Dropping Night B'Feeds

[clarejane]

I'm not sure if this should be under Sleep or Feeding but here goes - DS is almost 10 months, on about 4 BF's and 3 solid meals a day. He has never slept through the night. He usually wakes once or twice and I have got into the habit of BF'ing him back to sleep because it's easy and quick. I am at the point where I don't believe he needs to feed overnight, he doesn't seem hungry, it's just habit on my part. I am also chronically tired and think I will be a better mum, wife and all round human being with a bit more sleep! I have decided to go cold turkey on the night feeds. I know this won't necessarily means he sleeps through, but I think it's a step in the right direction and a habit which is no longer helpful for either of us.

The first night he woke at 1.30 & 4 - his normal times - and settled back to sleep with a dummy and a cuddle, finally waking for the day at 7am when I BF him. Brilliant! Or so I thought... Last night he didn't wake until 4.30am and I tried unsuccessfully to resettle him until 6 - when I gave up and fed him and then we both slept till 9.30. I am willing to let him cry for 5 minutes at a time but no longer. To settle him I'm using a dummy, shushing, rocking, singing etc. DH is good at settling him but he also has to be up and out for work in the morning. I know the key to this is consistency but how does anyone do it?!?

Thoughts, advice, experience, very much appreciated!

The second night of a change is often harder. Stick with it and see what happens!

The only thing I would say that you may find it takes a lot longer to do resettle with the dummy/shushing/rocking/singing than it would have done by giving a quick comfort feed. And if it's comfort/attention he's waking for, he's still getting that even without the feed.

But I would stick with it for a week or two before you review your approach - after all, he may be one of those babies who decides it's not worth calling for you if he's not going to get a feed.

Personally, I kept offering DD overnight comfort feeds until about a month ago, when we decided on sleep training. DD had been sleeping through since 13 months (she's now nearly 20 months), but only intermittently and the night-wakings were getting longer. In the end, we did a little bit of CC, with DH doing all the resettling so she wouldn't expect a BF. It didn't take much for DD to get the message about going back to sleep (thankfully!! CC is never easy for anyone...).

Good luck!

Hi Clarejane
I could have written this post!
My DS is 10 months old and I used to always feed him back to sleep when he woke 2-3 times a night,like you say,it's alot quicker and easier.
However....
I wanted to break that association before it broke me IYSWIM
So I basically gave him his last feed then DH went in every waking after that.
On the first night he was trying to settle him for 1hr30 mins and he only woke once.
The second night and for 2 consecutive nights he woke twice but took 15-20mins to settle each time by DH shush-patting.
Unfortunately we then had a wedding to go to which involved an overnight stay at my mums which bodged the whole thing up then illness struck which has turned him into a boob monster again
But I believe to do it successfully,persistence is the key,with DH helping is a must.
DH has work,as do I,but he got used to the wakings just as I had done over the last 10 months
I'll be watching this thread with interest as once DS is all better we'll be starting night weaning again!
If you search for 'multiple choice for bf'ing Mum's' you'll see a rather interesting thread I started,so you know your not alone!
(sorry can't link it from my phone)
Good luck!

Thanks for the support ladies! Last night was better - just one waking at 4.30am and DH was able to resettle him quite quickly. We'll stick with it and definitely keep sending DH in, I agree that seems to work best.
InmaculadaConcepcion - I'm hoping he is one of those babies!
BenRoo - good luck with the 2nd attempt!
Thanks again :)

oooh, so glad I found this thread. I desperately want to nightwean DS, who is 14 months and sometimes wakes 3 or 4 times a night. I work FT now and cannot cope without more sleep.

I read the Dr Jay Gordon nightweaning stuff, which recommends a quick feed and cuddle then moving away, patting and shushing but not feeding. I fear this as I know if I feed him but pop him back in his cot awake he will stand right up and yell with rage... it's almost impossible to lie him down when he's like that... anyone managed to get a 'standing' crier back to sleep?
I am tempted to just send DH in to deal with it, mainly cos I am frightened I'll cave and feed him. I've never been able to relax when he is really screaming, we've never done much CC.
I need to start this but am also dreading it, IYSWIM. So reassurance is welcome!

Hi blackcurrants!
Yes, get DH to do the resettling - with DD, it made her worse if I went in. And accept that the first few nights are likely to be hard going, so pick a weekend or time when neither of you need to get up for work.

If your DH does rapid return (basically CC, but you only leave them for a couple of mins, never for very long) it may be easier on you both than full-on CC.
It depends on the child - some get over-stimulated if parents are being too "busy" with actions like rocking, patting etc. to get them back to sleep, so it's usually better to leave them a bit longer and try and keep movements/speech to an absolute minimum.

Or your DH could try the gradual withdrawal technique - stays in the room and just (attempts) to lie your DS down each time he stands up, saying nothing more than "Sleepy time, DS, lie down", gradually moving his chair (or whatever) further away until he's outside the door. It takes a few weeks and a lot of patience, but it's an alternative to CC.

