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What worked for us. Hope this helps.

870 replies

nectarina · 29/01/2012 21:03

This post is going to be massive - no apologies however.

So I've posted at least 5 queries about DD's sleep and read about 1 billion threads, because DD only napped for 30mins in the day, would only BF to sleep (since a newborn I wanted to get out of the habit, but nothing else did it). She spent the first 5 months in her cot, only for us to end up co-sleeping so we could get a bit of rest. She would BF every 2 hours at least in the night, and by the end she'd wake every half hour before we went to bed. I knew I couldn't do CC/CIO, I'm not strong enough even if I thought that was the right thing to do, but I thought that I would be forced to if things carried on the way they were.

We read No Cry Sleep Solution, which is complicated and didn't work for us.

So a friend had tried a technique, that she recommended and I thought that it was too much of a leap for DD, but i kept the email, and one evening I sort of snapped and decided that IT WAS TIME. DD was 8 1/2months. I don't know from what age this technique is recommended, but I don't think I'd have wanted to do this earlier, as you still have to cope with the baby crying. I knew DD was ready because now she quite clearly has two cries - one properly sad and scared, the other a bit shouty and put on, so when doing this technique you know what's going on (but I'd like to add that I still comforted DD when she was shouty - she's still trying to say something, but I deÞ nitely wouldn't pick her up and panic!)

I'll paste her email to me, hoping she won't mind. We didn't do it in the ten days, as it was just a bit too much, but i wonder if the way we did it made things a bit complicated. So I recommend doing it as laid out.

But now DD takes 20mins to fall asleep by herself (with one of us in her room) in her cot, in her room. and I do not feed at all between 7pm and 7am. Dh goes in in the night and he gives her water in case she's thirsty but she's quite happy without. It takes him no more than about 3mins to resettle her (unless ill).

After starting this at the beginning of January she still wakes up once or twice a night but it doesn't affect me as I wear earplugs and DH goes in! ha ha ha! (I still hear her and wake up, but I don't wake up fully and find it difFicult to go back to sleep) Do I need to tell you how I feel like a different woman?

So here's the email -

^"Ok, this is a plan thing that we first tried with dc1 when we got to the point where we knew something had to change. There seems to come a point where not only do you get tired of 'helping' your baby get to sleep, but whatever you do seems to work less and less - as if they know something has to change too! It takes a bit of work for about ten days or so but mostly the first couple of days you really put your back into it and then it gets easier. I remember vaguely doing it with dc1 and have just rediscovered it with Dc2 she is a bit of a firecracker so I was expecting trouble but babies love to learn something new, especially around this age and she only woke once last night despite having a cold, which is a HUGE improvement. Dc1 found this very easy and never shed a tear. Dc2 screamed 'TRAITOR!!' at me many times during the first night (she does that a lot), so I'm not saying that there won't be some crying because you will be doing something different to before but you don't have to leave her side and can reassure her as much as you need to, physically and verbally.
The idea is that you are no longer going to help her go to sleep - in whatever way - if you rock her, feed her, jiggle her, whatever it is. You can be there and reassure her but it is no longer your job to MAKE her go to sleep. It is your job to support her whilst she does it herself.
First of all, you know that thing that everyone says about having a bedtime routine (which I imagine you already have) is utterly true. By the time they are a toddler, the sound of a running bath is enough to set the bedtime clock going. When you choose to do this thing, it is really important to stick to your bedtime routine without fail for the ten days and it needs to be between 20 and 45 minutes long. Also, this plan also applies to naps, so you need to be able to be at home for naptimes - just until Dd has the thing established - ten days usually does it. Lastly, you are aiming for Dd to be in bed by 7ish in the evening and not much later. If you're like me you're knackered by about half four, so starting bedtime at a quarter past six is no trouble. You've probably done all that so on to the plan. I'll do bedtimes first and then naps.

