Such awful awful nights

[celandine]

DS2 is 8 weeks, bf and is very unsettled at night leaving me knackered each day and in tears with him each night.

Last night he fed at 9pm, 11.30-1am, stayed awake til 2am, fed at 3.30 - 4.30, 5.30, 6 and 7am. He often does a good stretch between 9pm and 1am but then it all goes downhill and I can't seem to settle him after his feeds. He will feed both sides, and then his eyes pop open and he will root for more. He won't take a dummy. We both end up crying and I feel at a loss of what to do to get him back to sleep after his feeds. He ends up in bed with me but it doesn't make him go to sleep any more.

I just cannot go on like this as am averaging 5 hours a night with a 2.7 year old to look after too.

Any advice?

Hi, Just wanted to see how you are doing,sorry if i made a silly suggestion. Snowleopard's advice seems like it could be the key for you. My friend had a similar problem with her DS and did get him to take from the bottle after a few tries. I think it was a big help that her dh could take a bit of pressure off. When he was a few months older,her HV suggested a dummy aswell.
I hope you get a better night tonight.

Just wondering how it went, Celandine?

Celandine, hope the bottle feed went well! Don't worry if it didn't, we had to try a some different things with dd. If the formula didn't go down too well, try a different brand (they apparently taste different). The teat made a big difference, dd didn't like Avent at all, so I found a smaller softer Tommee Tippee one (I think it's tracy hogg who writes about finding a teat that is as similar to your nipple as possible!). Also, the evening bottle feed was the most difficult initially whilst still bf, as baby is tired - might be worth trying a dream feed with the bottle first?

well, I'm pleased to say he took the bottle (avent) easily at 10pm and drank 5oz within 20 mins, still wanted more so gave him mini-breast feed too. He then slept until 2am so a good 3.5 hour stretch of sleep, though not that impressive - in fact he's slept much longer after a breastfeed. I felt quite sad watching him feed from a bottle as it was the first time he'd ingested something not directly created by me (apart from calpol!).

He settled well after his 2am feed but then was restless again after his 5am feed so again came into bed with me and I had only 5 hours sleep. I also think I realise why he's persistently unsettled and squirmy after his second night feed - he always poos during it or after it. And it's a LOT of poo, like he saves it up all day just to do it in the middle of the night . I don't change him (mean mummy?) as it's so close to morning and i don't want to wake him up more. I guess I have little control over this nocturnal habit so i just have to watch and see if things change.

I need to go to bed earlier really but am finding it great to have him in bed around 8pm so that I can sort out some stuff for myself downstairs.

So will i do the bottle again? Not at the moment as it really made little difference, but I am tempted to after 3 months, which is in 3 weeks' time, so that dh can do a late feed and I can go to bed earlier. By then I think I will be struggling if I'm still only getting 4-5 hours a night. The reason I want to make it to 3 months is because I was bf for 3 months so it's a kind of target for me to match that.

Right, up to feed him again soon. night all, thanks for the great support and advice here still.

Louly, your suggestion wasn't at all silly. It's quite likely such an obvious thing wouldn't occur to me!! But he really is ok in his basket, though soon enough I guess we'll move hm to a cot and that will be another story. Thanks.

Hey celandine, well it was worth a try! I thought I would mention to you that my dd took the first bottle we ever gave her, but then we didnt try again subsequently for weeks. The next time we tried (and ever since) little dd bluntly refused a bottle, even of breast milk. If you can, I would try giving dd a little bottle of something every week or so. If you dont want to give formula you could express, just so they get used to it if you ever need it. I wish I had as I would LOVE it if my dh could do a night feed!

Celandine, I cried when hubby gave dd a bottle for the first time! But it's made such a big difference I don't regret it - in fact I wish I'd done it sooner. It took a few days for dd to settle into the new way.

