controlled crying - it's not working!!

[chipmunksmum]

Hi there
I feel absolutely awful and can't stop crying. I decided to do the cc method last Weds after a heart breaking decision. Please, no answers that make me feel worse about this. I need support. I don't even believe in what I'm doing; I hate it, and I worry so much what it's doing to my baby, my heart aches. BUT, at over 9 months my baby still sleeps terribly and wakes between 1 and 3 times a night and then will NOT settle, and I'm at my wits end. I think I'm suffering from post natal depression and I need my sleep back. I've tried lots of very gentle ways of getting him to sleep but he doesn't seem to learning to sleep on his own. I've tried having him in bed with me too but it's not for us (he wriggles and fusses and keeps me up and my husband was having to sleep in spare room and it was driving a rift between us) so please no answers telling me to co-sleep.
Now, this doesn't seem to be working either! Why does nothing work with my baby? Everything I've read says the 1st night is awful but then they're sleeping through by the 3rd or 4th night and they've never had to leave their baby to cry for longer than, say, 45 mins. Well, my baby's a hell of a lot more stubborn. I could have coped with his screams for 1 night but now we're on the 5th night! The 1st night he properly cried for 1.5hours and then 45 mins. The 2nd and 3rd nights were better and he cried less painfully and for less time - so I was feeling quite positive and optimistic - but last night he screamed uncontrollably again for 1hour (and 2 lots of 45 mins) and so far again tonight for 40 mins SO FAR!!! I think I've been doing all the right things - going in incrementally to sssh him, speak gently to him without picking him up or stroking him - just putting a hand on his tummy - then leaving the room within a minute. I'm 99% sure there's nothing wrong with him like teething/upset tummy/growth spurt (he had the mother of all growth spurts 2 weeks ago). I'm desperate and I hate myself. This was supposed to be a drastic, unpleasant but quick solution to an impossible situation, but it's making everything worse - I feel worse than ever. I can't keep listening to my child's screams. Do I give up now, waste all this work and go back to how things were? Anyone been through similar experiences that have eventually worked (or not worked) out? Thanks (and please, please, not hurtful comments)

Nothing useful to add as I have the same problem but lots and lots of sympathy! I think from what I have read it is normal for them to improve and then go bad again, but if you really can't stand the crying then maybe now is not the right time to do this? I have read numerous books that say proper sleep training can require both parents to take 2 weeks off work, freeze all your meals in advance, forget about housework etc as you will be so much more sleep deprived than ever before - but this should provide the desired result in the end. I have not managed this as its slightly impractical! But then again I am still struggling with a very poor sleeper at 3 years of age.

Sorry that's not much help but I do feel your pain!

Oh and please don't cry! You are doing a great job and you are a loving mummy by the sounds of it -I know mums with 'good sleepers' are quick to judge the likes of us but I do believe that some babies are just not as good at sleeping through/settling themselves as others and it's not always completely down to us.
Un-mumsnetty hugs

9 months is a bad time for sleep (search for AngelDog's posts on sleep regressions). It isn't a good time for changes because they find it hard to sleep anyway.

Forgot CC for now, do whatever it takes to survive and things will get easier in a month. Remember, babies get easier even if you do nothing, so sometimes riding it out is all you can do.

Thanks for words of support. My husband is out of work at the moment so that's why we decided to do it now. He takes LO all morning while I catch up on sleep. So I guess this is the best time we could possibly do it. I guess I'll keep going for now - but wanna know how long I keep it up for before I'm seriously damaging my child.
ps. baby stopped crying as soon as I sent last thread (but then of course I can't sleep) so it was 45 mins in the the end...

hmmm, thanks ohbugrit, I did think as much. But I thought he was over the worst of the 9 month thing (he's 9 1/2 months). It hurts to give up after 5 nights of trying but I guess if it's not gonna work then it's better to give up now than in a week's time...
ps. do they get easier?? Mine hasn't really got any easier for the past 4 months...

