when to start sleep training?

[Cha]

Is 12 weeks too young? Ds wakes three times a night despite good daytime sleep routine and only falls asleep on the breast or in the pram. When should I start to get tough? Didn't do controlled crying till 6 months plus with first child, she didn't sleep through until 11 months. Am the walking dead at the moment and can't bear the thought of many more months of this (with 2 to look after this time). Someone told me that Michael(?) Ferber is good - is it worth buying his book?

DD slept better last night after being in grobag ...maybe she had been cold ... Tks for the tip !

BR ...Motherinlaw introduced the Gripe water and said my prtner lived on it ... I ahve started using it and it does seem to work . Trouble is getting ehr to take it as she knows how to spit out already ! I am trying a syringe as well as teaspoon.

CHA ... how are your efforts with the new method ?

Know what you mean about the spitting out. I always tilt DS' head back and give medicine gradually rather than all at once.

Glad you had a better night....

BR

Cord - new method gone to pot, I'm afraid. Due to severe sleep depravation and urgent parental need to get shrieking brat to sleep WHATEVER MEANS POSSIBLE! So we have been feeding him to sleep, picking him up, rocking him - the works - because we have had night after night from hell. And dd waking up too because of it and wetting the bed when everyone has finally got back to sleep and coming into our bed with scratchy little toenails because she's woken up early etc etc. Even the dog managed to start puking loudly outside the bedroom door the other night, just to add a small variation to the nightly disturbances. Joy of joys. Feeling half way human today because last night he only woke up once - at 3. Why? Only he alone knows.
Perhaps will reinstate patting / music association thingy now that I am feeling a little less like death on wheels. But right now, too much enjoying lack of itchy eyes to mind about anything

sorry to hear that Cha ... worth persevering though right ? As for the 3am wakening , hope it stays that way for you. My DD also did that for a while, and I have not for the life of me figured out why she did then for 2 weeks but now it is several times ... I wish she cld remember and tell me when she is older .

Nights still erratic ... waking up now mit seems 12 and 4am ... From anothre thread , I have taken the advice to relax abt it more, and to just feed without being overly concerned abt whether she should or should not , thus, I had a more relaxed night than the night before ...

Hi Cords - havent spoken in a while. You dont sound neurotic just tired & frazzled like me!!! I am having the same problem c my new post "first time in cot and grow bag". She actually went from 11:30pm - 5:00am , which is monumentally AMAZING, I gave her 2 1/2 oz and she just wouldnt go back to sleep(I just needed an extra hr of shut eye). Put on her music thingy which also has sensor that goes back on after 7secs of crying, but to no avail cried anyway. So got her out of cot at 6:45 and gave her morning feed. She has now learnt (in last 48hrs!!) to push the bottle out of her mouth and have a paddy if she doesnt want it, amazing how they learn new tricks so fast.I have a right one here!!!!!! So now cant persist with feeding as she just fusses and winges if I do.

Hi Guys,
Well my DS is on a growth spurt all right and has just downed 7 1/2 oz!!! Fed him at 11.45pm last night and he went through to 6.25am. First time his done this since he was 10 weeks old. Problem was I spent most of the night listening to him whingeing, talking and yelling in his sleep, so was so knackered I fed him with the light off and put him back to bed!!! He went back to sleep and I woke him up at 7.30!!

We're going to Devon this weekend so not sure how he'll cope witht he travel cot....

BR

Hey BR ... very excited for you ! 7.5 oz !!!! Is that formula ? I wish that my DD would "down" 4oz ! how much does your DS weigh ? Sounds like he likes being fed to his eyeballs ! How big was his nappy in teh morning ???!!! Have a great time in Devon ...

Melsy ... hiya ... thanks for the reassurance that I am NOT neurotiv.. totally "frazzled " like you say definitely though ~! I reckon girls are real fusspots ... My DD does the same with bottle and also like a typical girl , constipates, plus likes to pick at her food and not gulf a big meal down to alst her throught the night !

My mum says we have to put a stop to the "madam" behaviour and let her know who is boss!!!!Otherwise she will turn into nightmare snotty child!!!!

Its hard to discipline a 3.5 month old baby though !
last night I had a friend who kindly offered to do the night duty for me so I cld get some rest. I slept for two hrs before waking to feed her at 12am then slept after that for 6.5 hrs on the trot. ...MY GOD ... this is how I used to feel !!!!! It is truly amazing not to wake up with a headache and feeling sickly tired . I guess that there is consolation that in a few months, things will def be better . I think that I will do CC when she is 5 or 6 months if she continues to wake so much during the night .

