Overtired of under tired? 11mo naps..

[jaffa19]

My ds is becoming tricky to put down after lunch and the last 2 day's I've fed/cuddled him to sleep, something I've never really done.

He wakes at 630, sleeps approx 930-10, and then I usually try to put him down 2.5 hrs after that, after a good lunch.

Last few days he's just gone into his cot and had a bit of a party with his few soft toys, got himself into a random position he can't get out of in his sleeping bag, then or upset and screamed the place down until I go in Nd comfort him with a cuddle or a bf. once we get to this point he WILL NOT be put down until he's deeply asleep in my arms.

And then we have te problem of the 30minute nap which is a whole other story and I've kind of given up on lengthening it.

So am I putting him down to early and he's just not ready for a sleep? We have a short nap routine that usually winds him down quite well.

Thanks all

Could you try moving the morning nap later until it coincides with one long nap around 11.30?

I'm not sure he's ready for that - some days he still has three naps! He's shattered by 930 and I also think maybe he wouldn't sleep well without a big lunch in his tummy?

I also find that if he wakes up any time before 230 then he needs a third nap to keep him going to bed time. Although I suppose I could do two naps at 11 and 3 ish?

What do you think?

Hmm. His morning nap, does he wake himself or do you wake him at 10? Just thinking you could make that one longer instead and then, yes, another hour or 90 minutes at 1 or 2pm maybe?

I never wake him! He just doesn't do long naps. Hence I am still putting him down three times a day sometimes - it's exhausting! Today he slept 945-1015, and actually he's been down 45 minutes now this lunchtime which is rare... Fingers crossed he doesn't wake.

I think he maybe isn't quite ready for his lunch nap after just 2.5 hrs - how long should a 11mo manage awake between naps?

OP - what time is his bedtime usually? is his lunchtime nap also 30mins? How does he wake in the morning - happy & chatty or crying? And what about after his 30min morning nap - is he happy/crying after that too?

In our house 30min naps were usually a sign of overtiredness so I'd be interested to hear your answers to my questions. It may be he's doing a naturally shorter nap in the AM, but then perhaps he's not quite ready to sleep for his afternoon nap at 12.30 anymore. You may consider delaying that naptime slightly to say 12.45 or 1pm & see if he settles any better. If you can get him taking a longer nap here, then he won't need that 3rd nap anymore.

I've found my 10mo generally won't go down for a nap until 3 or more hours after the last one.

His bedtime is between 630 and 7. He wakes happy in the morning, sometimes can be a little grumpy after the morning nap but usually fine. He's only slept Half an hour in the morning since about 5 mo. Usually wakes crying after lunchtime nap.

Between 6-9months he slept 1.5hrs at lunch, but since he started napping more in his cot this has dropped down to 30mins again.

Sometimes I think he's overtired but More often than not I think he just doesn't need very much sleep...

He's just woken now after 50mins, chatting happily away in cot. Now I don't know whether to give him a 3rd sleep....

Also he recently started night waking again after a nice long stretch of sleeping all the way through...

Well in the end he didn't have a pm nap but fell asleep feeding at 615!

Only just seen this but my advice would have been to avoid the 3rd nap & do an early bedtime instead. I think at this age, having a 3rd nap in the late afternoon is only likely to cause either bedtime resistance, night wakings (wanting to play) or early waking.

So he napped a bit longer today didn't he? Did you put him down a wee bit later??? If so I would perhaps try repeating that for the next week & see if that lunchtime nap starts to lengthen. If it doesn't then we can reasess.

What do you think?

Yes we'll try that, thank you omama. You've helped me before, you are my sleep guru!

Unfortunately this evenin he's woken at 945, so unlike him, and dh and I were out for dinner! Such bad timing. Never happens. Am currently en route back home to a screaming, scared baby. Babysitter doesn't know what to do :( I wonder if it's because he skipped his afternoon nap?