Day 1, 2 and 3 - Place a chair right next to the cot. Make it a comfortable chair, you may get to know it fairly well. Have a duvet, cushions, iphone, book to hand. Do your bedtime routine and put Dd in the cot awake. She may well not know what to do next and try all sorts of things. If she stands up you can gently pop her back down again but only a few times - if she insists on standing for a bit then let her - it may just be one of those things she incorporates into her own burgeoning routine, and I daresay she is capable of getting back down again by now. You can pat the bed to let her know you want her to lie down. Sooner or later she is likely to sit down for a bit and eventually plop on to her front. She has to find her own way through this so she may try eating her blanket or playing with a toy before she lies down - that's up to her. If she cries, you can pat her and speak to her. As long as you remember that your patting and comforting is not there to get her to sleep, just to help her calm down in this new and confusing situation so as soon as she starts to settle, lighten your touch with a view to taking your hand off her, and stop speaking. She may go back and forth a bit needing you to touch and speak to her a few more times, but each time lessen your touch when she has settled. Stay there until she has fallen fast asleep and creep out. This bit can take ten minutes for some babies, but most fall asleep after 45 minutes. Two hours is the longest on record! I expected Dc2 to be a two hour effort but no - 45 minutes almost exactly. As long as you know that it is going to take that long, you can get through it. When she wakes up in the night, you do exactly the same thing, each and every time. The first few times she wakes, she will probably yell for you, but as she gets the idea that she can drift back to sleep herself, she may just squeak and go back (sounds unlikely? I thought that too.) The idea is that as time goes on you can wait a tiny bit longer before you go in, to give her the opportunity to practise her new skill.

Days 4, 5 and 6 - move the chair a few feet away from the cot. Keep everything else the same except you are further away. Once you have had your bedtime cuddle and put her in the cot sit down. You can still go to her if she really needs you, and you can still speak to her but she may not need as much help by now. Again, wait until she is asleep before you leave. Repeat as often as necessary when she wakes although, again, leave it a few minutes before you go in.

Days 7, 8 and 9 - move the chair to the door or the other side of the room. Make sure she can still see you, but once you have settled her in her cot and gone to the chair try not to go to her unless she has got herself into a daft position and can't get out. By now she will start developing her own strategy to get to sleep, and you will be able to tell what stage she is at, because you've been watching it all the way through.

Day 10 - you have several choices. If you think things are going really well and baby can cope with you not being there you can leave the room and see how she gets on. You can hover by the door out of sight and watch what happens, and reassure her with your voice. If you feel apprehensive about it and think she needs longer you can try the Bustle - instead of sitting down, tinker about in her room, cleaning up or folding washing or whatever. Or you can continue in the chair. The idea of the plan is ultimately for you to be able to plonk and go, but I quite like spending that extra time with DC so I use a mixture of the bustle and the chair. For night wakings you now really have to give her the chance to go back on her own. Wait ten minutes ( I know - such a long time!) before you go in. I got up last night to Þ nd by the time I got to DC's door, she'd already curled up again! That's the main brunt of it. Just bear in mind that the first couple of nights are the worst - she might wake more frequently, but stick at it and you'll see an improvement. The other thing is that when they start sleeping longer in the night they get up properly a bit too early in the morning - but this usually improves over a few weeks as they get the hang of sleeping. I've kind of assumed that you are going to move her into her own room - there's no reason you can't start this as soon as you move her in. If DC get ill and it disrupts her sleep, go back to whichever stage in the plan you think works best. You can sleep in her room if you want to keep an eye on her, but don't bring her in with you.

Naps - Do the same for naps as you do at night times only you can't sit there for as long as it takes - give it an hour and if she hasn't gone to sleep, get her up and feed her or do something different and try again a bit later. If she resists napping like this twice in a day you can resort to taking her out in the buggy or something. just so she gets a bit of sleep in the day. You are aiming at two solid naps a day by the way. If you've started this thing at bedtime the night before, the nap thing is usually not a problem. I can't think of anything else right now! By the way this is based on a Canadian lady's idea. I chose to use it because it doesn't mean leaving a baby to cry. They learn to fall asleep without you intervening, although you might argue that your presence is a sort of intervention, but before long you will find yourself saying goodnight and shutting the door, because she'd not taking any notice of you anymore!" ^

So for us the First night it took 3 hours 10mins, which is why for nightwakings later on that night I just fed her instead of sitting with her. Within the first few nights she woke LOADS less and then DH would go to her and he would just ask her to put her head down and she would and go straight back to sleep. Needless to say that sort of thing just wouldn't happen before. So if I remember rightly it was only after 4 or 5 nights that I stopped feeding her. The other thing we've found a bit hard is waiting a few mins before going in to her when she wakes. We just give it one or two minutes more than we'd usually do instead of waiting 10.

DH would like to add that he thinks the important thing is to teach DC to put their head down and close their eyes - he says' put your head down, put your head down, now close your eyes' and repeats it a bit like a mantra gently until DD does, and then stops as soon as she does what he says. He says for our 9month old that after a week she knows what it means and does what he suggests! He says that this is useful in the night and that's all he needs to do to get her to go back to sleep.