It's not easy, but having been through it, it's worth gritting your teeth and following a plan. DD is now sleeping through nicely and is better-tempered generally as a result (as are we all!)

Good luck

heh, thanks for the tips. DH went in last night and they ended up basically both sleeping cuddledup on a mattress on the floor.... it's the physical contact he wants at night, it seems, it doesn't have to have a breast attached (thank god!). He's not been this clinging since he was a newborn so I have to hope that it's a phase and will pass. And in the meantime, it's DH's turn ... well I have done the last 14 months, I suppose...

So, after a week of DH doing the resettling and going cold turkey on the night feeds DS is now sleeping through until 6am, having a small feed and going back to sleep until 8am! This is a major improvement for us and everyone is feeling a lot happier :) I'm glad we stuck with it and it really wasn't as difficult as I'd feared - sending DH in meant we didn't have to leave DS to cry and the wakings just gradually reduced in number and duration. The only bad night was when I 'helpfully' tried to take DH a dummy to use at 4am, DS caught one sight (whiff?) of me and got a bit upset. Other than that it has been manageable and completely worth it. I know this isn't a linear thing and I'm sure we'll have some broken sleep in the future but for now things are way better than a week ago! Good luck to everyone else doing this at the moment :)

Great stuff, clarejane - I'm so glad to hear it's worked with such minimal stress for all concerned!!

This is a topic close to my heart at the moment! My DS is 12 mo and I have gone cold turkey twice with him already - once at around 9.5 months and once at 11. Both times it only took two horrible nights of cuddling but no feeding for him to get the message and then he stared doing reliable 9-11 hours stretches of sleep.

HOWEVER, nasty bouts of teething have seen me crumble on both occasions. When he's teething his solid food intake goes down and this, combined with the comfort of BF, means that there is no way I can settle him without feeding in the night. I know that when this current spell of teething is over I will have to withdraw again, and I do worry that I'm sending him mixed messages, but to refuse him milk in the night when he is both hungry and distressed seems wrong on so many levels. And then of course it becomes habit again and he wakes mainly for milk rather than due to the teething pain....

So I suppose I'm just saying that I think night-weaning can be massively effective in improving sleep, but as Ben Roo can attest, you may well have to do it more than once! Anyone else had this problem? I've come to the conclusion that my decision to continue to BF has so many advantages that I just have to accept that night-dependance is one of the disadvantages and go with it without getting too stressy.

Yes, I think that was a lot of the reason why I carried on until 18 and a half months - well, there was always something that made continuing BF a good idea! I think we hit a good window for weaning when we did - between teething orogenies, sleep regressions and we thankfully had a couple of illness-free weeks too (although the full-weaning began because DD had a cold and couldn't feed without hugely frustrating herself or biting me - it was a no-brainer!)

Yes, I can imagine having to do this more than once too... We realised it wasn't going to fly last week, but the teeth are through now and it seems DS is over his worst clingyness now. BUT he's still waking 3 times a night, and I am just too chuffing knackered (it's actually affecting my productivity at work, and making me snappish and miserable at home) to keep going to his room and feeding him... we think we're going to do some nightweaning this coming week, when DH will go in and shush-pat from 11pm to 6am, basically, and I will still feed at bedtime and on waking. I don't want to stop BF altogether, but I do need to stop at night!

Good luck with that blackcurrants. If your DS is anything like mine I am sure it will work. I am convinced that 99% of his night-waking during non-teething periods is purely due to habit rather than need, so a night or two of no milk should sort him out.

We're off on holiday for a week on Saturday, so I'm going to wait until we're back at home before pulling the plug on night feeds again (besides which he's still suffering with the wretched teeth at the moment).

Weirdly, unlike the rest of the posters here, things are much worse if my DP tries to settle the boy at night. This just makes him apoplectic with anxiety (not at all nice for DP) so it still has to be me doing settling, even sans boobs.

Hi night-weaning buddies

Oh my days I am in night-weaning boob monster separation anxiety hell at the moment.
Since my DS's illness both DH & I have been ill,in fact I've been ill twice and can't help but think it's because I'm not getting any rest/sleep.

We have just gone through an attempt at DH settling each night waking,which had increased to 3-4 times since his illness.
I'm not sure whether it's a)separation anxiety or b)he's grown even more used to our company but he now will not settle with DH. Well he will,on his shoulder,but will wake as soon as his body touches the cot. This has resulted in very very tired Mummy & Daddy who both have to work and yes you guessed it I've given in and fed him AND had him in bed with us
I'm weak aren't I
I've even tried a smidgen of cc,with the theory that if he settles himself then he'll sleep better and I mean like going in every minute,which has probably confused the little monkey even further!

Someone mentioned that there is a developmental spurt/sleep regression at 46 weeks which he's bang on for...

Any words of wisdom,encouragement or support much appreciated as always...