Back again (he's awake again after 45 mins). Just wanted to add that I've read and believe in the articles/books that say you shouldn't leave a baby to cry. I actually believe I could be damaging my baby. Doesn't that sound ridiculous! So why on earth would I do it then?! Well, on Weds, when I started, I was absolutely at my wits end...I was comforting my LO for over 2 hours for 3 nights running, giving boob, trying everything (and prior to that bringing him into bed with me). I was getting no sleep and was as a result a Bad Mum in the day, so tired and resentful of baby. When he woke in the morning I was ready to throttle him. Sitting next to him endlessly ssshing and stroking him was making me have scary thoughts (not that I would ever go through with it). At least this way I wake in the morning wanting to smother him in kisses and cuddles and want to show my love for him all day as I feel so guilty for leaving him. And sitting downstairs watching TV in the night with his cries in the background is - in a way - easier than sitting next to him getting angry with him (even though I know it's not his fault). So, if I gave up now I'd have to go back to that...until I break again. This is a no win situation. Either way I get no sleep, my baby gets no sleep and I'm exhausted/desperate/guilty. I can't go on like this...

a couple of weeks ago I was criticising controlled crying. but I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO!!

If you are having bad thoughts then getting out the room Is the best thing to do for both of you.
Go to your gp and ask for some help. If you do have postnatal depression there is help available.
I really sympathize, this isnt your fault and it will get better one day.

Have you tried a sleep clinic? I think there are some workshop type things at sure start centres.

IMO it is better to let a baby cry for a few minutes than sit there letting the resentment build up, so the previous poster is right in saying get out of the room for a few minutes till you can think clearly. It could be PND but it could also be sleep deprivations making you think/feel like this?

You need a balance that works for you, your dp and your child. My situation is far from perfect but it works for us - I don't know that my dd will ever sleep the way we would like her to so we have settled for a middle ground. As I'm typing this I realise I am not convincing myself but I guess what I'm trying to say is don't beat yourself up too much! Like you I decided the bad feeling from a night screaming wasn't worth it, but I do wish things were different.

I would try a sleep clinic, or talk to your doctor if they are usually helpful with that sort of thing.

How long are you leaving to cry? I did 2 mins as couldn't bear any longer. Even went down to a minute, 30 mins in. But it worked. We had been trying to co sleep to get some sleep but was a nightmare all round. My aim was just to get him to understandhe wasn't getting out of the cot. You are doing the right thing there. We were astounded at how well it sorted out his sleep. He was 13 months.

Sorry a bit garbled, just awake and on phone.

The 9 month thing for me with both of mine was from 7-10.5 months, peaking at 9. They can't sleep so nothing helps. It passes, but it's hell at the time.

Cc didn't work for mine if he was left for linger than 5 mins. Go up, say night, give a kiss but do NOT pick up. Worked in 2 days :)

Have you heard of the baby whisperer pick up - put down technique? You might find that's easier on you. It worked well for us though admittedly in less extreme circumstances. Google it and see if you might prefer it as CC seems to be bad for YOU, whatever it's effect on your baby.

My sympathies. Cc doesn't work for all IMO. I tried for2 weeks with ds2, he was still crying for an hour and vomiting so I gave up.

I suggest you see HV or GP to discuss sleep clinic referral. Mine did get better with time but a lot older.

Sympathies; you sound like you're doing a great job.

Classic cc didn't work for us either so we resorted to putting DD down (@8months) and letting her cry to sleep. It was heartbreaking and I was beside myself, so once she was down I'd go out for a swim (DH was more able to resist going in to comfort her than me). When I came home she was sound asleep and always happy as ever when she woke in the morning 12-13hrs later

Took about a week with the odd relapse but I was also at wits end and the short term pain was worth it for everyone, including DD. Once she was getting a solid night's sleep her development rocketed...