For the first night I recommend a large glass of wine that you take in with you. For the second night, have the bottle waiting for you on the table in the lounge. Also on the first night we both did it together for a bit of moral support and took it in turns but I'm assuming that none of you is as much as a wimp as I am.

I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my friend's writing is very clear, and mine is all over the shop. I'm just a bit enthusiastic about how its gone. I hope this is of use to someone.

OP posts:
cmm · 20/02/2012 22:50

Update on night two! Little man screamed again but started to calm a little in intervals unlike last night. He fell asleep at about 20 mins then awake again screaming then off at 30 mins. Woke an hour later but settled back -all without boob! He's been asleep two hours now. So, definite improvement! Will keep you posted! Thdbknhjj

cmm · 20/02/2012 22:51

Oops dozed off whilst typing!!! So tired!!! Thank you for getting me to try again!!!!

OovoofWelcome · 21/02/2012 11:54

Hello everyone,

sorry I haven't read the entire thread - am too knackered and brain-fried really - so sorry if this question has already been answered.....

I am intending to try this technique when my DS is 6 months soon. He needs a dummy to settle (other than boob of course) at the moment and I was wondering whether to take the dummy away when we make the transition?

Is it too much in one go - or is it the perfect time to teach him he doesn't need it?

Any thoughts much appreciated and congratulations to everyone who has had any success so far (and therefore more sleep!) Smile

weedoll · 21/02/2012 19:28

Oovoo I asked the same question before starting and the general consensus was no it'd be too much. One night in and I fully agree! Don't know how we would have coped without the dummy. Last night!

cmm · 21/02/2012 21:23

Yippee! Night three and he's gone off without crying or falling asleep breastfeeding! Can't believe it!!!! Hasn't woken within the hour which he normally does. Only night three so guess better not get too excited but very impressed. He just gurgled and kicked for twenty mins and them fell asleep whilst I held his hand and patted his tummy!!! X

KittyBump · 21/02/2012 22:01

Ok major problems here :( after two fantastic nights everything has gone to pot. I don't know if it's because she is getting a cold or if it's just because she has decided she doesn't like sleeping on her own but she is back to waking up every few hours and is completely inconsolable when she does. I ended up bringing her in with me last night and looks likely tonight too. DH is with her now and she is screaming her head off, has anyone had this where they seem to be doing well and then it all goes wrong?

nectarina · 21/02/2012 23:11

kittybump try not to despair! It could be her realising that things are going to change. Just do what you have to do to comfort your DD - treat each waking separately, it might go well, or it might not. If it goes badly tonight, don't assume that it will do tomorrow night.
Keep us updated.

OP posts:
tootiredtothinkofanickname · 22/02/2012 08:44

Kitty, DS also had a cold so two nights ago we actually woke him up when we took his temperature and then I took him into bed with me as he was poorly ( he had fallen asleep in my arms downstairs as he was so unwell, bless him!) Last night he was much better so he fell asleep on his own, but I had to rub his back all the time, which I was happy to do as he still wasn't 100%. He also woke up at 3am and then was unsettled so ended up in bed with me again.

I second Nectarina, don't despair, it might take a while for your DD to "get the message", and I also think it's important for them to know they will always be comforted if needed. Maybe she is coming down with something or is teething? I'm sure things will improve once, meanwhile there is always Wine

cmm, well done, I hope your nights will continue to get better.

weedoll · 22/02/2012 09:22

kiitybump try not to worry, even once a baby learns to sleep in their own cot and own their own there will always be bumps in the road be it illness, teething or fast forward to toilet training or bad dreams! Just take every night as it comes Rome wasn't built in a day.
Meanwhile, I'm CONVINCED Ds thinks I don't love him anymore because he's been shipped out of our bed. Finding it really tough even I can see the improvement on the second night.

KittyBump · 23/02/2012 21:35

Ah, thanks for your comments. I know i am being very defeatist about this! She is definitely teething and has a cold, she has been slow getting her teeth, this is one of her top middle ones and her gum is all swollen poor little beggar :( all she wants to do is breastfeed. I think I'll have to resort to co sleeping and feeding to sleep again till she is sorted then start again. I just worry about sending mixed messages. Hope it's going better for everyone else :)

BenderBendingRodriguez · 26/02/2012 22:48

Thank you so much for this thread and all the encouraging news within it - I have read the whole thing over the course of today in the hope that this might be the thing to work with our adorable, stubborn DD. She is nearly 7mo and breastfed, won't take a dummy, very averse to taking a bottle. She's my second and out of sheer knackeredness she has always slept in our bed - I put her down at around 6.30/7pm in her cot and generally she sleeps a few hours before waking for milk, at which point she ends up coming in with us for the night. Throughout the night she will comfort-suckle herself back to sleep.

