Dropping Night B'Feeds

[clarejane]

I'm not sure if this should be under Sleep or Feeding but here goes - DS is almost 10 months, on about 4 BF's and 3 solid meals a day. He has never slept through the night. He usually wakes once or twice and I have got into the habit of BF'ing him back to sleep because it's easy and quick. I am at the point where I don't believe he needs to feed overnight, he doesn't seem hungry, it's just habit on my part. I am also chronically tired and think I will be a better mum, wife and all round human being with a bit more sleep! I have decided to go cold turkey on the night feeds. I know this won't necessarily means he sleeps through, but I think it's a step in the right direction and a habit which is no longer helpful for either of us.

The first night he woke at 1.30 & 4 - his normal times - and settled back to sleep with a dummy and a cuddle, finally waking for the day at 7am when I BF him. Brilliant! Or so I thought... Last night he didn't wake until 4.30am and I tried unsuccessfully to resettle him until 6 - when I gave up and fed him and then we both slept till 9.30. I am willing to let him cry for 5 minutes at a time but no longer. To settle him I'm using a dummy, shushing, rocking, singing etc. DH is good at settling him but he also has to be up and out for work in the morning. I know the key to this is consistency but how does anyone do it?!?

Thoughts, advice, experience, very much appreciated!

I just wondered how people are getting on with this, two weeks down the line? My DS has been a nightmare since we got home from a holiday, so last night I decided to hold out on the feeding, no matter how grizzly things got. The night went like this -

6.45 Asleep
11.00 Awake, followed by 1.5 hours of crying, writhing (him), singing and pacing (me) until he finally went back to sleep
12.30 Back to sleep
4.30 Awake. More crying/pacing etc.
4.45 Back to sleep (WAY less stressful than his first waking)
5.40 Awake. Short feed (I'd given myself 5.30 as the earliest I would feed him, and given that he's often up for the day at 6, this didn't seem too bad)
5.45 Back to sleep
7.00 Awake

Now, I've been here before and although things have improved for a few weeks I somehow find myself getting back in to bad habits. So I'd be really interested in carrying this thread on and seeing how we all fare in the long-term?

Good luck tonight, all...

Hi BR44 - well done you for getting through to 5.40 without a feed! Maybe a few more nights like the last one and he just won't bother waking up at 11am and 4am anymore. That hour and a half pacing/singing must have been rough but hopefully you won't have to do it too many more times. That's pretty much how it went for us and DS is now going from 7.30 - 6am on a regular basis :) (famous last words...) He's also recently got a lot more mobile so I think he is burning more energy during the day which helps with sleep. I've been BF'ing a little more during the day too because he seems to want it and maybe that is tanking him up over night. Who knows?! We were away for a couple of nights this weekend and both nights he just had one waking and a feed around 5 then back to sleep until 7ish. I decided that was OK since he was in unfamiliar surroundings and we were sharing a room. One more thing that has helped us really get into the no feeding/waking before 6am routine - I've been using earplugs! I can still hear any major yelling but it stops me jumping up at every snuffle, so gives him a chance to resettle on his own. I actually had 7hrs uninterrupted sleep last night - complete bliss! Wishing the same for you tonight - good luck!

Hi all

Ermmm I've been a bit naff relaxed about the whole thing over the last 2 weeks and have been bringing him into bed at the 1st waking
I have noticed a marked improvement in his mood/confidence/progression so not sure whether this is why or maybe I'm just looking for justification?!??
I'm now just waiting for the next developmental leap *quivers with fear...

It sounds like you two have almost mastered your LO's sleeping routine and for that ladies I applaud you!!
1hr and a half crying sounds like torture though and well done for getting through it!!!

We have the week off leading up to his birthday in a few weeks so intend tackling it then.

Please please keep this thread open,I look daily to see if anyone's written anything!

Keep up the good work!

I was in a very similar situation a few months ago. when DS2 was 11 months i took the opportunity (which i realise i was lucky to have) to go cold turkey on the night feeds while having a summer holiday at my parents house. My mum and DP took turns to go to him in the night. First few nights he was furious (he is a determined fellow). However, after about a week or so of not being fed he started to sleep through til 6ish most nights - exceptions being teething, leaking nappy etc.
So it is worth it, really hard for a few days but stick with it. If you can get DH to help think it is easier for baby to get the message.

