Advice on sleeping longer at night

[bunnyrabbit]

Need some advice.
DS is 7 wks and since I've had to formula feed I've been loosely following GF for sleep and feed times, but about 30 minutes later, so my dh can enjoy bathtime. DS has always been good at going straight to sleep after a night feed and will lay in his cot in the mornings quite happily gurgling to himself, as long as his isn't hungry. But we have a worrying trend.

I feed him at 10.30/11pm and he used to wake up at 3ish and happily take only 3oz (normally give 5oz in a day feed) and go back to sleep till 6.30/7 ish. He has now started waking up at 1.30/2 and crying after his feed. He then wakes again at 5 ish.

Last night I gave him another 2 oz after the 2 o'clock feed and he still cried for another 30 mins befor ehe settled at 3.15. He then woke at 5.15!! I left him talking to himself until 6, fed him 4 oz and then had to lay with him on my chest for 30 mins to get him to sleep. Haven't done this since he was 3 weeks old. He threw up twice and eventually nodded off. He has reflux, so it's not unusual for him to be sick, and he is on gaviscom and his cot is raised, but I'm not sure it's the reflux causing the problem.

I fed him 3oz at 8 so we could get back to our normal routine, and now he seems fine.

The change in times to two night feeds instead of one has been going on for a week now, although the crying after a feed onlty started last night.

GF reccomends not upping the 10.30pm feed until all other feeds have been increased, but DS is already taking 30oz in a day, which is more than reccomended for a 10 1/2 lb baby. Also I iknow I should be cutting down the numer and amount of nightfeeds, not increasing them.

I don't understand why he is happy to go 4 hours between feeds during the day, but only 3 or less after the 10.30pm feed.

One night, after feeding at 6.30, I decided to leave him and see how long he'd sleep. He went to 11.30 so I know he can go 5 hours.

Yours concerned
BR
PS sorry about the long post.

BR, have you tried giving him boiled water when he wakes as you know he has taken all he needs in the day?

Also, is he having too much sleep in the day, and maybe is waking more because he isn't as tired?

I'm restricting his day sleeps to 4 to 4 1/2 hours and he goes to bed about 7.30/8ish usually half asleep. Do you think that's too much?

I'm a bit dubious about giving water as he does have reflux and gaviscom is a thinckener, so seems a bit silly to give him water as this will dilute the feed. However, I may give this a go if he gets any worse.

Cheers
BR

BR, I agree it sounds like it might not be the refux that caused him to throw up after his night feed, if he is having more than he needs in the day and having more at night, it may be over-eating that is causing him to be sick.

4 - 4 1/2 hours sleep in the day sounds about right to me, but I suppose another option might be to shorten it, and see if this has any effect.

Just had a thought, my ds is 8 1/2 weeks old, and about a week ago, he seemed to be waking more and being hungrier, he then put on over a pound that week, so he must have been having a growth spurt. I think it's every 3-4 weks they have one, so this could be the cause of your ds's more frequent wakings.

BTW, we have far from cracked it with the night-time feeds and sleeps, (see 'NSB up for sale part 2' thread!)

bunnyrabbit - I wouldn't worry about upping the 10.30pm feed - better to get the milk down him at this time than have to do two feeds in the night. My ds (now 6 months) did exactly the same thing about that age. I thought I was on my way to dropping the night feed and then suddenly he started waking more from hunger - he always drank more ozs than recommended for his weight as well. I would make up 7oz bottles and then let him take as much as he wants at 10.30. Also in the night I used to change my ds nappy half way through so he would wake up enough to get another couple of ozs in! It will get better I bet he is just growth spurting.

Thanks for the advice. Could well be a growth spurt. I'm going to leave it tonight and see if the same thing happens. If it does I'll up both the 6.30 and 10.30 feeds and see what happens.

Has anyone tried Aptimil Extra? Someone suggested giving this to DS for the last feed to keep him going longer.

BR

Have tried SMA White, which I think is more or less same thing. Worked a treat with ds1, but just made my ds2 really constipated, so put him back on SMA Gold.

Good luck tonight!

What a nightmare night.
Fed DS at 10.30 and he went down after about 10 mins.
He woke at 1.30 so fed him and took till 2.45 to get him to stop crying and go down. He then woke at 4.30 cuddled him till 5 then fed him again. He didn't go down until 5.45. He was sick again in his cot so he wan't have wanted it.