I love her so much and have loved the cuddles, but now she's bigger and wrigglier we're just not getting enough rest. My body hurts every day as I can't stretch out and relax, DH and I are like zombies, I'm not enjoying DD properly as the lack of personal space is getting me down...you all know the drill, I'm sure. Anyway, I'm hoping to try this out at some point soon.

I have one question though: how does this work around the bedtimes of older children? My DS is 3yo and atm DD gets put in bed before him, so that I can do his bedtime stories and cuddles uninterrupted afterwards (also because she's such a crap sleeper, she's always fit to drop by 6pm). It's one thing leaving him to watch tv by himself for half an hour while I feed her to sleep in the next room, but I can't very well leave him alone for as long as I need to sit by her cot. Can anyone advise me on how to make it work?

Sorry if this post makes no sense, wine and sleep deprivation don't mix Blush

mschillpill · 26/02/2012 22:48

Hi folks,

Thanks for this thread Nectarina. I loved your (/your friend's /the Canadian lady's) technique. Going through the success stories in the thread gave me resolve. I apologise here for the long post.

History: DD is 9.5 months old. She has always been fed to sleep (me) or rocked to sleep (her dad). She wakes up numerous times in the night; I fed her lying down for the last 2 months and noco-sleeping became norm. We were against letting her cry on her own; nor did we have the energy for PU/PD.

Today: I started this technique for her morning nap today - she cried so badly, kept standing up on her cot; refusing to sit - forget lying down. Not to mention banging herself on the railings so many times. I got into the cot after half an hour of seeing her cry. She was furious that I was not going to feed her and kept head butting me after 15 mins. She cried angry tears and finally slept 1.5 hrs after a total crying time of 1 hour!

My Problem: When she woke up, her dad picked her up; she didn't smile at all for a while and when I went to kiss her, she tried slapping my face away!! lunch and playtime later, she just took a short nap in my arms right after I fed her in the afternoon; dinner, bedtime routine later, she was happy in her cot for 20 min and cried for 2 hours after that while I sat next to her cot crying too trying to console her. In that time, when I tried to pat her, she kept swatting my hand away!!!

Can a 9 month old actually hate her mum and with such vengeance?! Will this pass? Is there anyone else who has gone through such a reaction from their baby?? How do I show her that I do love her very very much?

BenderBendingRodriguez · 26/02/2012 22:52

Aww mschillpill, don't feel too bad. Babies are such primary-colour creatures, they only know how to show emotion in big broad strokes! The first time I spent two nights away from my DS, at a similar age, he totally blanked me for a day and a night afterwards. But he got over it with no hard feelings :) She is cross because things are changing in her world, but you need to have faith that you as her mummy are doing what's best for her and for you.

nectarina · 27/02/2012 10:34

benderbending
thats a tricky one - is there no-one else to put DS to bed? I presume you'd have thought of that if that was an option.
For most people its only the first couple of nights when it takes a long time, so if you can rope someone in to looking after DS that could work, or starting on a weekend so DH can help.
mschillpill
poor you. i think this is quite common. Baby realising that something they were quite happy with is changing. It will definitely pass quickly - just keep on hugging them, and telling them you love them, but they have to learn to go to sleep themselves.
Keep us informed...

OP posts:
BenderBendingRodriguez · 27/02/2012 10:45

That's a good idea, to start on a weekend. DH doesn't get home from work until 7.30-8pm on weeknights, hence no one else to help.

mschillpill · 28/02/2012 12:06

Thanks Benderbending and nectarina. Hope your issues are sorted soon, benderbending.

My update is this. I just put her down for her day time nap and she was down in 10 minutes! 10 minutes, I say! (Today is day 3) It's unbelievable. She seems to whimper a little bit now and again but settles herself in < 30 secs.

She does cry in the middle of the night but that I suppose was because she was hungry. Last night, I fed her, put her back in her cot drowsy and she looked around once and slept! Never ever has happened before. She woke up 2/3 times last night apart from the one for a feed. I just sat near her cot and let her be. When she sat up and cried, I let her go on for a min and then started massaging her feet and calves. That made her lie down and just fall asleep! It feels like someone suddenly replaced my super fussssy baby with another one! Hope it stays this way!

And oh! She isn't so cross with me any longer... :)
Love you, folks!