However, mine is now 13 months and seems to think that actually 5am is a good time to start the day... hmmm, but that is for another thread.

Good luck, stick with it. uninterrupted sleep is a marvellous thing!

clarejane, that's brilliant! I am dead impressed. Last night was mixed - I still didn't feed him until past 5.30 but he woke up 3 times during the night and had to be settled with a cuddle. It took no more than 15 minutes, though. Yes, the hour and a half of wailing was not fun for anyone, but I had reached that point where I knew with certainty that however determined he was, I was more determined. Now I just have to keep that momentum going...

At the moment the boy is having an epic nap (1 hour 50 mins so far...) which is ENTIRELY ENTIRELY ENTIRELY out of character but I've heard many mothers say that their babies sleep better at night when they napped well during the day, so maybe it'll do him good tonight.

BenRoo and bumpertobumper - thanks for the encouragement! I wish I could get my DP to help more (he's very willing) but for some reason when he goes in to DS in the night he reacts as if poor DP is sticking forks in his eyes rather than trying to sooth him. Not a pretty noise. Ah well.

ONWARD!!!

Looks like everyone's doing pretty well.

I need to start cutting night feeds for return to (pt) work in 6 weeks...

DD (nearly 10 months) is a pretty good sleeper, with the average night being:

7.30 Bed
11ish Dreamfeed
Sometime between 3 and 5 another feed.

Last night I wore ear-plugs as my DP is a serious snorer. First I heard from DD was at 6.45am so I fed her, and as DP was still snoring I put the ear-plugs back in afterwards. I woke at 8.30 (!!) and went in to find DD sitting up in her cot playing with her toys. No idea how long she'd been awake!

I need some advice ladies please....

I'm not sure what to do
When I put my DS in his car seat after picking him up from nursery (after a 9 hour shift at work) he started wailing and didn't stop until we got home (15 mins)
He then started wailing again when I put him down so I could change out of my uniform (I work in a hospital,germs etc)
I knew he wanted feeding,but I usually make sure he's calm before feeding him. He was arching his back throwing himself around etc
I changed my clothes and took him into his room to feed him and he fell asleep on the boob....in his clothes 1 hour before he normally settles for bed.
So I've taken his trousers off and put him in his cot.
Well tonight we were going to start with DH resettling after I'd bathed and fed him to sleep and now I'm not sure what to do...
If he wakes in a little while,thinking it's a nap should I bath and change him or feed him again and resettle?
It feels like a disastrous night already
Confused and would appreciate your thoughts please???

BenRoo - this is way too late to be helpful now, I'm afraid, but I think in your situation I probably would have fed upon waking and delayed the whole thing by a day until he was starting with the normal routine.

How did it go? By the way, just wanted to say I have nothing but admiration for you dealing with a night-waker on top of doing what I;m sure is a physically demanding job. I've stopped working at the moment and am bloody knackered by the end of the day, so can't imagine how you must be feeling...

Better late than never BR44
If I'm completely honest... I'm feeling pretty useless at the moment.
Can't quite remember the details of the other night,but it wasn't good and last night was even worse!
I seem to remember muttering the word 'divorce' to my husband
I slept on the floor near DS cot for part of the second night running.
I am entering this night with not a clue how we're going to deal with it....

Thank you for the admiration but it's rather unjust I'm afraid...
I actually forgot I had work this morning it wasn't until I received a call from work I realised!

I imagine I'll have to go back to co-sleeping as I can't risk my job

How are you getting on?

Hi ladies - sorry for silence, had MiL staying with us (a whole other topic....)

BenRoo how are you doing today? Sounds like you had a rotten few nights. Agree with BR44 that dealing with broken nights AND a stressful job must be v.difficult indeed. Have things got any better?

BR44 did the long nap make any difference???

Well, after thinking I had cracked it, it all went to shit pot this weekend! DS had to sleep in his portable cot in our room for 4 nights as MiL staying in his room. First night fine. 2nd night he got sick and the next two nights he was awake every few hours and I blearily fed him. Ho hum. We'll see what tonight brings as he is back in his own room. Have to do it all over again next week for my mum's visit...which I am looking forward to a lot more

Good luck everyone!