He was still crying and aggitated this morning. Usually goes straight down for his morning nap but took half an hour to settle him. Thought it might be constipation/trapped wind, but he did a big nappy about 11.30 and is still unhappy.

He's not running a temperature. Do you think he's just playing up? We were going to start controlled crying when he's 2 months, as he already listens for us coming up the stairs and starts crying, but I'm not sure I want to do it now. Besides, I'm not sure if there's something wrong....

BR

I think at 7 weeks he is a bit little to be "playing up". I think the key is to be consistent with how you handle him in the night. When my ds started messing about in the night I tried lots of different things to try and settle him (dummy, patting, cuddling, bringing into bed post 5am,) and I think he just got confused and started waking more. It wasn't until I got really at the end of my tether and decided on a plan of attack - which was basically I fed him if it had been longer than 4 hours and if not I would go to him after 10 mins and just kept checking and reassuring every 10 mins. He did settle back down after about 3/4 nights of this.

Not sure why I feel qualified to dish out advice - I am currently having telephone consultations with GF as my ds still hasn't slept through more than 8 nights on the trot!!

Good luck tonight - hope its better.

Sorry you had a bad night BR. Another thought, do you think your teats are too fast flowing for him?

My ds2 used to cry after night-time feeds because when he was sleepy he didn't seem to be able to cope with the flow from the teats that came on the Avent bottles (number 2 teats). It seemed to make him gulp his milk a bit and gave him really bad tummy ache/trapped wind.
I swapped him onto the Dr. Brown's bottles, which happened to come with a number 1 teat, and he took his feeds slower, but was much better. Think it was a combination of the slower flow and the air-flow bottles.

That could explain why your ds was upset for a while in the night after feeds, if he was sleepy taking them cos he didn't really need to wake for them, he might have taken in loads of wind and got tummy ache. Then it will take a while for the wind to get out of his system, which could be why he is still upset.

HTH

All I will add is I think around 6 /7 weeks is the time when babies are most unsettled, he will calm down. I know it doesn't seem like it but it is still early days. Just keep telling yourself things will improve.

At seven weeks he can't possibly 'play up' he will have absolutely no idea how - so don't even think like that as it will drive you mad. Also, I think two night feeds at seven weeks is fantastic, personally. I wish I'd been so lucky!

Thanks for your thoughts. He was better last night, went down after night feeds, and was a darling today, so cute and smiley.

I will keep an open mind, but he does go quiet when he hears someone coming up stairs.... don't mind the night feeds so much, as long as he goes down afterwards, just worried that we're going backwards.

He's crying now, better go and be mummy...

BR

How is it going Bunny Rabbit? Saw your thread about Dr Brown's bottles, have you decided to go for them yet?

hi there ...

Is it actually possible to contact GF ? I posted a msg before abt my baby who fights sleep ... I wld loooooove to speak to her !

I am also on the GF routine for feeds mainly and trying to get DD to also do the nap times the same. However, I am unable to get her to sleep in her cot awake, let alone anywhere else without motion being involved.

BR ... have you heard of Zantac as a treatment for reflux ? My doctor in HK has presribed that for my DD ...
My DD has 1-2 feeds a night ... I am desperately trying to train her to have just the one ,. She has done so quite a few times btw 3-4am , but then s'times does the 2:30 and 5:30 am which kills me as my day then starts at 5:30. I hve done the dummy and cold water tricks to no avail ! Any other tips ? As for controlled crying , I am put of starting it until 3 months ...DD seems so small still ! She is jsut under 5 kg. Also, I cannot bare the thought of the proccess taking 2 wks ! I tried for 3 nights before and no improvement whatsoever .

Hi Cords,
Not heard of Zantac. I'll ask my GP.

You can contact GF and there is a thread on this somewhere. I believe it's quite expensive.

Your DD sounds exactly the same as my DS. How old is she?
He has been much better the last week, mostly 3/4 am and I'm not sure if it's the bottles or not, but I'm sticking with them. I've even stopped using Infacol. My husband went to him the other morning at 5am and he fell asleep on his chest, so I guess he didn't want feeding......