Mjtay · 28/02/2012 14:26

Only just discovered this thread!! So sorry I don't have time to read the whole thing. I really think this is my answer. Been trying to get our DD nearly 24 weeks to settle herself. About 4 weeks ago, she did for about 5 days then point blank refusal. Biggest problem I have Is her day time naps have always been taken in the car, buggy, bouncer or at home her swing. I unfortunately can't get away from this for work reasons. My main question is about picking her up. She is a very windy baby. So when she regularly wakes an hour after she's gone to sleep(by any means, rocking etc!) it's normally as she has wind and needs to burp!! Any ideas how I get around this?! Xxx

nectarina · 28/02/2012 15:29

mjtay are you feeding dd just before bed? if so I'd recommend starting the whole bedtime routine with a feed (then bath, pyjamas, book, songs or whatever after) to give her time to get her wind up.
But I'd like to add that I attributed all kinds of problems to my DD having sleep problems ( wind, teething etc) and it turned out that she just needed to sleep train, and the problems don't interfere with her sleep/ So what I'm saying is just because your DD wakes up burping, doesn't mean it was the burp that woke her.

OP posts:
Mjtay · 28/02/2012 16:42

Thanks nectarina that does make sense! I really hope ur right!! Hopefully find out soon. DD has a bit of a cold at the mo so gonna give it a go when she's better. Just feels mean otherwise. (get out clause or what!!) it's just often in the night she goes do deep when I feed her I can hardly wake her to get her burp up, but once laying, shell wake 10/20/60/90 mins later screaming pulling her legs up, and to be honest she does really cry much so I know it's pretty serious when she does. Xx

Mjtay · 28/02/2012 16:44

Doesn't cry much. Damn I phone!! Xx

cmm · 28/02/2012 20:02

Just wanted to say thankyou again for this thread! Am on night ten and last night he slept 730-4 and the. 415-6.15! The only thing think I've done wrong is moved to next stage too soon and so ended up going bsck which shouldnt have done but have now! Anyway, he's falling asleep without crying at all now and usually between 10-20 mins!!!! Amazing! Will keep you posted. Xx

nectarina · 01/03/2012 19:30

cmm oh good, thats going very well so soon.

I think I'm going to be needing advice though - DD is sleeping through most nights, and at worst wakes once or twice - but after nearly two months of doing this she still takes 45 mins to go to sleep, and there's always a bit of crying. I know she's not really upset, but I didn't want to hear this at all. Any suggestions?

OP posts:
Mjtay · 01/03/2012 21:29

The way I try to look at it nectarina, is if I rock DD off she still moans for while, just cos she's tired, so she may as well be in her cot. Well I was gonna wait till LO was over her cold before attempting this, but last nite thought I'd give it a go as I could always just pick her up!! So anyways, 45 mins of just moaning, not crying! Woke at 3 am and settled again in 30 mins with no feed. Cold woke her :( so calpol, saline drops, failed attempts to suck it out and back off. Was up for 1 1/2 hours in total, so not bad consisting. Naps were taken in her bouncer and car seat away from home, and self settled. This eve was over an hour, but no tears! Happy so far!!

But... What is an ideal routine for feeds and naps for (nearly) 6 month old?! Cannot seem to time her feeds to feed before bedtime bath etc, or ill end up bathing at 7.30!!! She normally wakes 8/8.30 btw TIA Xxxx

BenderBendingRodriguez · 02/03/2012 08:20

So I think we're going to start doing this tomorrow night...thought it might help to restate my goals (to myself). Ideally I want DD to sleep in her cot all night and not expect to come into our bed when I go to bed. I am happy to feed her in the night if she's hungry, after all she is still fairly little, but I don't want her to use me as a dummy all night.

She is really stubborn though. I tried some in-the-cot soothing last night after she had been fed (both sides) and put back down fast asleep, then woken up twice and cuddled back to sleep by DH. She will fight going to sleep/being asleep with all she's got. Both times DH put her back down, she was asleep but woke within minutes and started pissed-off yelling. I sat by the cot and soothed for at least ten minutes and she did relax and start to drop off, but shook herself back awake so she could shout at me some more.

Similarly, I put her down for a nap about 20 minutes ago (up since 5am, same as every day). She was asleep but woke within minutes and has been shouting ever since, in a tired and crabby way. I'll be honest, I don't have the energy to go and see to her right now Blush because as soon as she sees me she will wake up and demand to be picked up. And she needs to sleep. She has black rings round her eyes. Meanwhile I have a constant headache and am impatient with my 3yo's constant prattling. We can't go on like this.

Mjtay · 02/03/2012 20:51

Did u try this bender?! Xx