighting me and squirming all over the place. In the end I took her into our bed and fed her lying down holding her close and after a loooooong time she fell asleep about 3.45. She woke up at 4. We did early bath tonight at 6 because she was such a massive grouch. She fell asleep feeding really quickly tonight and was in her cot by 7.30. She then woke up again about 7.45 and I came down from feeding her at about 8.30. She's been asleep since then. So today she slept lightly for 20mins mid morning, 15 mins late afternoon and then finally went to bed about 8.30.

I feel like if we get one thing cracked, either bedtimes or naps, then everything else will kind of fall into place because good daytime sleep helps good nighttime sleep and vice versa.

I googled mantra cry and can't say that I can immediately 'hear' a cry of hers like that in my head. I'm going to have to listen out over the next few days and identify it. Her cries seem to just escalate the longer I leave her, I don't recall one that has slowly subsided.

We'll start by trying pulling off and see if she can slowly begin to settle herself to sleep even in my arms. That will be a step in the right direction I think. Then we can deal with leaving her in the cot awake. That seems like it'll be a much bigger hurdle to deal with. She seems cot-phobic. She cries everytime I put her in it awake.

Ooooh, and while I'm asking a million other questions why not one more... is it better to keep her cot completely clear of toys etc so it's definitely only for sleep (which I've read in one book) or keep things in there for her so she sees it as a nice place to be (which I've read in another book!). She's got a mobile in there (which we don't use), a lullaby light show which we use when we're getting her ready for bed and then it plays out when I start feeding until it goes off, a little cuddly toy and my mum also cot her a cot activity centre which makes noises and flashes lights when she hits buttons. That has been in the cot but is out of it at the moment!

My LO falls asleep in his own cot - alot of it is catching him before he gets cranky. The BW says you have to get to bed by their third yawn. This works a treat for us.

I generally hold him until he's gone a bit floppy, then lay him down and stay with my hand on his chest for about 3 minutes. Works about 8 out of 10 times.

I'd keep the cot clear mainly due to worrying about suffocation. The days you describe sound pretty normal, it will improve just try and rest when you can. Babies are exhausting!

One piece of advice which really helped me was to follow 2-3-4 hour rule wrt naps. So baby goes down 2 hours after waking, then 3 hours after 1st nap, then 4 hours awake time til bed.

Maybe try putting her down for nap sooner, say 9.30, even if she doesnt seem tired. This works well with my ds who is 9 months, and it was a revelation when I realised I was trying to get him to sleep when he was already overtired!

Def agree with putting her down earlier. At this age, I'd go for 9.30 if she's waking at 7am. Hopefully, she'll sleep for 30 mins or so which will refresh her enough to get through to lunch and back to bed about 12.30. My DD would have 2 hrs, then bed at 7pm.

She sounds like she's in a horrid cycle of overtiredness which you already mention. Don't wait to put her down until you think she's tired enough to sleep. This can work against you as they're so wired they can't sleep. Also try an early bedtime if you think she's too tired by the end of the day. I have done bedtime as early as 6 before!!

Also, if you can get her sleeping longer periods, it's worth having a few days of letting her sleep as long as she wants to catch up on the sleep deficit. I wouldn't do this long term as it can create the opposite problem of under tiredness (been there, done that!), but that does depend on your opinion on waking from naps.

Hope that helps.

Good advice from everyone I think. I tried putting her down earlier today but I still can't get her to fall asleep! When I put her down at 9.30, any advice on how to get her to actually fall asleep?!

ouch.

it does get easier, honestly.

is co-sleeping (co-napping!) an option?

Co-napping works eventually to get her to go to sleep but then I have to stay on the bed with her the whole time because she's rolling all over the place and would without a doubt roll off within seconds if she woke up and I wasn't there.

Co-sleeping at night isn't really an issue because once she finally goes to sleep she sleeps fine in her cot until early morning (5.30-6.30ish) and the feeds and naps in our bed until about 7.30.

I'm looking on Amazon now at the no-cry sleep solution book and noticed that Elizabeth Pantley also has a book called the No Cry Nap Solution. Does anyone have any experience with that book? Is it worth getting as well as the sleep book or does it just regurgitate the same stuff? I just don't want to pay postage on two separate packages on Amazon so I'll buy them together if people think it's worth bothering with both!

I do really, really appreciate everyone's help and advice so far. You're keeping me sane (well, you, coffee, chocolate and tonight a chinese takeaway!).

Quick update: about 30mins total naps today despite a good couple of hours of trying! Bedtime though was fab compared to usual! The Pantley pull off took a fair few attempts but she fell asleep without feeding. I put her in the cot almost straight away and shush patted her and she settled within a couple of minutes. She woke up about half an hour later crying so I went and to shush pat but no success after quite a while of trying so fed again, PPOd again and settled her quickly in the cot again. Much better even if it took two attempts!

Just the naps to crack now!

Sounds exhausting!!! DD is 7mo and generally I feed to sleep but I've just stopped BF and moved onto FF so obviously it doesn't quite work the same. I've found that on occassion she will not want any more but won't go to sleep. Sometimes signing works or I play rockabye baby on youtube or relaxation music for babies, I think she finds it soothing. My latest trick is to take her into our room and to lay he on the bed, I'll lie next to her and close my eyes pretending to sleep. Usually she'll have a kick around and lots of eye rubbing and after 20 mins she'll drift off, then I scoop her onto my shoulder and put her in her cot, goodness knows why it works but it seems to so far!

