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Original poster

Could someone nice please give me some advice on 11wo's sleep that doesn't involve the phrases 'stop cosleeping', 'express' and 'wean early'?

54 replies

BellaBearisWideAwake · 20/06/2011 10:18

Hi DS2 is doing really well. A typical night involves a longish sleep from 9 o'clock till maybe 2am, although a few times till 4am. He is EBF and we cosleep, and although he has a bedside cot, he is actually cuddled up to my side. When I don't do this he hasn't slept more than 3 or 4 hours.

After that, sleep is a disaster: he feeds and sleeps in bursts of not more than 90 mins, mostly less, much less. I think he is full of windy as he is so wriggley. He is then up for the day at about 6ish. Which means I am not really sleeping past 4ish. Luckily DH is getting up with DS1 if he wakes or wakes early.

I went to the weigh clinic today and accidentally ended up crying at the HV, as I am so tired. She suggested, PND (No. HAd it horribly with DS1. I know today I was just tired and weepy when given attention. It is categorically NOT PND), giving him a bottle (I am not expressing. I hate hate hate expressing, and anyway, I am fine with feeding my baby myself), leaving him in his cot (he sleeps much worse when not next to me, and therefore I do also) and "in five weeks time, you could wean him!" Hmm. So not really in tune with my parenting style.

However, DS1 had reflux and was one of the WOrld's WOrst Sleepers, so I am not that sympathetic to myself as it is so so so much better this time round.

But I am still exhausted.

Any advice for improving sleep between 2am and 6am?

OP posts:
mischiefmummy · 20/06/2011 11:26

Congratulations to you, you're doing really well EBF, co-sleeping (the most natural way to sleep with a little babe. and following your instincts. How about a triangular cushion (like the BF ones) only pop it behind you and use it to get comfy, supporting your elbows and head? I found like this I could feed and sleep and when babe needs winding just lying them on my chest and rubbing their back as I dozed. Then they are sleeping at a bit of an angle too which often helps with wind and lying on their tummies which can help too. You won't smother him as EBF mothers who plan their co-sleeping just instinctively don't (mother nature is great!), also he will be settled by the sound of your heartbeat. Also try sleeping naked from the waist up and use a muslin to catch any leaking milk. Best of luck......you're doing great!

Original poster
BellaBearisWideAwake · 20/06/2011 11:37

Thanks for advice everyone

OP posts:
Original poster
BellaBearisWideAwake · 20/06/2011 11:46

Also, HV asked about his feeding pattern in the day and I'm not sure he has one! He just feeds after waking from a nap and has four or five or so naps a day. Is this normal? She said I should be stretching him to af least three hours between feeds night and day but what am I meant to do if he is hungry and wants to feed earlier? I honestly don't know how long he goes at the mo I just feed him when he looks like a goldfish or when he cries if it isn't tiredness. And sometimes when it is.

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Rosemallow · 20/06/2011 11:50

Are you me?! :)
DD (2.3) had reflux and DS was really grunty/windy/squirmy - I felt like I wasn't entitled to moan about DS as he was so much easier than DD but I was exhausted!
We BF/co sleep (have a bedside cot) and he has (finally) grown out of the windiness at around 12-14 weeks (he's 19 weeks now).
Whoever suggested the dummy is spot on - I really didn't want to give him one (DD didn't have one) but I've found he will happily settle, snuggled up with me (in sideways BFing position but without my arm in ridiculous position!) when he has it. He has also learned to settle without it now and sometimes just drops off. I also find that he sleeps better on his side - luckily he isn't a 'rolly' baby!

Meita · 20/06/2011 11:52

Every time I tried to get DS to do things at a certain time/in a certain rhythm/in a routine, it failed spectacularly. I'd very much advise (against your HV) to go with the flow. That then means that when you didn't sleep much at night, you don't expect too much of yourself at day either.
it's tough, I feel for you. But you'll get through it (just to be faced with the next challenge, I'm sure Wink)

msbuggywinkle · 20/06/2011 11:53

I wouldn't try to stretch the times between feeds, feeding on cue is best for you and him.

As for dealing with nights, here's what I did (am also a co-sleeper, bfer). I went to bed when DD1 was ready to sleep. DP gets her to sleep, I doze and feed DD2. DP does any jobs he needs to do downstairs, then comes to bed bringing me a cuppa. He wakes me up for a chat and some TV then I go back to sleep again.

Doing things this way meant I didn't mind so much if DD2 was awake lots in the early hours as I'd already had an extra hour or so in bed while DP did other stuff. I still get a chat and time to watch TV with DP too!

Adair · 20/06/2011 11:54

Ha, ha, i also look blankly when anyone says about feeding pattern 'er... lots!' (though he does now seem to have a sleep pattern- it coincides with the school run of course...)

Rosemallow · 20/06/2011 11:54

Sounds like you're doing a great job - don't worry about what HV says - I wouldn't have a clue how often DS feeds, I just feed him when he needs it! Sometimes he cluster feeds, sometimes he goes ages without feeding but IMO feeding him when he's hungry is surely the best way?!

