Cracking up here...

[weakestlink]

Am running out of patience with DS2 - 6months.

He will only sleep in bed with me feeding him lying down then I can creep away after 10 mins or so and he'll sleep for up to 45mins there.
Or I have to feed him & hold him in my arms until he wakes up. If I try to transfer him anywhere he wakes up and I'm back to square one.

I am sure he needs sleep as he is very grumpy and constantly cat naps for 20-30 mins throughout the day (usually after feeding).

He won't sleep in the cot or Pushchair. I pushed him for an hour today and he didn't fall asleep - just sat there then cried for the last 10mins or so home.

I have tried controlled crying but even after 1.5hours he was still just screaming (I did go in every 10 mins to resettle but did not pick him up).

I don't really have a 'routine' with him yet but have started introducing solids at 9,12 & 5pm and he wakes up at 7am and goes to bed with me around 9pm. He feeds on average 2 times during the night :(

I don't really want to breastfeed anymore but he won't take a bottle (even of expressed milk) or drink from a cup so what does that leave?!

I can't leave him for more than an hour in case he wants to feed or sleep :( I have another DS who we think might have ASD and so his behaviour can be very challenging at times so I need all my energy to deal with him!

Help :(

michelle have you got a travel cot? Somebody suggested to me to use a travel cot in a different room to try and break the cycle... Have just but DS down in ours in the playroom and he's gone straight off! Brilliant! I have to take DS2 to preschool soon tho so am probably going to have to wake him up :( no wonder he's not in a routine!

I don't use sleeping bags for naps (yet) btw... Worth a try tho?!?

DD was like this at six months. BUT she cottoned on to food at 7 months, started dropping daytime feeds and by 10 months she was down to two breastfeeds a day and was suddenly sleeping through. OK, when I say 'suddenly' I really mean 'after a lot of persuasion and a certain amount of sitting in her room in the dark and breathing really quietly'.

On the other hand, she never did take a bottle and when I lost patience and stopped breastfeeding her when she was 15 months there was some er... yelling. Didn't last too long, thank goodness.

I did only have one though, so I just let her sleep on me while I watched boxsets. Sorry.

So I have no helpful advice. But I reckon there's hope!

No not got a travel cot. I can sometimes feed him to sleep in the sitting room but he yanks off the boob constantly to look around which is annoying. I'm going to have to stop this feeding to sleep business though because he's going into nursery a few days a week soon. Thankfully that means I can start taking the nights in turn with my husband and sleep in the spare room with ear plugs in. Can't wait for that. He started taking a bottle of formula not long after he took a dummy so he can be fed in the night now. That took seven months though- he just spat formula out before then. Buuuuuuut... My husband tells me that follow on milk tastes a lot nicer than baby formula so maybe that's it. Don't ask me why he's been trying formula! :o

Try trousers off, warm sleeping bag on for naps. You can sometimes creep away a bit easier if they're in a sleeping bag because they don't notice the temperature difference so much. It doesn't help with the where-is-my-mum-gone radar though!

So far today:
Woke at 5:20. Left in cot until 5:40 as not upset. (always seems to do a poo shortly after early waking. Wonder if she wakes to do it???)
Fed at 6 (4 hours from last feed)
Put her back in cot while I showered. Went in if she was sounding upset, but otherwise just left her to it.
Up after about an hour for a bit of a play then breakfast (just started BLW)
Playing for a bit then got cranky just after 9. Took her to bedroom. Quick song then into cot. Gentle crying/moaning then fell asleep after 5 mins. I tried to be unstimulating. Gentle reassurances only. Even if she wakes immediately the getting to sleep is progress!!

My morning's been-

Wake up at 5
Brought in bed for a feed and we both dozed off until 7
Put him back in cot to watch In The Night Garden until 7.30 when it finished and he screamed the house down
8 got us both dressed while feeling like I could drop down dead from exhaustion
9 Give him a jar for breakfast (we do baby led weaning most of the time but I prefer to be sure he's definitely eaten a good breakfast) and a baby biscuit
Now I'm going to sit with him while he plays with his toys until 11.30 when I'll try and get him to go for a nap. If I stay with him the whole time he'll sleep until 2. Then he won't sleep again until 8 or 9 tonight.

I got a nuby sippy cup for DD. She used to take expressed milk in a bottle but we gave up when she was screaming every time and I was expressing just for it to be poured down the sink. Haven't tried a bottle for about 3 months or more.
At first she didn't like the cup, but I think she's getting used to it. Only tried water so far. Not sure if she's actually drinking any, but she's allowing the spout in her mouth which is something.
I've been drinking out of bottles in front of her all the time to try and get her interested. (not baby bottles!)