Somer it sounds like you're having a really rough time! We had a similar problem when dd was 5mo. I posted a thread about it here.

What I found with my dd (though they're all different so you have to find what works for you and yours) was carrying her round in the sling as a wind-down. At the start this wind-down period was crucial to her being able to fall asleep and stay asleep. So I watched like a hawk for her first cue (which I now see is actually a nose rub rather than a yawn) and then put her in the sling (I use a ring sling now for this purpose) until she was v quiet and still and yawned, then took her upstairs and fed her till just asleep whist shhing and patting or stroking (I actually use long, calm shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh for the whole of my out breath as dd really needs all the help she can get to calm down and quick sshing didn't seem calm enough) and then when I put her down she stirred a little so I'd either help her find her thumb or give her my finger - continuing to shhhhhh and pat/stroke. It took about 2 weeks for her to really get it, but now we have no problems with daytime naps. Whilst she was 'getting it' I still ended up with her sleeping on me sometimes as she often woke up crying before she'd had enough sleep.

For us the keys were calming her down enough, and putting her down not quite asleep so she just about knew she was in her cot. I still use the same wind down routine now, and we still feed almost to sleep as she is a tension increaser so this works for us. I can't say I found the No Cry Sleep Solution particularly helpful in my situation but I have a friend who used many of he techniques to great effect! What I did like about it was the slowlyslowly approach. If your dd is really overtired then you might need to have a few days just doing anything to keep her asleep so she catches up, otherwise you may struggle.
HTH in some small way!

This morning she was wide awake by 6.15 so we got up about 7 and decided that morning nap would be at 9. So 9am rolled around, we put her in the pram and set off for a nap/walk in the rain. It took until gone 10am for her to fall asleep! We got home about 10.20 with her still asleep but had to keep popping back outside to jiggle the pram as she kept starting to cry. At about 10.30 I went back out for another walk to settle her back down and she ended up sleeping until 11.15 so she had just over an hour which I was pleased with. It took a lot of work from us but it worked.

Three hours after that was 2.15 so we bundled her into the carseat and took the pram base out shopping. She was still wife awake when we parked the car but fell asleep at about 2.45 once we started walking around. At 3.15 she woke up crying and no amount of rocking would calm her.

So an hour this morning and half an hour this afternoon. It's not perfect but it's an improvement :)

Oh, but after a good bedtime last night she woke up at midnight! She's not done that for months. I'm thinking maybe it was her teeth bothering her. A quick feed and the PPO technique meant she was back down by 12.15 though. I'll let you know how it goes tonight!!

Daytimes are improving a bit now that I'm getting her down for a morning nap. She slept from 9.30-11ish today by co-napping. She still only had 30mins this afternoon, again from 2.45-3.15. Any ideas on how I can extend that?

Bedtimes are going well with PPO but she's waking regularly in the night. She's not pooed since Wednesday and I think that's why she's waking. She keeps straining and crying poor baby. Last night when she woke at 3.30 crying for the fourth time since bedtime I brought her into our bed and she slept with me until morning. It's hard to do this sort of stuff when she's ill. I just feel like she needs hugs and comfort so I've relaxed a bit in the night. Might take her to gp tomorrow if no poo by then.

Well done - that's great progress so far! How did you get on today?

I also find that dd naps better in the morning - sometimes even now her afternoon naps are just 30 mins (todays was just half an hour ) Though it's more often when she's going through a developmental leap (like now), or unwell. I just try to persevere and keep re-settling her. I must say that even after I got her napping in her cot she was quite a short napper, but one day something just seemed to click with her and she suddenly started napping for an hour at a time - some would still consider this short, but I'm pretty happy with it!

Saw gp this morning after another restless night and got lactulose for DD. unfortunately the appt clashed with morning naptime so she fell asleep about 10.40 and woke up at 11.15. We had an earlier afternoon nap because she was so tired and she slept from 1.45-2.45 ish. Things are improving although saying that we started bedtime at 6.30 and I'm still trying to get her to go to sleep now! She had finally pooed this evening though so hopefully will have a better night once she eventually goes down.

Just want to say it does get easier - we did CC for nightimes which worked but DD barely napped and was overtired. She also slept on the boob so tried to set a time for a nap and did same bedtime routine as night time (but no bath!) and she gradually got it. It took a good month of me not going out and sticking to the routine at nap times.

Now aged 12 months she actually gets excited getting into her sleeping bag and hearing the lullaby and she sings/moans herself to sleep.

I would NEVER have believed this would happen 6 months ago but just be persistent and remember you are teaching your child the art of falling asleep - it will take time and sometimes you do have to let them cry and learn how to settle themselves.

Keep positive, your little one will get there :-)

So tonight we PPOd and she fell asleep without feeding eventually. Then woke up as I put her in the cot but was very calm so I kept my hand on her for a while then just stood by the cot for a whole, now I'm sitting next to it and she still isn't bloody well asleep! I've been here nearly an hour. She swings from being silent and calm to being whiny. Please tell me this will not go on all night. Please tell me she'll fall asleep on her own eventually.

Ok, now she's actually screaming. What's my next move?!

Cuddle her to sleep. Sometimes you have to take the quick option.

I'm feeding her again now. I feel like a total failure at this. I've been trying for two weeks now and I've still been up here two and a half hours tonight and she's still not asleep. I could cry.