Things are going fairly well here. The boy is still waking 2-3 times in the night but re-settles relatively quickly with either shh-shhing over the intercom or (more frequently) a cuddle from me. He's not had any milk before 5.30 am for nearly a week now.

I really have come to the conclusion that until you are 110% ready to do this properly, there is no point in trying to night-wean. I think that's why I tried and failed twice before. It's just stressful, tiring and upsetting for everyone. BenRoo - maybe you should wait a while? Your DS is 10 months, isn't he?Mine is nearly 13, and I do think that his being that little bit older has strengthened my resolve this time round. We'll see. Famous last words, and all that...

Clarejane - to be honest I don't think the nap made any difference. The day after I posted about that he went the whole day with not a single minute of sleep, and the night was not noticeably better or worse. I SOO sympathise with all the bed moving palaver. Any break from the norm makes my DS completely unpredictable.

Must go now - need to find a new home for the shredder after the little beast just plunged head-first into it after mountaineering off the armchair.

Oh no! Head first into the shredder?! That's a new one!

Totally agree you need to be 110% committed. Problem is I always feel that way during the day, I'm able to ignore any early evening wakings if I'm still up and pottering around. But once I'm asleep it's a whole different situation.

We did have a couple of weeks of no milk before 5.30/6am so I know he can do it. Must strengthen resolve and get back to that following our bed-moving hiccup!

Do you BF your LO down for naps? I just started doing this again in the last few days as he was really resisting going down. He goes in the cot sleepy but awake. Just a bit worried about setting up feed-to-sleep associations - but he's so unhappy without a good nap I'm not sure what else to do!

Am feeling generally a bit fed up with BF'ing and the endless broken sleep plus he seems to be going thru his separation anxiety phase so he can be v.clingy (and scratchy, grabby etc.). Obviously I love him to bits but it's hard isn't it?!

Yes, I do feed him to sleep for naps as well as his main sleep, against all advice to the contrary. I've decided that once this stops working I'll find an alternative and not worry about it until then. In the meantime it seems like lunacy to take away the one thing that gets him to nap. He only has one short nap per day now anyway, and life without it would be bonkers.

I know exactly what you mean about BF (13 months is a long time), but the way I see it is that it's served us so well in every other respect that I just have to accept that the drain on my time and energy is a disadvantage I just have to roll with since it was my decision not to persevere in giving him a bottle. That said, I am starting to get concerned that I just CAN'T IMAGINE bedtime without the winding down provided by BF, but I know that one day I will have to get there....

One thing at a time, eh? Have a good night (fingers crossed) all.

Hi Ladies.

BR44
Hows your LO's head after the shredder head dive? lol
My DS is 11 months now....
But i know what you mean, i keep thinking i'll leave it until he's a little bit older but the added pressure of working makes me want to get started now...
And i totally agree that you have to be 110% commited,firm & consistent too!!

Clarejane
I have had a terrible couple of weeks, (ive just tracked back and its not actually THAT long!) i think its all got on top of me. Do you find that it just builds up and then you explode/deflate...or is that just me?
How did your LO's first night back in his own room go?
My friend just returned from holiday with her 13mo and was dreading the first night back at home, but he actually slept better than when he was away, she thinks he was pleased to see his cot! Quite the revelation as he's another cot-dodger!

I feed my DS down for naps and at bedtime, its THE only way he will go to sleep without crying the house down.
Now, this is very topical as in my ''i dont know what i'm doing'' ''i'm a crap parent mode'' the other day i contacted a bf supporter and an hv and was advised to attempt a form of control crying (5min,6min etc etc) as they strongly felt that i had created a sleep association...
This has thrown me into complete confusion!
I have however taken a couple of days off with the intention of night weaning phase ?5...
I managed to give him some cows milk 1 hour before bedtime, in addition to his bf bedtime feed and have settled him quite easily in his cot with one of my pillows (my scent) He was half awake when i put him in the cot and he grumbled for a couple of mins, so we'll see how this evening goes before i consider the HV's advice...

