For people with early wakers and no judgey pants, is there SOMETHING we can give them?

[MissHonkover]

It's been about 10 months of waking any time from 4.30ish to 5.15ish. We can't stand it any longer. Utterly sick of it.

Is there anything that can be prescribed or bought?

Please, I don't want to hear from anyone who says "just go to bed earlier".

(((hugs))) it is draining. We also had EWing for a very long time so I know how it feels.

I think WRT the 12hrs at night thing, this just doesn't happen for most toddlers whilst they are still napping in the day, but I agree if she is waking crying all the time then she is definitely not getting her quota.

How long did she nap for yesterday & what time was her BT?

And is she having a wee morning nap every day & what time/how long for? I am wondering if continuing to do this might actually be exacerbating the problem.

We actually had a similar thing happen recently with my DS. I'd been working on pushing his nap later & he got very very overtired & even though his bedtime was 1hr later at 7.30pm, he was still waking at 5.30. The turning point came when after another 10hr night he cried the entire morning, so I just put him down at 11am & let him sleep. After 2.5hrs I decided I should get him up, & went for an earlier bedtime of 7pm. The next morning he still got up at 5.30am but he was a bit better rested. From that day on I kept him up 5.5hrs before his nap, let him nap for 2hrs max & then put him to bed 5hrs later, even if that meant a 6pm bedtime. And each night got longer & longer & within a few days he was waking at 7am, napping 12.30-2.30 & BT was 7.30 & its stayed more or less like that for the last few weeks.

I'm just wondering if perhaps you try & avoid the early/short morning nap, but put her down for an earlier & longer lunchtime nap just for a day or 2 it might help her overcome the OT & then you will be able to get things back on track.

HTH.x

Yesterday she napped for an hour and 25 mins, bedtime was 7.

No, she doesn't have the morning nap every day, most days we push on through to lunchtime, the morning nap happens on days when she's been up particularly early AND we need to go somewhere in the pram/car and can't keep her awake.

I've seen your '5 hour rule' on another thread, and it makes total sense. The tricky thing is waiting for some 'event' like your 11 am nap day so you can reset the cycle.

smackapacca, that's very kind of you, will PM.

It's so hard keeping them awake isn't it. I do try to avoid the morning fall asleep too, as I read somewhere that if they sleep before 11am it exacerbates the issue, as it is used as an extension of nighttime sleep.

We also find sometimes that even if DS2 sleeps for like 10 minutes if we're out in the car or whatever and then I wake him up, he then refuses any afternoon nap.

I've also found that when DS2 is so tired by the evening, he wakes up earlier. On the days where he has had a later lunchtime nap and stays asleep for a decent length of time (say 1 - 3), his wake up time is a bit closer to 6 the following morning. So I do try to make his nap as late as possible, although it's hard as he is often falling asleep in his lunch!

DH is very practical about everything, he keeps saying 'we need to do something about him waking up' and we both get so frustrated that there seems no answers to it all.

DH did the early shift this morning and let me sleep. But on the days where I'm up at 5, I am often in tears at various points in the day with tiredness and irritability. I tell you, I will get my revenge when he hits teenagerdom!!

Me too sheep, I was on the brink of crying while I was rocking her in her room.

DP has announced today that he's sick of talking about it and sick of trying to fix it and that we should just go with it. (seeker will be pleased to hear that!) I can't give it up though, I keep thinking every day we bring her downstairs at 5.30 we're just reinforcing that it's time to get up.

AAAAARRRRGHHH.

If you are serious about a chemical solution, you could at least have the decency to drug yourself rather than your baby. Pro-plus to get you going in the morning? Red Bull on your cornflakes? A wrap of amphetamines with your triple espresso? No?

We're the opposite, I've resigned myself to it for a while (albeit struggling with it), whereas DH always says 'how can we solve this?', as though there is some magical solution. DS2 has been asleep for nearly 2 hours now (a rarity!), so I'm really hoping he'll 'sleep in' (in the loosest sense I mean sleep in!) tomorrow morning for my shift.

This is a stage, it will pass ... this is a stage, it will pass ... this is a stage, it will pass ... this is a stage, it will pass ... and so on

Caffeine and chocolate gets me through the day

I'm fuelled almost entirely by Diet Coke and Fruit Gums Silent.

Actually, a genuine question, why is it that using medication to aid sleep in babies is now much more frowned upon than it was when we were babies? Several people of my mum's age have told me how they used to buy such and such from the local chemist. They're not embarrassed by it at all, and are bemused by my hesitancy to investigate that option.

Is it because there's now more knowledge of side effects, or has there been a shift in what's acceptable? Or something else?

Ds is autistic and doesn't sleep.

He was 8 when I finally gave in to the idea of medication for him.

I am sorry but a BABY getting 9 hours sleep does NOT need to be medicated for longer sleep.

But that's not the answer you want so will probably just ignore or give a snotty reply

Because medicating a healthy baby for the convenience of the parent is just wrong.

No snotty replies here, I've been really grateful for all the suggestions, and would hope that's come across.

There's no agenda regarding an answer I 'want' (apart, of course, from the guaranteed solution that every parent on the sleep thread is after!).

Also - every man/woman/child/baby is different. You see this everywhere. Some people (and babies) genuinely need less sleep than others (Think Margaret Thatcher).

The OP clearly needs more sleep. Her baby doesn't need so much.

I'm not surprised she's desperate. Some people cope better than others. I've been drugging myself for the best part of 2 years with ADs. Last week I was popping pills for back pain. I for one function much better with medication (despite trying all other avenues).