You're not weak - sometimes you've just got to do the thing that maximises everyone's sleep in the short term and tackle sleep training when you're feeling stronger. Also, instituting changes during a sleep regression phase is a lot harder, so it's probably worth giving up for the time being and trying again when he's through it.

Sorry to hear you've been ill....keep reciting This Too Shall Pass to yourself....

Thanks IC
I just feel utterly useless at the moment.
DH thinks that we're taking steps backwards when I feed and/or he comes into bed with us.
We actually don't mind DS being in bed with us we just would rather he wasn't feeding so much as that might make him more dependent on it and then the next phase of night-weaning will be harder.
Hmmph I don't know...time for some chocolate I think

BenBoo you aren't taking a step backwards if you feed or bring DS into your bed at night, you are looking after your baby in the most natural way possible.

Is your DH aware of all the benefits of responding to DS needs, for instance he will be more confident later in life? Also have to disagree that it will make the next phase harder, I think it might make it easier as DS will trust you and know that you are always there for him.

If you are tired though there are things you can do. If he comes into your bed do you sleep better then? Could that be possible for some of the night?

There is some info on sleep here and here and on night weaning here.

See if your local library has got this book and if you think you need it, ask your HV if they run the free Sleep Clinics in your area.

If DH is good at settling him at night could you try doing that when DH is off work for a few days?

Some great points and info thanks JJJ
I'm familiar with The Sears family,and appreciate being reminded of their advice! In fact I think I'll go dig out their book!
DH is very good and very keen,I think when he sees me crumbling it makes him want a short sharp solution to gain more sleep. I'll show him the info tonight!

So sorry to hear you're having a rough time BenRoo - cumulative sleep deprivation plus illness is truly awful. I suppose at least if DS will settle on DH's shoulder you know that he's not really hungry and that might give you a bit more will power to feed a bit less perhaps. I know that all of this makes sense intellectually in the cold light of day - then in the middle of the night it's completely different! We are sticking with it. We've had one night where he slept 12 hours straight and the other nights he's been going thru to 5 or 6 without a feed. So there is light at the end of the tunnel, I promise! Good luck :)

Oh so hard, BenRoo - I feel for you!

I have been using the 'Not after Midnight' rule for feeding (well, DS is a bit of a gremlin) and last night he slept from 7pm -11.30 (feed and drop back in Cot on his tum... he's a tum chap) and then he woke at 2am, DH patted him on the bum for 15 minutes and he went back to sleep (he never really really woke, I think - it's when he sits/stands up that he won't settle without boob/bellowing) - sadly he woke again at 3.30 - but went straight back to sleep with DH patting again (and I LOVED staying in Bed!) but then woke at 5.30 after being violently sick. Poor lad. We got him into the shower and then dressed him again and he spent the next hour in bed with us, nursing and dozing. He always comes into our bed for a BF and a cuddle around 6-6.30 anyway, so that was ok.
I love that DH is resettling him... this has potential. I wish you all equal maybe/hopefully success!

12 hours straight ClareJane
That is amazing... Did you still wake up? Bet ya did, go on admit it ;p

blackcurrants all of the below (or is it above) sounds very familiar.

After speaking to DH,we've decided to hold off for a while as it's noticeable in all our moods that it's just not clicking at the moment.
I'll still be watching my fellow night-weaners though for tips and updates!

BenRoo - I really think that although it feels like two steps back you have to keep telling yourself that you're in this for the long haul and these temporary setbacks are just part of the process (the long, sleep-deprived, instinct-questioning why-god whhhhyyyyy process). That's what I try and do, anyway. JJJ is absolutely right - you're looking after your baby and he is a baby after all, not a programmable baby-shaped machine.

My DS is still being a bit rubbish with wakings, even though teeth-wise he seems much better today. It's habit with him, pure and simple. Post-holiday, I will launch The Great Milk Withdrawal (Phase 3).

Your so right BR44 a good attitude definitely helps...
'I am not bionic woman with a bionic baby'

Actually I think I want to be a bionic woman with a bionic baby, sounds pretty cool .

ooh, would I never get tired? Sounds good! I would have more time to MN work. :)

We had a stalled attempt at nightweaning 2 weeks ago, but he was teething and the time wasn't right. Now it feels extremely right, not least because he seems unable to actually fall asleep on the boob at the moment- he does that 'jerking awake at the last minute' thing. FOR AGES. Whereas if DH goes in, he gets him back to sleep in 10 minutes. So it feels about right.

Ummmmm, OK, yes BenRoo! I did wake up because it was soooo quiet! Typical eh? the 12 hrs straight was just a one off, we're back to one night waking on the dot of 4.30am. Sometimes DH can settle him, last night we gave up after 45 mins of trying to settle and I just fed him. Then he slept until 8 when I woke him. Oh well. Totally agree with keeping a good attitude about it and remembering they're not baby-machines! That made me laugh :)