With regards to naps... how many do your LO's have and for how long?
and do you play music to them at naps, and at night all night??
Oh and what are they wearing in bed in what temperature?
Questions,questions so many questions!

Good luck for tonight

OK, glad I'm not the only one still feeding him down for naps! He will sometimes go off on his own, especially if I'm not around. He has 2 naps a day - AM & PM - length varies day to day. But of course I am typing this with him on my lap as he has point blank refused to go down this morning...

I'm living in NYC at the moment so not sure what night time temperatures are like in the UK. He wears a vest, pyjamas with feet and a sleeping bag if it's chilly, blanket if it's milder . I'm not very good at checking the temperature & consulting the mothercare chart of how many layers / what tog etc - I just go by how his room feels to me. A doctor told me early on that most parents overdress their babies and it's better for them to be cooler than to overheat. Although on one of his recent terrible nights i'm pretty sure the little mite was freezing as DH had unhelpfully dressed him in one layer, no feet, no sleeping bag....

Last couple of nights have been a bit better - generally getting through to at least 5, sometimes 6am. There's no rhyme or reason though & that's what is soooo frustrating!

BenRoo - completely sympathise with the 'i'm crap at this, what am I doing?' feeling! we're all just doing our best and I'm sure you are a brilliant mum! Did you try the 5min CC? I know people who swear by it & with a tough job it might be worth a try...

BR44 Totally agree that the benefits of BF'ing outweigh the disadvantages. Especially for us with so much traveling back & forth UK - US. I am just feeling a bit like a human dummy and would quite like my body back please!

Good luck :)

Well... I've started our new routine tonight.
So far it's gone something like this...
Bf then bath then an attempt at warm cows milk, he didn't want it so I started a story (which is a new thing) and he dozed off in my arms!!! This is a FIRST! I'm not sure whether that's better but it's certainly different from feeding him down...
I'm ready to 'sleep train' the next few nights so shall see how he is when he next wakes.
Watch this space.

Good luck for this evening!

Well, BenRoo, how's the new routine going? I am astonished that he fell asleep on your lap! My DS has NEVER done this. I know I really need to move his last BF to before his story, otherwise he's never going to go down awake, but books make him really excited and AWAKE, so not overly optimistic...!

Things are okay here, but only okay. He's generally been waking once or twice a night and taking a little while to go back to sleep. The night before last he was awake from 1-4 am. Hideous. Better last night though, so I'm hoping it was just a freakish one-off.

Hi BR44
I started the 'new routine' as suggested by my hv. This originally involved a bit of cc. (which I wasn't really up for,but had reached new levels of desperation)
I've had to write it all down as my memory is absolutely terrible!
I won't bore you with all the details but to my relief and surprise he hardly cried the first or second night,the 3rd & 4th night it all went a bit boobs up and we lost momentum weakened and then after that we decided that DS was more than happy to just lay back down and re-settle with hands on him,so that's what we're currently doing.
He still wakes 2-3 times a night but the progress is that he now settles without bf and isn't fed between 7-5!
I'm chuffed that he recognises story time as bedtime and that he no longer asks for bf in the night. Last night he went 7-1.30!!!!
My husband thinks this is because I oiled our squeaky bed

I have to keep reminding myself of how it was only a month or so ago and that although it's only little steps it's still steps in the right direction.

I assume he is waking now through habit,so surely he'll get bored of waking up to only water and boring old Mummy & Daddy?!???!
BR 44 what does your LO wear to bed at night and what temp is the room? I do wonder whether I'm dressing my DS correctly

How's it going BR44 and BenRoo?

Have been occupied with parents visiting, DS in our room, DH away for a few nights etc. etc. DS now back in his room and in a fairly predictable routine of bed 7.30ish, one wake up & feed around 5, then back to sleep till 8ish. Which I'm very happy with!

He's just started crawling & pulling up like a maniac so I'm going to give him a bit longer before I work on dropping that last overnight feed or pushing it a bit later. Although he doesn't seem to take much and usually goes straight back to sleep so I think its habit more than anything. Maybe I'll try water instead.

Nice work BenRoo getting storytime to signal bedtime rather than boob!

BR44 when did you go down to one nap per day? I think we're headed there, he's definitely starting to drop the AM nap now he's doing better overnight. If it's not one thing...