Come sail with me with you're in the same boat...

[IMissSleep]

SLEEP! Not getting enough at night or naps during the day. Doesn't matter what age your DC are.

Share your stories here, solutions or just have a vent!

I'll start...

My DS is 8.5 months. Went through a good stage with night time routine, still has really - self settles to sleep no problem. Feeds at 11pm. But will wake between 2am - 5am maybe 3 times. So I'm up and down a lot during the night! He has slept through maybe a handful of times. Still good with naps, 2x 2hr.

Still would love a full night though!

Not expecting another good night as we have just had to lower the cot as DD can now pull from lying to sitting and then sitting to standing. I imagine this small change will send everything haywire! Camperfan - I have same issue - not taking enough at day feeds...I think that is why she slept through yesterday as she had a decent evening feed for once!

the Bach sleep is a flower remedy that is alcohol free ( unlike the standard Bach rescue remedy which smells like brandy!) and can be used on "all the family" WE got the spray one - two sprays on the tongue - but you can get drops that you put in water, doesnt taste of much. it contains rock rose, impatiens, clematis, star of bethlehem, cherry plum and the maion thing, white chestnut, which is supposed to help remove unwanted repetitive thoughts. Got it in Boots as part of 3 for 2, around £8.

I will report back!

Thanks Olivo, I'll have a look for some. CamperFan and Zimm, my DS used to be like that, though has fortunately improved of late. But a couple of months ago day time feeds where just a sucesion of odd sucks surrounded by head whipping round to look at what was going on, hands grabbing out at anything within (or not within!) reach etc. etc. Made it really hard to feel confident we could cut down night feeds. Only advice I came across was trying to give them stuff to entertainthem whilst feeding in the day, like wearing a scarf they could pull, or trying to remove stimuli when feeding in the day (though that's not exactly easy). Didn't find either very helpful to be honnest.

Is it called rescue remedy night? Or does it have the White label? Sorry to ask so many questions!
Hope it works! I look forward to your report back.
DS is still awake, Argh!

Yes, it's called Bach Rescue Night (Spray), yellow box with blue 20ml spray. DH has the drops, similar packaging. Dont think there is a white label but its in DD's room and I darent go in! Has a blue lid!

well, i had to feed him at 10pm, 1pm and 5am, so THREE feeds last night. I tried each time to settle him without, but he wasn't having any of it and seeing as he had just had his jabs I thought it wouldn't be the night to start getting stricter! Also, he really wanted to sleep with my nipple in his mouth , so it took longer to get back to sleep than normal. Am thoroughly fed up with it, but I don't know how to break the cycle, esp with this biting/distraction business during the day. No biting in the night of course, just proper feeding, grr! Zimm how did the night go with the standing??? I can only imagine what my DS2 will be like then! Flowery, I already only feed him in my bedroom - he won't actually feed anywhere else, so it would be difficult to remove any further stimuli! Perhaps my DS2 will start dropping feeds himself as yours has done .

CamperFan, I hope so. To be fair mine has been a combination him hinting at droping them and me strongly encouraging it. Pushing feeds later usually was pretty hard for a few nights at each change. But we are slowly getting there.

An average night last night:

Cot 7.05, alseep 7.30 (though once I'd managed to stop him getting up and crawling round I stood with my back against the cot so wasn't patting him, suppose I'm starting gradual withdrawl of sorts)

Woke at 9, 10, 12, 3.30 (DH did that one, yay!) 5.00 and up for the day at 7.15.

I fed him at after the 5am waking though, couldn't get him to settle down and he was crying. Mind you, might as well have not bothered as it didn't get him back to sleep either. At least after that he wasn't crying though so we put him in bed with us and eventually he went back off. not sure when, think I might have dozed off first! He's on a stubbon streak with eating the last couple of days though, he's barly eaten anything appart from the odd little bit of bread stick or rice cake, and that makes it so hard to stick to not feeding in the night because what if he's genuinely hungry. I wouldn't like trying to sleep if I was hungry.