Once we started when ds was 7months old we didn't want to go back so Ii understand where you are coming from. Could you afford to pay a sleep advisor? We used Lullababies and just having someone to talk through and encourage me when to stop feeding and how to resettle helped massively. Alternatively, you HV needs to support you through this, call and say you need support. We had three very stressful weeks but it changed things massively, ds is still not a good sleeper still at nearly 3 but from 8 months old we have had nights of sleeping through and he has always managed to be resettled within a few minutes. I became confident at how to deal with situations, different cries, throw it all out the window when he was poorly and co-sleep and then get our routine back after. Hope you can find the support you need.

Much sympathies with the lack of sleep, Its awful.

All the above adv is good but also get yourself treated re possible depression- you'll cope better then with what ever you have to cope with.

DS2 and I cracked it in one night. He is 14 months and was up half the night crying and trying to get to sleep. First night I tried CC he cried for 40 minutes, second night was 4 minutes and third night about 4 seconds.
He was absolutely ready for it and did it the way the textbook says.
At 9 months or so I would say just go with the flow and do whats easiest for you and your baby. And repeat after me - this too will pass...

Oh God, poor you. We are going through similar now with DD2 - who co-sleeps. On a good night she is up every 2 hours. On a bad one it could be every 45 minutes plus at least one long waking thrown in for good measure.

I am at my wits end some days too. However, I would echo what others have said about the age. Nothing we could do with DD1 at that age would help her sleep. But at 11 months it took one night (literally) of CCing to get her sleeping well. I hated it at the time too, but was desperate.

I would second the suggestion about PU/PD. DD1 didn't stop crying when you picked her up, but others I know have had great success with it.

OP, no judgement from me, although I am against CC. Lots of sympathy though, sleep deprivation is awful. DS is almost 1 and doesn't sleep through, actually his sleep is worse than at 6-7 months.

I understand why you resorted to CC, but it really sounds from your OP that it's making you feel worse, guilt is destructive. I also think you should get help for your PND. 9 months is a very bad sleep regression, and a bad time for separation anxiety too. I think my DS is still recovering after the sleep regression. We had a couple of weeks when he just wouldn't go back to sleep. It's better now, but he is still unsettled after midnight. I actually posted in here about it a while ago, I was getting desperate too.

I am in no way in a position to give advice, I am a softie and am doing all the "wrong" things, but I just wanted to say two things:

• stop the CC if it's making you feel worse, because this is the last thing you need right now.
• it's only a phase, it will pass (my mantra now). I don't know how to say this without sounding patronising, but there is really no need to think of the temporary solution of cosleeping as driving a rift between your DH and you. Don't add more pressure on yourself. I don't think it can cause more of a rift than both of you being shattered and snappy. If co-sleeping gives you even slightly better sleep, then do it, for a week or two, until you feel a bit more able to cope with the problem.

We actually put an adult single mattress on the floor in DS's room and DH and I take turns to sleep with him after midnight, it's the only way we can function at work. I'm not recommending it, as I know it can't work for everyone, and I only look at it as something temporary, but it's ok for us for the time being.

I think looking for help for your PND is the first step, and hopefully this will make you feel more positive.

Hi Chipmunksmum.
I have done some sort of CC and do not not believe it "damages" your child. Some people will make you feel guilty about wanting some decent sleep but ultimately, by the sounds of it,both your DC and yourself will benefit from some sleep training.
I have done with my DS when he was about 6 months old and it turned out that DS son was getting more wound up if I kept going in and out of the room. So we had to let CIO. It took about 4 days and I can promise you you that if any "damage" was done it is real hard to tell what because he is a very happy boy. You are not talking about letting a DC cry for hours on end for days on end. He cried more when he was colicky.
It was bloody hard and the support of my husband was essential. But we also knew that he did not need an extra feed at night (he was a healthy weight) and we were pretty sure he was not teething either (we might have given him Calpol to make sure).
The bottom line is that both him and I benefited from CIO. It was an unpleasant thing to do but then I guess in parenting you sometimes have to accept that you will upset your DC.