Cords, my ds sleeps on his tummy and has a dummy. Babies nose breathe anyway - that's why they got so incredibly upset when they have a cold. They don't use their mouth! I'm not saying you should use a dummy, just that it won't harm your child. dummies actually cut cot death rates pretty dramatically.

Melsy, do ignore your mum, please. She's really, honestly talking the most unutterable rubbish. You cannot have a 'madam' - she's only a tiny, tiny baby. She is incapable of understanding notions of 'who's boss' at her age - her tiny little brain just isn't developed enough. Believe me, I know what you are going through. I had the worst sleeper of anyone I know and it was horrible. BUT what made it worse, much worse, was when I got angry or blamed my baby or gave him negative labels - if I thought the best of him, thought of it in terms of his being unable to help himself, of his missing me at night and not knowing that we need any sleep (which of course he can't know) it did really help me. Otherwise I'd get very tense and upset and frustrated. Your tiny baby has no idea that you feel anything different to her - all she knows is that she wants you. My son is two now, and still 'shows' his granny things when she's on the phone. If I ask him to show me the picture he's looking at he doesn't turn it round to show me, he just looks more intently at it. You see, he cannot fully imagine what it's like to be me, so he believes that if he can see the image, then I can to. Now he's two and talks and walks and watches Peter Pan. Your baby is 3 months only so has infinitely less understanding.

Melsy, I couldn't agree more with aloha - my mum adores ds but she does seem to 'blame' him for the fact that he's not a great sleeper and it makes things even more difficult for me. She says things like 'oh, you're a bad boy for not giving mummy any rest' and tells people that he's a 'nightmare' and 'difficult' - grrrrrr! If anyone's going to say those things it should definitely be me, and I wouldn't say them anyway!!

I do find it makes things easier if you think in terms of your bub needing you and of having no idea that mummies need sleep too - as aloha says, it just makes you feel sooo much worse if you (or anyone else) end up putting negative labels on your baby! It's so hard when you're exhausted and up for the fourth time that night, but keep in mind that we will all get there in the end. I'm right there with you, btw, my 6 month-old ds is up at least x2 a night and sometimes I wonder if I'm ever ever going to get more than 3 hours sleep again, but I know one day it will come right...

Hi, hope that the baby is sleeping better now, I thought that you may find one of my findings useful, I know that it is a bit controversial but it has worked like a charm... Gina Ford's 'the book of contented little baby '. I first read it when I was pregnant and thought it was a lot of work and couldn't agree with many things she suggested, but after having a terrible month when DS not only was eating every hour but was not having enough, we put it into practise and... he started sleeping wonderfully, he was eating more than before and finally started to gain weight steadily... The secret is to feed them enough during the day so they don't need to wake up so often during the night. Hope it helps, it definitively has help us and some other friends that are following it

It's not often I agree with Aloha... but the tiny madam thing really got to me, too. I never would have tried to show my babies "who was boss" at such a young age, and now people comment how good my kids (age 2 & 4yo) are about waiting their turn, and saying 'please' and 'thankyou'. These manner/sharing/consideration things you can work on as they get older, not at 3.5 months old!

Cords,
Had a lovely time in Devon thanks and DS slept through again and then did two nights of 5am.

Problem is, the later he goes through, the less sleep I get. I know it sounds crazy, but I'm waiting for him to wake up, so don't realy relax until then. I have the monitor up full until he has his night feed, then I turn it down a bit. I suppose I feel I can relax 'cos he's has some milk. Silly really, it's not as if he's starving!!!

Off to feed him now, so can't wait to see what happens tonight.

Sort of agree with the little madam/bad boy thread. Babies do recognise pattern and repetition but can't possibly understand at such a young age why it's not nice to wake up at night. They know they need attention, and how to get it, they can't possibly reason that it's not a good time for mummy and daddy!! DS knows that a bib means it's food time, but doesn't really understand what it's all about...

Bit like me when I've had a few too many bottles!!

BR

Hi All ... I am now also more relaxxed abt night tiem waking too Melsy and as the others have said am trying not to put negative labels on DD ...she does not know how tired I am .