CamperFan, have you tried one of those feeding aprons? I borrowed one when DS was so distractable at day time feeds to see if it helped, and to be fair, I think it made it worse! But someone I know said it revolutionised her DS feeding in the day as she couldn't see anything when under it. My DS just had fun trying to escape! Might be worth a try if you can borrow one or get a cheap one to try?

Thanks olivo I will go to boots to investigate.
How was last night?
DS went to sleep at 10!
Managed to pat him off at half 3
Had to cuddle him at half 4
Brought him in with us at half 5- I need sleep damn it!

Ahoy shipmates,

Not a great night last night - DD unsettled by lowered cot so about 5 wake-ups, although we did get 2 chunks of sleep from 10 -22 and then 2-5.30 I am human today. She just screamed herself silly going down for her nap (I do shush-pat) so I had to feed her to sleep which I was doing well at breaking! GRRRR.

zimm, i just had to do the same with DS2 as well for his nap!! Not to sleep, but had to get him back out of cot. Argh!!! But he had scratched his forehead with his little claws and there was blood all over it , so I had to feed him to settle him.

I've not feed DS to sleep for a morning nap for a very long time, but I still have to push him in the pram! Those of you getting DCs to sleep in the cot in the day are very brave, and braver then me! Actually I can usually give him a push whilst I sing a song then leave him to it for morning naps now. Afternoon naps require pushing until thoroughly asleep. Occasionally he ends up feeding to sleep in the afternoon but that's usually if I just mix up tiredness and hunger, or if they happen to coincide. I go back to work in 6 weeks, I wonder what the childminder will make of pushing him to sleep. I'm betting she doesn't do it, and he learns to not need it!

Well having thought we were making progress, tis all going to sh*t now. Back to 20 minute power naps and consequently overtiredness. It seems that if I stay in all day and make sure DD goes down for naps in her exact sleep window, everything is fine. If we go out anywhere, invariably she won't nap properly in her pram and the overtiredness cycle starts. So basically I'm not allowed to have a life at all! On my knees with exhaustion from 2-hourly wakeups the past 2 nights and me unable to sleep between them anyway. Will just have to become a nap-obsessed hermit :(

flowery naps tend to not be so bad, although the timing as you say, sometimes leads to feeding to sleep. But he often has 2 naps of an hour each in his cot unless we're out and about. Hopefully the childminder will crack it for you - perhaps she has some clever techniques up her sleeve!

dreema, poor you, you must be thoroughly fed up. How old is she? My DS1 dropped his morning nap at 10 months and after that the lunch time nap became more predictable and much longer...

evening all. I could do with a bit of napping advice. I've decided to prioritise naps in the day (yes, even over monkey music which she LOVES). I can still only get DD to nap in pram whilst moving but sometimes I can stop walking for a bit. In the morning we're usually getting an hour now but in the afternoon she sleeps for 30 mins, wakes up for 45-50 mins and then has another 30 mins. I'd really like to be able to get her to sleep through (not least because I have to walk all that time) - or at least have longer than 30 mins in the first place. Any ideas? Very occasionally, if I can get her to sleep with me in my bed for her nap then I can feed her at the 30 min wake up and get her back to sleep for anything up to an hour and a half. But not so easy in the pram - it has to happened before she's really woken up.

I'm hoping that once she's used to these two naps at the same time, I might be able to move them to the cot because I really need to stop the walking. Am I just deluded??

Kittyburgh how old is your DD? My DS only sleeps in his pram in the day (never been brave enough to try moving him to the cot!). At first we had to be on the move and outside the whole time. We've now reached a point where I can push him (inside) briefly, for the duration of twinkle twinkle, then leave him awake and he will go off. Can you try pushing her inside as a start, dull I know, but I found I could read a book with one hand and push with the other, or have the TV on with ear phones whilst pushing! Once my DS was used to going to sleep inside I stoped pushing once he was asleep. The time this took got less and less and then I tried stopping when he was nearly asleep so he did the last bit on his own, and then gradulay pushed less so I was leaving him more awake. Be warned though, my DS will now not go to sleep outside!!