My morning:

7am: baby wake up and quick feed (feeds loads during night so never very hungry come morning little bugger , change nappy and go into DS2 and get him dressed for preschool.
7.30am: shower for me while they watch tv/play in jumperoo
8am: dress baby
8.45am: feed again
9am: settled to sleep in travel cot quite well
9.25: woke up with noise of getting DS2 into car for preschool
9.30: drop DS2 off
9.50: back home feed yet again and put back in travel cot... Moans for 5 mins while I potter in kitchen so I go in and resettle with dummy
10.32: still asleep = happy mummy!!!!!!

Still bloody knackered tho!!!!!!

Hi can I join? DS is younger - nearly 4 months - but still closer in age than a lot of other sleep-deprived threads! Very similar experiences about mainly feeding to sleep, can't be easily moved once asleep for naps, don't remember him EVER falling asleep if put down awake. It seems to have got a lot worse in the last 3 weeks with him waking every 2 hours through the night and mainly demanding feeding to resettle, even though he's clearly not hungry all of those times. (it's been going on too long to be a growth spurt!)

My sympathies with all of you who're really struggling. I hope it improves and you get some respite. I am very fortunate that DH works part-time and often has DS in the morning so I can go back to bed.

michelle I would do whatever it takes for you to get a few more zzzs, if that means putting the tv in and having DS watch the Night garden. IMO there's a big difference between plonking kids in front of the tv all day (or having it on continuously in the background) and using a programme to soothe your baby for a few minutes.

bagelmonkey I totally get what you mean about not wanting to go to groups because DC is cranky or different to the other babies! It just feels stressful sometimes, doesn't it?! Still I think it's worth getting out to preserve sanity...

Interesting about sleep improving for some of you when baby's moved to their own room. We're going to try that too, but have to get dark curtains/new changing station first.

Well DD only napped for 30mins. To be fair it was approaching nap time.
Tried to put her down for a second nap at 12:30 but she was having none of it. PU/PD for 45mins but I took her out to get her to play for a bit before her feed so she didn't go straight to feeding and think if she keeps crying I'll feed her immediately.
Anyway. Boob o'clock came and she's dropped off about 1/3 of the way through......

Hi Looby :) Welcome!

Am currently confined to the sofa! Did try and put him down but he woke up after 2 mins so had to resettle and am not risking it again as I doubt I'll get him to sleep a third time!!!!

Got to pick DS2 up in 15 mins though so will have to wake him then. If I have any more DC I'm going for a 5 year age gap!!!!!

How long has he been asleep for weakestlink?

Tried to put DD down awake after feed but not interested.
So I decided that in order to get her some kind of rest I'd boob her to sleep for a nap. She's been asleep for 20 mins.
Even if I only managed one non-boob nap today, at least it's progress????

I can't believe I still want another one!

looby definitely - own room as soon as you can!
DH was waking DD with his noises and we were responding much to quickly to DD in the night too. I have the monitor on and hear when she starts to wake a little bit, but if I just listen she goes back to sleep 50% of the tines I reckon. Before I wouldn't rushed to try and settle her before she woke too much, but in retrospect I was probably waking her more.
I let her wake up enough to give a proper cry then go in to feed her. It's definitely improved things.

boob her to sleep - love it! Been doing that myself today! I totally know that feeling weakest link of trying to put them down, not succeeding and not wanting to try again in case they won't sleep at all...

I expect you've all tried every method going, but I find DS WILL fall asleep with swaying or bouncing if I catch him at the right stage of tiredness (ie before he's too overtired). Usually I have to put him in the sling, walk round the block, then sway and sing to him...sometimes for ages.

Then if he drops off I lower myself back onto the bed and he sleeps on my tummy and if I'm lucky, I doze a bit too or at least get to put my feet up. People in RL clearly think I'm a bit nuts to go to such lengths but you lot will understand!! Anything to get them some decent naps and us a bit of respite!

bagelmonkey pleased you're making some progress with her getting to sleep

Bagelmonkey, your story about putting your baby in her own room was word for word what was happening to us. I think that's definitely another vote for baby in own room. I don't know how your house is set up looby but we did the first week with all the bedroom doors open so it felt like we weren't too far apart.