Gaahh this is a nightmare

I think he was massively overtired yesterday. He was awake for an hour in the end, until I got back and fed him to sleep. Then he woke at 550 this morning. so if night wakings, short naps and early waking are a sign of overtiredness, then he's definitely overtired. But what do I do about it?!

ok so I know he was awake last night for a while, but all in all his night length wasn't so bad when you consider what time he went down for the night. As for today, I would stick to your guns with nap 9.30-10 & try & repeat what you did yesterday & see how long he sleeps at lunchtime. If he sleeps for 30mins or less, I'd probably offer him a very short nap at around 4pm of 30mins max but ideally more like 15mins just to tide him over til bedtime, if he sleeps for a bit longer again then just try an early bedtime again. He's not getting a whole lot of sleep at the moment but I would just try & remain as consistent as you can for at least a few days so we can see if there is any pattern emerging.

xx

Thanks omama. Well today he slept for 1.5 hrs at lunchtime! I fear it's a one off though.

He slept 930-10, then 1245 til 215,followed by a 15 min sleepy bf which I kind of count as sleep. So no afternoon nap and he's currently bfing to sleep.

This is all so frustrating given that he was sleeping through only a few weeks ago before he fell ill :(

wow that's a great nap!!! so what bedtime did he manage to get to? 6.30-45?

(((hugs))) Hun try & have some faith. it sounds like he was a bit better rested & perhaps the slightly longer time awake before his nap helped too.

repeat again tomorrow & see what happens. Hopefully you will get another decent nap. I think if you can get a few more 1.5hr PM naps under your belt then it may be time to either try a 1pm nap & see if he'll sleep for 2hrs, OR trim the AM nap a wee bit more, just by 5mins at a time, until that PM nap is a good 2hrs. If we do look at trimming the AM nap more then its likely the PM nap may need to come a wee bit earlier, back to a 12.30start again. That's something to decide on later though.

FX'd for a good night's sleep tonight.
xx

Hi again

Things aren't going so well although I know I can't expect miracles over night!

He woke in the night at 445, fed back to sleep then woke at 630.

Morning nap 930-10, then down for his lunchtime nap at 1245. He didn't actually fall asleep until 1pm, and he's just woken! 40 minutes. He sounds very tired on the monitor so I'm going to leave him a while and see if he resettles but I think that's very wishful thinking. So I guess I'll have to give him a later afternoon nap today. Good thing its sunny outside, it will have to be in the buggy!

Feeling pretty disheartened at the moment, we were at such a good place a couple of weeks ago and now I just feel like I'm obsessed with sleep!

Yep - well and truly awake and in a foul mood. Lots of crying - guess he's exhausted.

Boo.

oh hun try not to feel too disheartened. You're only on day 3 of trying something new, it can often take a while for routine tweaks to kick in yk? And on the positive side, he woke at 6.30am - which is later than yesterday right?

so how did he wake form this lunchtime nap today - crying? or just mumbling? if he doesn't resettle & you do resort to a late afternoon nap, just remember to keep it v short so it doesn't interfere with his night.

And then try again tomorrow. If you get a similar result I think you will need to consider either delaying the lunchtime nap to 1pm or cutting the morning nap a touch shorter.

hth.x

Well. We had a great night on Friday ( slept through) followed by a good 1.5 hr lunch time nap yesterday. Then last night was finish, he woke at 830 crying but went straight back to sleep with a cuddle, woke again at 10 screaming and screaming for an hour and eventually settled with a feed. Then up again at 530, back down at 6 after a feed and up again at 730.

So total sleep not too bad but feel like I need to reclaim my evenings! The last 4 nights he's woken just a couple of hours after bedtime crying and needing a cuddle to go back down. I wonder if that's over tiredness or because he feeds to sleep. He never used to but since dropping the pm nap he can't stay awake!

ok so lets look at the positive first - another 1.5hr nap which is great.

So it does sound a bit like like overtiredness hun. But don't forget you've made a bit change to his routine & it will take time for him to adjust. That said, I think the OT is probably stemming from him not having a long enough lunchtime nap. If you want him to last until bedtime without being overtired, he really does NEED a 2hr nap.

Most babes drop that late afternoon nap at around 6months old, so he is pretty late hanging onto it & TBH I wouldn't recommend keeping it long term b/c you may find it starts to cause bedtime resistance, night wakings or early wakings. However, in the short term, you need to address the OT.