If the OP can get a chemical solution that is safe and legal, then isn't it worth a try? The consequences of her not getting enough sleep could be catastrophic (My DH is a driver - without enough sleep he is a risk to himself and others).

I would never give DS2 drugs to make him sleep.

To provide context however, melatonin is a natural hormone made by the body to help regulate the body clock. It depletes as we get older (why over 60's tend to wake up early in the morning) and also shift workers have less melatonin naturally (it is affected by daylight). I wouldn't give it to my baby in a million years, but I can see there would be an opportunity for a company to investigate these natural body producing hormones. Maybe there might be some foods that help the production of such hormones when consumed? We just don't know.

If the op just needed more sleep then she wouldn't reject the idea of going to bed a bit earlier for a while. She wants to have more sleep at a specific time. My heart goes out to the exhausted parents of non- sleeping babies. I have. Little less sympathy for the parents of babies who sleep- just not at precisely the right time.

Seeker - of course when babies don't sleep at all or for only small periods of time, that is more exhausting.

But there is something draining about early starts that go on for years. Not being able to sleep beyond 5am in the morning every day is a hard slog.

Agree with pp about long term early waking being draining. We've had it for the last 11months of my DS's life (the last few weeks excepted) & it is physically and mentally exhausting. I went to bed earlier AND took daytime naps while LO was sleeping just to try get through the day, BUT this is of course at the expense of spending alone time with DP. Whilst a few nights is fine, doing this on a long term basis is not a great solution for anyone.

I also disagree with smackapacca's comments that OP's baby doesn't need more sleep. If she didn't then she would be waking happy. I was told this so many times by my family/HV/GP when my DS was waking early & crying for most of the day & I knew they were wrong b/c I see how much happier he is when he has had a good night's sleep. And I'm glad I persevered to get his routine right b/c I believe this has been key to helping him get more sleep overall & he is so much happier for it.

Good luck Miss Honkover I hope you manage to get her caught up on the OT & experience her waking later soon.x

I don't think I worded my reply properly omama as I agree with you!

Melatonin is pretty natural. dd has been on benzidiazepams which make her go to sleep but dont keep her asleep. Last night she finally went to sleep at 11pm then woke every half an hour.
She has been like this for years. A non sleeping child destroys your whole life. No time with your partner, you're exhausted, you make mistakes (I crashed the car once, you are snapy and irritable with other kids and your own health deteriorates. Thats why sleep deprivation is used as torture.
When it goes on months or years something needs to be done.

OP, there's a sleep place called Millponds. Cant recall the full link. They help with sleep issues but cost money so I havent had personal experience but they are reputed to be very god. Some areas have a sleep clinic (not mine) for children.
Good luck and I hope you get it sorted. I live my life as a bad tempered zombie now!

OP 20mth old DD is a very bad sleeper in that she wakes several times a night and often enough at 5am for the day. But even though I'm wrecked as is DH, drugging her would never have seriously occurred to me. We adapted a bit by going to bed earlier and there are times when we've had a few hours of playtime, I've done a full weekly shop in the supermarket etc etc and it's still too early to go to the childminder! Do you have some friends/family you can call on to help out for a while because it's seems like you're so sleep deprived, you're not thinking clearly? It can't be good for a baby to have sleeping tablets - you must see that. What happens when they're a dozy toddler because they're being sedated during the night? Do you give them something else so they can be active during the day? I'm not trying to judge, but just trying to point out some consequences. Almost all drugs have knock on effects.

You have my utmost sympathy, I know it's hellish trying to survive in such a sleep deprived state. If you could get some help one day a fortnight even?

Considering Millponds - has anyone had any personal experience?

Thanks

Really interesting reading everyone's ideas/solutions. My DS is 23 months and until he turned 2 he was sleeping quite happily in his cot until 7- 7.30 but then he learned how to climb out of it (and then he learned how to get out of the stairgate we put at his door . since then he has been waking anytime between 4.30 and 5.30 wanting to go downstairs. Nothing in his daily routine has changed and we are struggling each morning to get him back to sleep. The health visitor tells us we should keep on putting him back but he is v stubborn and will keep on getting up and walking into our room. We have tried this for several hours for a few days in a row and got nowhere... Except too tired to function. We have also tried the sleeping bunny clock which is comes on with a light and noise but he has no interest in it...he doesn't respond to/understand rewards either.. I know they all go through phases and really hope this one passes- soon.

I mean he's 25 months old!

Is there something that you could do to make waking up at that time easier for YOU instead of changing her? Perhaps get one of those natural light alarm clocks or something?

I don't think 5am waking is particularly unusual or unnatural for young DC and don't think it counts as a sleep problem. Drugs?

I'm not usually this harsh but actually I think it's your problem not hers. I say this as someone who's 17mo has never once go up later than 6am and did months on end of 4.30s. TBH though in my youth as an athlete I got up at 4.30am to train and these days DH (a teacher, not a milkman or anything) gets up at 5.30am and is out of the door for 6am so I see it as a perfectly valid time of day to be up and about. I just think you should change your attitude to it. Yes it's hard, but so is loads of stuff about parenting- and life in general- not a reason to drug your child IMO.

I had this for years with my eldest, I am a complete night owl so waking up at 5am was like mental torture and was sending me insane, so I feel your pain. What cured it for me was co-sleeping. He co-slept accidentally in my bed aged 2 and a half and slept til 8am - it was like a miracle! So after that I would bring him into my bed at my bedtime, and he would sleep til late. I know in an earlier post you said that she wouldn't co-sleep, but it may be worth trying again - how about bringing her into your bed when you go, at midnightish or whenever, and she may be so zonked that she just sleeps?