How do you chaps feed to sleep out of interest? I lie down in bed and have him lie alongside me. I did used to have him lying in the crook of my arm but he started getting really fidgety and hard to feed- eventually worked out that it was because he didn't want my arm under him anymore. So now I have to lie slightly on my side, one boob out and the boob side arm up like I was trying to call a taxi. It's bloody uncomfortable but it works.

Yes looby totally understand. Whatever it takes is my mantra. These people who go on about this spoiling a baby rubbish must have easy babies. Some of them really won't sleep!

I actually had my worst day yet. I was up about four times between midnight and five am. Then two hours dozing in the above mentioned uncomfortable position. Waited all morning to take my son for his nap. I don't dare take him before he's crying with tiredness. I was so tired by that point that I couldn't stand up straight and was worried I was going to fall down the stairs. Anyway, baby only slept for half an hour. I took him back downstairs and threw up from exhaustion. Ended up calling my husband home from work in hysterics to say that I couldn't stay awake anymore. By the time he got home I was asleep on the sitting room floor. He had to carry me upstairs and I've only just woken up now. I feel like I've got the flu. It's just exhaustion though.

Never been so glad it's Friday in my life!

Sorry to hear your day was so bad michelleseashell
I sit in an armchair with a pillow on my lap and DD lying across, supported by the arm of the boob she's feeding off. I guess I'm lucky that if she falls asleep I can often carefully lift her up to my shoulder and carry her over to the cot and put her down and she may only open her eyes briefly from her milky coma. Doesn't always work, but when she's really overtired it usually does. If she's well rested she won't fall asleep on the boob. Or if we're out somewhere. I have to feed her in the bedroom for it to work because she gets too excited everywhere else and keeps breaking off to look around.

Hi everyone!

Sorry have been quiet DS1 has got chicken pox and DH is helpfully working all weekend so I'm on my own with the two of them!

My Mum is going to help me later tho :)

Considering getting a takeaway tonight to treat myself! DH can sort himself out hehehehe!

Hope you all have a nice weekend!

weakestlink you poor thing!
A takeaway is definitely called for!
I hope your little one doesn't catch it too. Make sure your mum brings some cake with her. Fixes everything. (apart from sleeping, unfortunately)

hi how was everyone's weekend? michelle so sorry you felt so awful on friday...have you recovered a bit? can your husband do the night feeds for a few nights so you can catch up on sleep?

weakestlink how's the chickenpox situation?

I'm reading "the no-cry sleep solution" at the mo which has some good ideas about gently coaxing babies off feed-to-sleep, although I haven't actually tried them out yet. Anyone else read/tried that? It seems to me that DS's problem isn't so much feeding to sleep as waking too easily and often...then the most soothing way for him to get back to sleep is the boob. Having said that he is sometimes popping off the boob asleep then rooting for it again 10 mins later to keep him asleep which I'm not happy about!

We've dug out some larger cotton sheets and started swaddling since Friday and he's slept 4 hours straight for the first sleep (waking every 1-2 hours after that though). so at least theoretically we can get a decent chunk of sleep, although i actually woke hourly last night cos it's so ingrained!! DH found me rooting through the duvet looking for the baby (who was in his moses basket)...one of my sleep deprivation tricks!!

It's like we've got the same baby looby! I think the rooting thing is because the baby knows boob is there and goes hunting for it. My baby has a sensor for boob and if I bring him in bed with me he will spend the whole time attached to me and even wriggle his way over to me IN HIS SLEEP! If I get out of the bed or he's in his cot, he stays still!

I'm much better now. Husband has been doing night feeds for the last three or four nights. I'm just so grateful that my son finally took a bottle because the pressure of him wanting to hang off my boobs day and night was driving me nutty! Again though same thing with you looby, I automatically wake up in the night every few hours. Mum radar!

Loobylou33 I've just bought NCSS too!
We did the baby whisperer PU/PD and it worked for a while, but I just don't have the heart or energy to go through it all again. When I've tried it since she seems to cry more than before. And she never used to just stop crying and laugh when I was putting her to bed! A gentler approach is what would suit me better and I've pretty much reverted back to feeding to sleep always.
I've definitely noticed that the later in the day she has a nap, the better it is for her nighttime.
I decided to take more of a whatever approach to the naps and I've been feeling less tired as a result. If she won't nap I leave her in the cot as long as she's happy then we do something else. Then when she's really tired in the afternoon she falls asleep feeding and I transfer her to her cot for a nap.
Going to read the NCSS then see how we do. But I'm already feeling more positive.
michelleseashell it must be great to have someone else able to do a night feed, even if only at wkends it help to recharge you.