You are clearly unhappy with the CC, so stop it and stop beating yourself up....there is no such thing as a perfect parent, we all can only do the best we can do.
At 9 months my baby was feeding every 2 hours day and night, it was still happening at 13m, plus the neighbours were having stupidly loud building work done which stopped me and baby sleeping in the day, so i know and sympathise with sleep deprivation, its impossible. She is now 19m and reliably sleeping through, (i know it doesnt help, i just wanted you to see there is light)
Your baby will some day sleep through, this will not last for ever, if it means that you and DH need seperate rooms for a little while in order to get a little sleep, so long as you both accept it is temporary, and you both help at night, you can support each and ride it out. let other things go for a while..cooking, cleaning, whatever
Be strong, this is normal for lots of babies, it will end....promise.

I got talked (bullied?) into CC with my eldest about this age by DH. After 10 days of screaming for 2 hrs a night (me and him), I stopped. It may have been we were doing it wrong, but I think it just doesn't work for all.
You've said co-sleeping is out. How would you feel about having the cot right next to a bed, so you can stay snuggled up under the duvet, and stick a hand through the bars?
DS1 used to want to be awake for 2 hrs, typically between 1 and 3, having been up several times before then. By dozing on the bed, and letting him play with my fingers, I just about survived.
Might that work for you?
But then I think his little brother (8 mths) is a dream sleeper, "only" waking 2-3 times a night, 'cause its usually easy to get him back to sleep, so maybe you shouldn't listen to me.
Hope you all get some more sleep soon

Thanks everyone for all your really lovely posts (this is the 1st time I've posted on mumsnet so I'm overwhelmed by this caring community!) I do now feel a little overwhelmed about what to do. I need to take it all in and then make the decision that's right for me. I guess what's tough is that I 'would' give up now if I wasn't really scared about going back to what it was like before which was just as impossible and depressing a situation. I am seeing my GP on Thursday.
My husband and I are both out of work (I'm self-employed in the Arts but there's no work around and my husband lost his job 3 weeks ago) so we can't afford a sleep speicialist. I have thought about putting a bed in nursery - I think that would be ideal - but it's too small. In the past I've fallen asleep in rocking chair but far from a good night's sleep!
I think I might try for 2 more nights - that will be a week. Or maybe until I see Doctor on Thursday. It helps to set limits on things. Then, if it's still not working, say, I'll try again in a month.
Thanks everyone again x

Hi,

I sympathise as my DD is the same at the moment, just over 9 months old and has never been a great sleeper, but worse the past 2 weeks or so. It sounds awful hearing them cry and I can't imagine how you've managed so many nights having to hear your baby cry for so long - it's soul-destroying.

I haven't done proper CC but I have been trying to get DD to get herself to sleep at nap-times and at bedtime for the past few days. I put her in the cot and leave the room. She whinges and moans with intermittent talking/singing, and after about 10-20 mins falls asleep. If she gets distressed or cries persistently, I go and give her a cuddle and put her back in the cot again. She's getting the message and there's definitely less whingeing and more singing to sleep now.

I found if I stayed with her or kept going in after intervals, that she wanted me to pick her up and she got more and more distressed; she's getting better at getting herself to sleep by herself. She does still wake up at night and is having early starts as well as being awake sometimes up to 2 hours in the middle of the night which does push me to the edge. But I don't leave her to cry in the middle of the night as I genuinely think she can't sleep and it's not her fault - I think it's the sleep regression/development, and I personally feel that leaving her to cry isn't going to 'teach' her anything as it's a phase and will pass.

I thought at least if my DD learnt to settle herself to sleep for naps/bedtime then it might reduce some of the night wakings, and I guess I'm rambling, but just wanted to say that you might be prolonging the distress by going in at intervals, as I don't think it works for every baby the same way. Perhaps you could try to increase the intervals.

Good luck, I hope it works out for you whatever you decide. You're not alone, and I think if I were you I'd give it another couple of nights but if it's still not working I would leave it a few weeks and see what happens. People tell me it does get better by itself, but it's how you cope in the meantime :)