Suzysooz, a friend had the same problem with her ds, he absolutely refused a bottle after not having it for a few weeks. In the end he decided he didn't want breast anymore and only wanted bottle!

jazzyp - i felt like crying too! I still feel rather strange about it, though this is now tainted with the temptation to do it again because of what both you and suzysooz are saying about refusal to take bottle later on.

Last night not good again, ds awake from 1-3, then awake again at 4.30 then umnsettled in bed with me til 7am

Hi
Just a little tip i found worked for me.
Focus on the amount of sleep you have had rather than what you haven't!
Eg Yippee! I had 2 hours sleep in one go rather than - i was awake for 6 hours!
Makes you really appreciate when you get 3 hours sleep!

Iozzy, I think you have said it ALL! We can all feel bitter and tortured about lack of sleep and it's only if you feel positive about getting ANY sleep at all that you are able to stop feeling like you're going mad!

Once you're up it's three spoons of coffee in the cup and don't agonise about what's gone before...my SIL used to drive me mad, would regale us with tales of all the wakings she had with DS and had a real 'cross to bear' attitude about it. I had a year of a very wakeful boy so I do know what it's like but the only way I could cope was as I've said, to be positive - if I got five hours a night, GREAT. Better than one or two hours...which I have had some nights of...

I hope it doesn't come accross as me saying, it's not that bad so don't go on about it - it's just a way to make this difficult time more bearable.

Iozzy, I think you have said it ALL! We can all feel bitter and tortured about lack of sleep and it's only if you feel positive about getting ANY sleep at all that you are able to stop feeling like you're going mad!

Once you're up it's three spoons of coffee in the cup and don't agonise about what's gone before...my SIL used to drive me mad, would regale us with tales of all the wakings she had with DS and had a real 'cross to bear' attitude about it. I had a year of a very wakeful boy so I do know what it's like but the only way I could cope was as I've said, to be positive - if I got five hours a night, GREAT. Better than one or two hours...which I have had some nights of...

I hope it doesn't come accross as me saying, it's not that bad so don't go on about it - it's just a way to make this difficult time more bearable.

Hey Celandine,
Sorry to hear things still tough. I understand how you feel about the bottle as I felt the same with both of mine. I cried quite a few times, especially when I had to do it. Unfortunately, I have been really unlucky with bf both times which is truly frustrating as I am such an advocate for the cause.
Speaking of my friend who had similar issues with sleep; her ds was more of a snacker with the breast and she believes this to be the cause of her wakeful nights. I would agree with Iozzy and Sparkle, to try to gleen the positive from the negative. I wonder if you have any support in family or friends, so that maybe you could catch a nap during the day. I know this is not always possible but may help to recharge your batteries. Perhaps it may be better to keep trying with the bottle as it may not be an overnight success but may resolve in the end?

I think it is more important to have a happy, thriving baby than to feel good cos you have breastfed - even if its not doing the trick.

I came to this conclusion after my daughter who was born prematurely and had been in Special Care for several weeks was at the stage where she could learn to feed. I had been quite poorly and really wasnt producing enough milk. I went through agonies of guilt and upset. I was desperate to do the right thing (breastfeed).

One of the neo natal nurses took pity on me and advised bottle or mixed feeding - what good an upset mum and a hungry baby? When I said I felt guilty the nurse said that since I was a mum now I would probably feel guilty about something half the time anyway. She was right. It worked like a charm. I had my dd home within a week and she started piling weight on.

Another tip was that dummies are not evil. Lots of babies just want to suck for comfort. They sleep much better when they are in charge of a dummy. They even say now that dummies are good for them.

We all have to do what's best for the baby. It isn't easy. I learned that the baby will still thrive and adore you even if you are not as "perfect" as you would like to think you should be.

xx

lozzywilk and sparklemagic, i know what you mean about focusing on the positive side of things. I do find it hard to accept his current sleeping pattern at night however because I feel that it's probably something I could improve somehow. I also fear it's something I'm doing wrong like bf him whenever he wakes up, or letting him suck on me too long when we co-sleep.