I had another night of failing to stick to my resolve of not feeding in the night. Grr. We went:
Cot 7.00, asleep 7.15
Woke 8, 9 (heard him on the monitor but he self settleed, suppose that's something), 10, 12, 2.15, 3.30. Got him nearly asleep a couple of times then at first but he would wake himself up and start crying again just as he was about to nod off. As time went on he got harder to settle until he was just screeming for about 45 minutes no matter what I did. We tried calpol, water, the bach flower stuff, more water, singing, cuddles, patting, shushing, putting in bed with us. None of it had any afffect. He was never asking for milk (head buts my chest to do that, subtle ) but in the end I fed him as could not see anything else to do - by this point he was starting to wheeze. He ended up having both sides at about 4.15. Didn't actually feed to sleep (suppose I should be pleased about that, but I just wanted him asleep) but did then go to sleep quietly in our bed at about 4.45.
Up for the day 7.15.

I feel RUBBISH :(

Sorry for my long and rambling rant. I know I've chosen the 'soft' way to try and improve sleep and we could try something more extreem like CC if we wanted, and we don't, but I really would like a decent nights' sleep now, pleeeaaaasssseee.

Aww floweryboots that sucks. Big cup of coffee to you.

kitty and Dreemgurl - I've had both your napping your issues, until about 6-8 weeks ago DD would only take 30 min power naps in pram. Because of this I lost 8 pounds! (Heavy buggy in hilly area!) I am now pleased to report DD will nap in her cot for up to 1 hour and 20 mins! This is what we did:

1. Establish nap schedule, so figure out when your DC needs to nap by watching tired signs. A big tip from me is that first nap usually needs to be quite soon after waking so 9ish. Lots of kids this age do the 2-3-4, so up for 2 hours, nap, 3 hours, nap and then longest awake period before bed, DD fits this quite well. So you can establish the schedule using the pram and don't stress too much about length of naps.

2. Get DC napping in cot. We did using the baby whispers 4 S ritual - you can google this. We changed the 'swaddle' for gro-bag though as DD too old for swaddling. In terms of the actual soothing she would be put into the cot awake and we would shush-pat her to sleep, only picking her up if she got really cross. It sucks as it does mean your DC will cry, but it is not CC or CIO as you are there the whole soothing and reassuring them, you are just not giving them a prop like the boob or rocking/motion.

3. When DC falls asleep stay with them. Just sit somewhere out of sight with smartphone/laptop so you have something to do in the dark. bugger the housework.

4. Now the tricky part - you need to get them through the first sleep cycle and into the next sleep cycle - this is what will lengthen the naps. So the very second they stir, grizzle or rub their eyes as if waking re-start teh shush pat and do your very best to get them back to sleep. Once they are asleep you can leave the room and drink tea.

Now I've been all of the above for 6 weeks now. And on a good day DD will self-settle for a nap (rolls about in her cot and mutters to herself before dropping off) and barely stir between sleep cyles - I just give the tinnest pat/shush and then wait 5 minutes and leave the room. very soon I will stop staying with her and I think she has more or less learned to transition through sleep cycles.

The big bonus of all of the above is that skills you teach during the day will help them self-settle and cycle transition at night. Cycle transitioning is easier at night as the biological drive to stay asleep in stronger but sometimes they still need help - hence they wake!

HTH.

Flowery that sounds totally rubbish! Have a

We had a better night - prob cos DD was just sooo exhausted from rubbish naps yesterday. Went from 6.30 till 4.30 which, yes, sounds amazing and would have been fantastic if only I'd managed to sleep as well :( Grrrr. Trying to figure out what else I did right so I can recreate it!

Kitty we too have a moving sleeper. The number of times I've walked to someone's house and had to stand outside their back door pushing the buggy back and forth while DD slept. Very occasionally she'll continue sleeping once I've stopped but the timing has to be
exact! With regards moving to cot naps, it just took a lot of patience (and wine and chocolate!) and a consistent routine. As I said earlier I've totally made a rod for my own back as nap routine now includes a bf so no one else can put her down for a nap. sigh

How was everyone else's night?