Hello All

This is the first time I have posted on Mumsnet and I cannot tell you how much solace I have taken from hearing your stories. My daughter is 7.5 months and has never even vaguely slept through - friends and family thought I was joking when I said that I didnt think that I had had more than a three hour stretch of sleep during her entire lifetime and that often it was less than this particularly if my 3year old son (who is dreaming) decided to wake up (why do they never coordinate their wake ups?)
Last night I resorted at great expense to a night nanny in the hope that I woudl get some respite. Managed to get DD asleep in her cot (fed to sleep in the end) by 6.50pm. DD wideawake 7.25pm until 11pm (when I fed her back to sleep in bed with me then put her in cot)- Night Nanny (highly experienced 25 years in the business etc etc) had managed to placate her in this time - after an hour of crying - but when putting her down in the cot DD woke up and the whole process started again and then again.
DD woke up at 1.40 with an escalating cry- i had ear plugs and ignored it but after 40 mins had to go and help (DD refused to take ebm or to settle ). DS then woke at 4.30 shouting which in turn woke DD. Fed DD while placating DS. At 5.20 took DD into bed with me and fed to sleep. Up at 7 and woke DD (in order to get her sleep with me when DS gone to nursery). Have had a comatose sleep this mmorning but DD is firing on all cylinders. The worst bit is everyone tells me what a happy baby she is but it is nearly killing me

This unfortunately is not an unusual night -and it has been going on for months.

Night Nanny has told me that because of the type of crying (actually screaming) that things are not going to change in the three nights that I had booked her for (ie very very unlikely that I will get any stretch of sleep) and that if I had hoped this to be the outcome that I might be better saving my money- she was a very sensible lovely individual but this was not th enews I wanted to hear! I am now trying to decide whether to get her to come tonight (as friends have said you need three nights to get a pattern) as it means at the very least someone is holding the baby while I have a bath but its not really giving me a break. Has anyone been in the same situation?

geckogirl welcome!
I'm so sorry you're having so much trouble. I have no idea what to say. I've found that the thing that helps my DD sleep better at night is to nap as late as possible in the afternoon. By whatever means. I've been feeding her to sleep for all her naps lately, (although she used to go down ok.)
Not sure how your one naps in the daytime?
My mum tells me I was an awful sleeper too.
If nothing else we can be here to listen and try ideas out.
I've had a flick through the NCSS and feeling optimistic. Have you read any of it???

So sorry to hear your story gecko girl. For what it's worth, I just want to say well done for surviving this long. I only made it to seven months with one baby and a helpful husband before I had a mini breakdown.

I don't know how anyone copes on their own at all. I'm a mess.

Could you get any sleep in the day gecko girl? Is there a nursery or a childminder near you that could take your daughter for a random day so you could catch up? Maybe that would be more restful than a night nanny, since she'd be happy playing and you wouldn't have to worry. My husband couldn't take my son in the night very easily for such a long time. He would scream and scream for me and even with earplugs I could sense it.

hi fellow bleary-eyed mums... I've felt REALLY tired today (praps too much time on t'internet yesterday has made my eyes sore!)
DS's longest spell last night was 2 hours, wohoo... NOT! We brought him into bed about 2am and spent a good deal of the night holding his arms so he didn't hit himself awake.

Right now he's boobing away...has been sleeping while sucking for the last 2.5 hours. I'm so tired I'd rather sit here and let him do that than have to do anything more demanding.

Interestingly this morning, I was trying to get him to nap (he slept thru one feed but clearly needed more sleep) so I slung and swayed to no avail...then a friend was going to the park so I binned trying for a nap and went, put him in the sling again and he fell asleep while I was chatting to her (with the obligatory swaying of course!) She said perhaps it was because I'd relaxed and wasn't in "make baby fall asleep" mode. Of course that's not something you can replicated when you're desperate for them to sleep but did strike me that not trying so hard might actually help sometimes!

gecko you poor thing, what a 'mare...I suppose it depends whether the night nanny was entirely to give you a break or also to try and train your DD into better sleeping? If it was the latter it might be worth keeping her on...if just for some respite then sounds like it's not really helping

bagel I felt positive after reading NCSS too! But do you think DS is too young at 16 weeks to even try the gradual retreat? He's almost never fallen asleep by himself so I think it's going to be hard work...DH says we shouldn't try to change things this young/lots of babies wake often at this age blah blah.. but I reckon the sooner we get him into good habits, the better.

What do you all reckon?! Sorry for the mini-essay