He woke every 2 hours from 9pm last night and took an hour to settle each time. If I knew that it was absolutely him and not me responsible then I could accept it more easily. It also seems to be getting worse rather than better which again seems to indicate it's something I am doing which is encouraging this waking.

ANyway, I'm coping ok at the moment. I do seem to be shouting at poor ds1 more cos I'm that much less patient, but the weeks are flyign by so fast that I'm clinging to the hope that one night things might improve, or someone might suggest a miracle cure in response to my moaning!

lusciouslynda, if only he would take a dummy I'd be hapy for him to have it for a few months

I have fully read the first half of this but not read the rest of the replies so might be repeatung somebody.

This sounds very much to me like a slight digestive/colicky reaction. They will suckle like crazy at around this time if it is this. Try letting him suck your little finger and if that also settles him then you know it is not hunger. Dummies, I find, are a bit hopeless with little ones tbh.

Sucking helps babies relax if they have abdominal pain/wind or need a poo! Does he poo in the morning?

If it does turn out to be a touch of colic the best thing I have used (and nothing is really perfect) is colief and little finger sucking along with the swaddling you are alread doing. You are not so far from the colicky stage being over either.

Would be interested to hear your thoughts onmy suggestions!

My son did exactly the same as yours. I put it down to a growth spurt that lasted 8 weeks and colic. He suddenly became much better at about 3 months. The colic disappeared and he settled into a 3 hourly feeding regime, with 1 longer stretch from 8-1. I don't think that anything I could have done would have helped. Tried giving an extra bottle of formula in the evening, dream feeding and cluster feeding. Ended up sleeping in with him because I got too exhausted to get up every half an hour to feed him.

hi try a top up bottle after you have fed. at night i take sma milk powder in a container and a couple of pre or home sterilised bottles with the correct amount of boiled water in them to bed and after i have fed I do a quick mix up bottle fed or if dd not co operating cup feed. It has always given me those few hours extra sleep and i stop the breast after 40 mins as apparently they get what they need in the first ten mins and get too knackered to feed properly and i then express the rest out(if too lazy to put in fridge chuck in morning) to keep up my supply fingers crossed it has worked so far and on DD3 three weeks old. Music was the other trick I play it for about 9 mins settle them again 9 mins etc either they get bord trying to scream over it or they are actuallu lulled off to sleep. I have a little music box and can't think what id do with out it. swaddling was good but i have to say DD1 had a patch of colic it started at 3 weeks but we did some canial ostiopathy and i checked my diet and did a top up bottle at 6pm followed by a cuddle and a dummy untill the 11pm feed and it cleared in 10 days. the clare byam cook book is good "what to expect when you are brest feeding and what if you cant?" tips advise some will be old news but it game me a plan of action and was really sensible. hope some thing here might help.Also remember they all grow up and have no idea of what we go though to get them there. So chill and enjoy the music too lie in bed forget the house work every one can live on pizza for a year do some thing nice for you. I taken up feeding and top up feeding in the the bath so relaxing and we both sleep soundly after and i dont flood the bed with milk.

MumtoBen, i think my ds has also ended a 10 week long growth spurt since birth. Now almost 3 months and things have improved markedly for day and night sleeps. He's going for longer between feeds day and night now around 3-4 hours. He's settling back down so much easier now afte his feeds, though still disruptive every night after last feed around 4am cos of wind and poo.

chalkie, thanks for great advice here. I've tried giving formula twice and he does go longer but the main issue now seems to be purely his unsettleness around 4-7am so the formula won't help that. Music around bedtime is anothe good idea and i'm a musicbox collector so you've inspired me to consider using one as a sleep cue!

Nannyme, I think your suggestions about ds having a colicky/digestive reaction are actually spot-on. That's exactly what disturbs him and keeps him awake and needing to suck on me. Still won't take a dummy, what a pain, and so he just wakes up farty and needing a poo shortly after his last night feed around 4am. Hopefully this will settle soon.

Thanks everyone for their help in this. Still only getting 5 hours most nights but things are definitely improving.