Sorry, X-post Zimm :)

Zimm that is very helpful. I have been trying to establish DD's napping schedule but have been very confused due to different lengths of time between naps. the 2-3-4 idea is very useful to know - I thought she was just completely random.

Have also lost a lot of weight although a bit frightened what will happen when I stop the walking as I have also developed a severe cake habit.

Floweryboots, I am trying pram inside today as last resort but ordinarily, more hassle than its generally worth - I live on the third floor of an old building with no lift. Just 63 spiral steps. We are trying to sell!

Maybe I should get DS napping in his cot. I've tackled night time issues (with very minimal actual improvement!) first as that was what was getting me down. A few pushes in the pram inside for a nap was no big deal. But do you think it might help the night time issues if he were used to self settling in the cot in the day? I was thinking I'd tackle that after the night is sorted as I was worried if I disrupted our fairly pradicatable day time nap routine I might end up with a very opver tired or out of sync little boy which would make bed time and night time even harder. And I guess I sort of thought napping in the pram was handy as I could go out mid nap if I wanted, move him out of a room I wanted to use/clean etc. and it made an obvious difference between naps and bed time. Maybe that's all wrong (and although I used to be able to take him out mid nap, I no longer can as he just waakes up when we get outside). Oh dear. Just feeling weary today. And need to set off for swimming in a few minutes.

Flowery I guess there are pros and cons to both. As I said earlier I feel tied to the house as she now naps better in cot than pram, but it is nice to put my feet up and eat cake get some housework etc done. A sleep consultant we saw a few weeks ago said that once night time sleep was better, then daytime sleep would follow, thus ensuring even better night sleep. Personally our DD needs at least 2 hours in the day (taken any which way at any time, usually a few short naps) or she gets overtired and her night sleep is rubbish. Having said that there have been occasions where she's had rubbish naps and then had an ok night! So nothing helpful there really, just the ramblings of a sleep deprived mother.

I think you've got to go with what works. If you're happy and he's happy then why change anything? If it stops working then you have to think again, although I take your point about self settling in the cot. Does he take a dummy? I just remembered when we first started tackling daytime cot naps I gave the dummy back (had previously taken away at 5 months) and it helped. Doesn't take it now.

Napping disaster. I tried pushing dd in the pram inside when I saw the old eye rub. It was more just back and forward than walking round (flat pretty small). I tried for an hour and a half. She did not sleep. I missed her window. She's still awake - its now 5 hours since she got up. I feel so bad, all because I wanted a break from walking. I should have done as I did yesterday and put my jeans over my pjs and gone out but I couldn't face getting the pram back down the stairs.

it has to be a rubbish nap, ok night day because the last two nights have been beyond awful and I am genuinely at breaking point.

Oh Kitty I really feel for you, you poor thing. It's so stressful, isn't it, knowing they need sleep and they won't take it. I have been there, you think you've timed it perfectly with the eye rub / tired sign and somehow it just doesn't go to plan.

Advice today would be maybe try an early bedtime so she can catch up on sleep. Hope you manage to get her off for a nap soon

thanks dreema, its so good to have people to empathise. I had to go for a chat with a mortgage advisor today, I was so tired all I could do was sit there and nod my head like one of those dogs on the back shelf of cars. I hope I haven't signed us up for financial ruin!

On the plus side, DD did eventually nap in the pram in the flat - whilst standing still! It was only 40 minutes but that's ten mins longer than normal and I got my lunch in peace. She also napped for 40 mins in the car too without too much fuss. But an hour and 20 mins is not great as a total for the day. I hope we're not in for more shenanigans later... Still, DH is back in 30 minutes so I'm making up the formula - no excuses for not taking over!

Zimm I'm hoping I can find some of your dedication to the cause.

Wishing everyone a good night.