So.... a couple of questions first:
Are you still doing nap at 12.45pm???
Do you instinctively feel he could last til 1pm or is he struggling with nap at 12.45?
What time is he going to bed???

If he is desperate for a late afternoon nap you could perhaps allow a 10-15min max snooze if he will take it & that may tide him over to BT. Absolutely no longer or I think it'll cause you problems.

Or, if he is managing ok & not tired at usual afternoon naptime (4-5pm ish), you could perhaps do a slightly earlier bedtime, as it does sound like he's shattered by usual bedtime.

If you feel he could last til 1pm for his nap, I would perhaps be inclined to try it as my next step in the plan. Pushing the nap a wee bit later may help him to sleep for longer & take that full 2hr nap. In which case he should last til BT no problem. If the nap shortens to 30mins again then you know he is overtired & he needs the earlier nap.

If you don't think he would manage a 1pm nap then the next suggestion would be to trim the AM nap shorter.

WRT the feeding to sleep - since its only been a few days of this, I really wouldn't worry. I think once the routine is sorted, that should stop.

Id try and get him into the habit of napping at the same time every day instead of going by tired signs.

Also with early and night wakings you'll need to think about giving an earlier lunch so he can have an early lunch time nap. I had to do this with DS - lunch at half 11 and nap at 12.30. He also had a morning nap at 8.30 (or earlier if he needed it, but keep him awake for two hours after waking in the morning). He didn't cope with a later lunch time nap until 18 months (which was and still is at 1pm after a 12pm lunch)

And yes he'll need an earlier bedtime. Give a quick bath at 5.45, into PJs and feeding by 6. Id keep up the naps and early bedtime for a week to see any difference. And make evenings/afternoons quite dull - plenty of fresh air and crawling/walking about but less playgroup style things.

Also is he teething? Dont underestimate the impact this has!

Thank you both. I dont think he is teething, we've had some hideous nights during teething episodes and he's not the same at the moment.

To answer your questions omama - he is so unpredictable each day is so different. Here is last few days sleep log, approximately:

Fri - wake 630
Nap 930-10
Nap 1245-130
Nap 430-445
Bed 640
Wake briefly screaming at 745
Slept through til up at 6am

Sat - up at 6
Nap 940-1010
Nap 1pm-230
Bed 630
Wake up screaming at 945, inconsolable, fed then asleep by 1030
Wake for feed 515, back to sleep

Sun- up at 730
Nap 950-1016
Nap130-230
Bed 630
Wake screaming briefly at 7pm
Wake to feed at 1130
Up at 645.

So, all in all not hideous but very random and a far cry from where we were at a month ago (7-7 at night).

I will try to stick to strict nap times of 930 and 1pm all week and maybe try the 6pm feed/bedtime? Fingers crossed!

Also, just retread your messages. Wrt late pm nap, I know he needs that ten min cat nap but it's such a hassle as it takes an hour in the push chair for him to actually drop off, then it's quick back home to prepare dinner while he naps! I think a 6 pm bedtime sounds better but am so worried he'll wake for the day before 6 am! Also is it ok to put him down so soon after a big dinner?

Noooo I was all set to try a 6 pm bedtime but he's just woken from his nap after just 30 mins again :( I guess he'll need a pm nap and then might not be ready for bed at 6pm? Will have to play it by ear. An doubly hacked off as I was hoping to get an hours kip myself this lunchtime and had just drifted off!

Honestly - his naps look too late. He's overtired by the sounds of it so putting him down at 1 means he's too tired and only has a short sleep. Try for half 12 instead.

I wouldn't bother with an afternoon nap, see if you can keep him going and stick him in bed at 6.

Well, I took your advice and kept him up, that wasn't hard, and then he conked out feeding at 6.05! And then sleep-fed for another ten mins before sinking into a lovely snuggly deep sleep in my arms.

So we'll see how tonight goes! I really want my evenings back and it's so sad to see him to be so distressed during these evening wake ups. :(

Will report back tomorrow!