Triphop · 20/06/2011 12:08

Unfortunately the best answer, as others have already said, is 'wait'. It will eventually get better. BUT you do sound like you need some sleep now, tonight. Can you go to sleep in another room for a night while DH cosleeps with baby? Maybe you'll only get 6 hours in before your DH comes to get you for a feed, but at least it will be 6 hours of unbroken sleep - you sound like you're not sleeping as soundly while cosleeping? (That will get better, too!) You can swap nights with DH, so he'll sleep too. Hopefully at least one of you will be coherent on any given day. Smile

Original poster
BellaBearisWideAwake · 20/06/2011 12:12

That isnot a bad idea. It would give me a chance to see if Jonah could sleep well without me.

OP posts:
Original poster
BellaBearisWideAwake · 20/06/2011 12:13

I mean DS2. Oh crap, I'm too tired!

OP posts:
Original poster
BellaBearisWideAwake · 20/06/2011 12:18

Also, whencan I put him on his front? He sleeps on his front in the day in the same room as me and it does seem to help his sleep.

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Triphop · 20/06/2011 12:19

It worked (temporarily) for me! But promise yourself you will ignore all noise, grizzling, crying (from DH or kids), pleading, etc, until the baby truly needs a feed. Even after one night of decent sleep, you'll be nice, coherent mummy again.

Triphop · 20/06/2011 12:21

My youngest slept on her front from about 3 months, as she could turn over. I kept trying to flip her back over, and even waved the HV's 'back to sleep' pamphlets at her, but to no avail.

Original poster
BellaBearisWideAwake · 20/06/2011 12:25

He sleeps on his side now. He can get on his front from his side if I'm not in the way but I suspect that is gravity rather than muscle control.

OP posts:
RitaMorgan · 20/06/2011 12:38

I wouldn't put a baby on their front, but I wouldn't flip them back over if they rolled from back to front.

I don't understand the HV's logic about stretching feeds - if you feed him less in the day he'll just need to feed more at night and you won't get the long stretch you do now.

MistyB · 20/06/2011 12:44

Have you worked out what time you need to have your sleep at? For me, as long as I got a couple of hours at the begining of the night and a couple at the end, say from 5 till 7, I was OK. For some people, the slot between 2 and 4 is the key one. Hopefully your DH has his "can cope" time at the time you need your sleep. It does normally work out that way.

Could you take yourself off to another room for two hours of completely undisturbed sleep even every second night. Sleeping without listening is worth double at least!! - it could do you the world of good. If your DS is unsettled at this time anyway, it won't matter that you are not there and have fed before you leave. It may also help your DS to learn to sleep with your DP too.

Good luck - it will get better and he is already doing 5 hour stretches!! Well done him!!

JiltedJohnsJulie · 20/06/2011 12:44

Haven't got time to read the whole thread so sorry if I'm repeating. Have you read Fussy Baby by Dr Sears or tried Dr Karp shushing technique? Both of these seem to be in keeping with your parenting style.

Agree with Rita too, feeding less in the day may make him feed more in the night, not less. Have you tried feeding him more in the day instead?

Can't believe your HV suggested early weaning either.

Original poster
BellaBearisWideAwake · 20/06/2011 12:49

Thanks for great advice. I love this website.

Notcweaning till six months

Think he was too tired at last feed last night and didn't take enough

OP posts:
mrsgboring · 20/06/2011 12:55

Every time you feel like going to see the Health Visitor, eat a cake and put your feet up instead.

I've been experiencing what you describe for um quite a long time with both DSs and am now quite happy with my lot (DS1 is a pretty good sleeper now and DS2 improving at 2yo!)

The way I've survived is:

  1. be kind to yourself
  2. don't listen to any busybody advice
  3. grit teeth and get through it, trusting it will all get better
  4. eventually figured out how to feed lying down and either sleep or read. TBH I pretty much never do a feed now without a book on hand (and cup of tea too if sitting up) and it really helps reduce my stress levels (both mine poor gainers who didn't sleep. It Must Have Been Something I Was Doing WRONG according to even the grooviest and most supportive of HCPs)

I

Original poster
BellaBearisWideAwake · 20/06/2011 13:03

Ha! Yes. I just wanted to know how much he weighed!

OP posts:
Babieseverywhere · 20/06/2011 13:05

OP, You have been given some great advice on this thread. :)

I like the PP suggestions to feed lying down and to try not to wind if possible at night to increase your rest and see if your little one needs winding at night or not.

I am confused as to why increasing length of time between feeds will give you more sleep at night. Did your HV explain her reasoning ?

I would go for the opposite tack. Could you offer more feeds during the day and make sure to keep offering each breast in turn until the baby refuses. You could even try some breast compressions, if you would like to. This would ensure DS2 was topped up as much as possible during the day/evening and hopefully give you the longest possible stretch of sleep at night.

I am going to re-mention the option of nursing whilst lying down, as it is ace and once you are confident in your position and babies position, you can go back to sleep and leave baby nursing as long as he likes....I try to do this for naps during the day, if older children will let me (i.e. if they are out, playing quietly or napping themselves)

CrapolaDeVille · 20/06/2011 13:06

Dummies are the reason 3/5 of my children are still here ShockWink.

littlelapin · 20/06/2011 14:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bessie26 · 20/06/2011 15:04

Do you keep him upright after feeding? I used to have to keep DD1 upright for about 10 mins after her feed or she wouldn't settle (silent reflux??)

Also might be worth getting your latch checked as that can cause them to take in air. I have to put the light on for night feeds so I can check DD2 (8wks) is properly attached or she gets all gassy & screamy later on.

Are you getting chance to nap during the day? Getting out for some fresh air? Eating plenty of chocolate? I need all these things in order to stay sane when I'm up all night.