We do sometimes use a dummy in the evenings if he gets himself in a state, but we're trying not to make it a habit.

We have the same problem of him not going down if he is remotely awake, so will also be trying CC at 12 weeks but will go with the flow as I know some people say it didn't work for them this early but did when they tried it a month later.

BR

Sorry Elena2 meant to add that I am using the bottles and I'm sure they are making a difference.

BR

I am speaking to GF at the minute - you need to call the number in the back of the book and then send her an email its £125 - £170 depending on the complexity of your problem! I paid full wack, I have been speaking to her every day for about 3 weeks and I don't feel like she is clock watching. Certainly helping ... although progress is slow - I do feel we are getting there.

BR - I hesitated posted this... but I will.... hope you don't take it the wrong way.
Control crying should NOT be done before 6 months (even the doctors/specialists highly recommending it would say that).
12 weeks is too young. Not attending a baby who is crying at that age is "telling" him that his parents are not available to respond to his needs and - sorry - at that age all he can do is cry to alert you of a need when you are not next to him.
I would suggest that you take a different approach to the problem by using a dummy more proactively (you are right not to resort to it all the time), carrying him in a sling to comfort him. Also putting him to bed before he is asleep and with a little music... he needs to find his bed to be a place of rest not distress

I don't know if this helps.... I just felt I needed to "inform" you that 12 weeks is too early for CC

Agree with Pupuce: 12 weeks is too early for CC.

When dd woke up in the night I used a dummy. Mostly it worked, although we did have a few nightmare nights when she just wouldn't settle. Like you, we were loosely following GF (but probably more loosly than you by the sounds of it).

I found the following helped:

1. I stopped waking her up at 11pm (well, 12pm for us as we were an hour later) - like your ds sh usually slept about 5 hours.
2. I gave a her a good-ish feed when she did wake up, but if she woke up again within about 4 hours I just gave her a dummy. I would keep giving her the dummy until she either slept or became quite adamant that she wanted a feed! If it was 4 hours or more later I just fed her, and it was this feed that I gradually cut down on.

Also found a musical mobile useful as a cue for sleep.

After a week or so we were down to one night feed (the late 11pm one) - making fewer feeds than GF recommends I know, but it workd for us! She slept through the night from about 14 weeks.

Hope that makes sense!

what is GF?

what is GF?

Spod.... where have you been ?????
Gina Ford.... everyone knows that ! - I hope you can take a joke after all your lack of sleep

i also thouyght 2 mths too young for cc but I am desperate for a soloution.... I am sure that it is not right to aid her to sleep each time, but this is the only way. When she is slightlky awake, she opens her eyes and wakes up after being put down. Also, during the day she cannot stay asleep for more than half an hour at best ! I am feeling very depressed abt this sleep thing and desperately feel the need for help.

BR ..she is almost 9 weeks ... at the moment she goes to bed 6:30 ish owing to fact she sleep sso little during the day ... usually wakes once early on, then sleeps till I wake her for feed 10-11 pm ish ... Then sometimes she wakes one in the night btw 3-4am but wakes again at 5:15-5:45 ... !!!! i cld cope if she slept during the day w'out contant aid ...then i cld sleep ! i feel sooo wretchedlt tired all the time.

does e'one 's DD or DS sleep 2 hrs at lunch ????

My ds has just started to have 2 hours at lunchtime and he is 8 months old! (Now I have written this he will no doubt stop)

As such I have no suggestions, your ds's wake up times sound exactly like my ds at that age. I have lots of sympathy and hugs though. My only point would be that we used a dummy to get us through a tricky patch at 5-7 months and now we don't need to use it at all, so giving a dummy is not the end of the world and its certainly kinder than cc (and more likely to work).

my dd2 used to wake every 2 hours at night till she was around 12 weeks old. she was a very hungrey baby, and at around 8 weeks i hardley slept. then when she was around 14 weeks old, she just cracked it and started sleeping thro most nights. now she is 14months old, and still has a 2-3 hour nap during the day and sleeps pretty well at night.

i think maybe u need to find something that works for u if GF isnt owrking, but at around 6-8 weeks babies have growth spurts which mean sleeping and eating a lot, or in some cases just feeding.

hope things improve soon.