BR ... I am with you there on the sleep thing (for us!) I too cannot sleep propertly, esp after her feeding or waking at 4am and after ... I cannot drop of to sleep properly again , esp since i know alarm will go off in 2 hrs for DP, then when he showers, DD is woken up by noise and so day starts again. It is such a day to day game of cat and mouse it seems ! Thing is that if I go to bed really early in evening then i miss out on seeing DP ...plus if I get the 5 hrs in row, then my body seems to think thats all i need and sleep eludes me at 3 am !
Oh well ... at least DD is now babbling in baby talk and loving cartoon network whilst I type !!!

we are on hols for New Year week, cannot wait to get some sun , and at least other friends and DP to be around to allow me to get some rest.

Cha, how are things with you ?

Well........ yesterday I tried the 'Cha method' again for his pm nap. That was a laugh. NOT. He screamed and screamed, I patted and patted, lullaby tinkled away, left the room, read story to dd, went back for more etc etc. For about an hour. Sick to death of lullaby sound. Fear ds associates this noise with trauma of getting to sleep without tit in mouth. Turned him onto his belly in desperation and within five he was asleep. Took this to be sheer exhaustion. However, this lunchtime he was starting to grizzle and sort of drop off as I held him so I put him down in his cot, on his tummy. He whinged for about a minute while I patted and soothed and went to sleep! Is still asleep as I type some 45 minutes later.

Just a bit anxious about doing this sleeping on stomach thing at night as he is not yet 6 months and can't turn over by himself. Though my mum said we all slept quite happily on our tummies... What say the rest of you?

Cha

Sounds like my DS - when he was tiny, he used to fall asleep downstairs, sleeping on his tummy on a pillow on my lap with me patting his back.

Yet, he would not settle on his side/back at all but I wasn't happy to let him sleep on his front.
When he was about 4 months old, he was sooo unsettled in his cot one night, DH got up and turned him on his front. Settled immediately - although I was up for the rest of the night watching him

After a while, I felt happy to leave him on his front. Now he is a strapping young lad who will be 6 tomorrow and he still sleeps on his front!

Cha ... that is how I got DD to sleep as well . She is 3.5 mths old and has been sleeping on tummy for a month now ... She is not the best sleeper, in that she does wake, however, on tummy is the only way that I can put her down not absoloutely asleep and then get her off to sleep. She will also turn her head from side to side but still stay asleep. I think this is because it is soothing on the tummy as she is quite windy , and also she likes the warmth on her chest, feels safer as if I was holding her on my chest. As long as yr DS is strong enough to turn head I think it is OK ...Also, make sure he is burped cos apparently the other worry is if they are sick .

Chatted to another mummy re the sleeping on tummy thing and she said that she let her ds do it from very early on. Said that if the child's neck is strong, it is not such a problem. My ds is very strong, would like to gallop round the room if he could coordinate it, so I let him sleep the night on his tummy. He woke up at 11 and at 3 which is quite good for him... Am not going to get excited about it though. Would find it hard to get excited about anything at the moment.

So you're gonna hate me for this but..... Tuesday night my parents baby sat DS while we went out. Got back at 11.30pm and it must be said that I may have imbibed a touch.... so DH said he'd do the night feed. Decided not to feed DS before we went to bed, assuming that he'd probably wake at about 2am, as he'd fed at 6.30pm and gone to bed at 7.15pm.

At 5am I asked DH to check DS was OK, 'cos he hadn't woken up. He was fine and didn't wake 'til 7.15am!!! Scarey or what! Have decided not to wake him to feed again tonight and see what happens.

Yours, not quite believing what happened

BR

BR ... pls let me know how last night went !!!! By the way, how much does DS weigh ?

CHA ... DD is waking at those times as well for feeds ... maybe also at 4:30 for a whinge too ... Last night was 11 and 3am as well !

Hi Cords,
Well he started making noises at 3 but didn't start crying till 4am, so have decided will feed him before we go to bed tonight... will let you know what happens.... he weighs 13lb 11oz and is nearly 15 weeks old.

BR

Going through till morning regularly now.... but now I'm having problems with his midday nap!!

Just get one thing sorted and another pops up

BR

I think that sleeping through the night beats sleeping well during the day ! you must be feeling more rested ?

Well I suppose so, but he is miserable if he doesn't get two hours sleep at lunch time, and if I'm at home I can get a lot done in that two hours.

He still wakes in the night abouy 4/5am but goes back to sleep again, so I still worry if I should get up and feed him.... hopefully I'll get used to it. Nightmares with midday sleep though... am posting another thread to see if anyone can help. How go the nights for you?

BR