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Original poster

Can't fucking stand it, advice gratefully received.

47 replies

MrsMiyagi · 09/03/2011 05:48

It's 5.35, I've been awake since 3. I can't stand any more loss of sleep, I'm so angry with DD through tiredness and frustration. I know compared to some babies she sleeps well, but I'm struggling.

She's 8.5 months.

She goes to bed at 7, and self settles in her cot. We dreamfeed her at 11, not sure if we should try to change this.

She then sleeps to anywhere between 5 and 6. I've been going to bed earlier to allow for her early mornings, but sometimes, like today, she wakes a lot earlier and won't re-settle. This morning (middle of the fucking night more like) she screamed for an hour (with us going in every few mins) before I gave up and we're now up. She's now beside me on the sofa rubbing her eyes and looking knackered.

I offered her milk when I first went in and she took about half a feed.

I hate this. She woke me squeaking in her sleep at 3, but my sleep is so messed up I couldn't go back to sleep. She's been awake since 4.

She won't co-sleep, so that isn't an option.

OP posts:
poshme · 09/03/2011 06:21

I'm sorry I have no advice- but wanted to answer your post and say I feel your pain. Someone will be along soon who can be more helpful- all I can say is my parenting mantra is " it WILL pass" . Can you sleep at all during the day?

poshme · 09/03/2011 06:21

I'm sorry I have no advice- but wanted to answer your post and say I feel your pain. Someone will be along soon who can be more helpful- all I can say is my parenting mantra is " it WILL pass" . Can you sleep at all during the day?

devilsadvocaat · 09/03/2011 06:22

can you let her self settle again after offering a drink? she sounds too tired to be up at that time. i think going in every few mins is too often. put her down, wait 5, 10, 15, 20 mins before going in and stick to it.

you could try losing dream feed, it doesn't sound like she is hungry when waking. fwiw, i still df ine around this age but not past 10 months.

devilsadvocaat · 09/03/2011 06:23

ps - waking 5-6am is normal here too

Bubbaluv · 09/03/2011 06:39

At that age there's really no reason she shouldn't be able to go 7-7 or thereabouts(7-5 at least). Super-active afternoons can be really helpful - run her ragged after her nap.
How long do you leave her before you go into her room?
I would try only offering water too. It's so easy to accidentally train them to wake up for a nice morning feed.
Could she be teething?
I sooo feel your pain though - I remember wanting to shout at them I was so exhausted - really helpful! Blush

Original poster
MrsMiyagi · 09/03/2011 06:41

Hi there, have calmed down a bit now. Thank you for your replies, it makes a difference to know that (of course) it's not just me.

Yes, did the 5, 10, 15 minute thing, I wrote every few mins because it was quicker and my post was already long! This is the first time we've tried it this deep into the night, she went through a phase of not settling when first going into bed, and that sorted it out v quickly, she never cried beyond 5 mins. Completely different story this morning, her screaming was escalating and I was stressing about the neighbours.

She's definitely too tired to be up. (Not the only one Angry)

Sleeping during the day isn't really happening, her day time naps aren't long enough for me to get to sleep, she seems to do 1 x 30 mins and 2 x 45 mins if we're lucky.

We did experiment with not giving her a dream feed the other night, and she woke at 3, then ate a full bottle. Could this be habit?

OP posts:
devilsadvocaat · 09/03/2011 06:46

i would maybe think about pushing her first morning nap forwards a bit, just 15 mins or so every few days, to try to merge so that you end up with one morning and one afternoon nap.

limpingbint · 09/03/2011 07:01

I think what you are describing is entirely normal to be honest. Sorry nothing helpful to add but waking at and 6 is fairly standard. I think all of mine have done this and I just take them into bed with me and catch up - personally i would try to put her to bed later - for a lot of children sleeping 12 hours at this age is an unrealistic ask so maybe you need to readjust your expectations of her and go to be earlier yourself for the early starts?

Original poster
MrsMiyagi · 09/03/2011 07:16

It depends on why she's crying as to how long we wait before we go in. Last night she was trapped on her stomach in the corner of the cot (can't turn back over yet), so I went in straight away as she starts to panic, therefore waking up more IYSWIM.

If it's the start of the night, or she inexplicably wakes, say, at 9, then we leave her to see if she'll self settle.

I don't know if she's teething. She has two, so obviously is due more! She doesn't have any of the obvious signs, but then the first teeth came through without much fuss.

So, should I try not dreamfeeding her, and then only offering water if she wakes of her own accord? Then build up in 5 minute increments if she cries? How will I know she's not hungry? Sorry if I'm being thick.

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsMiyagi · 09/03/2011 07:20

Can't take her into bed Limping, she doesn't like it. She's happy to sit on the bed with us in the morning and play, but won't lie down, kicks and cries.

If it was a regular 6 then I could cope by going to bed earlier, but 6 so easily creeps forward to 5.30 etc etc. Also, I don't want to be reinforcing the early habit by just accepting it. Am I mad?

OP posts:
Metalhead · 09/03/2011 08:42

My DD is the same age and also wakes anywhere between 5.30 and 6.30. She used to then go back to sleep for an hour or two after I fed her, but suddenly just refused to go back down. The most annoying thing with her is that she then gets tired again by 9/10am and sleeps for up to 2 hours!!

Doesn't help if she sleeps less during the day, still wakes up at the same time, and don't want to put her to bed any later in the evening. I know we shouldn't complain at 11 hours sleep on her part, but we got used to having nice lie ins up until a few weeks ago... and it is annoying when they wake you up with noises they make in their sleep and then you can't go back to sleep, I'm the same.

RitaMorgan · 09/03/2011 10:57

I would work on the day time naps actually - poor day time sleep could be disturbing her night time sleep and leading to the early wakings. A nap of less than an hour isn't really long enough.

SkilpadsMom · 09/03/2011 11:12

I'm doing CC with my DS who is 8mo. I thought he needed to eat in the night too, as I was BF him - but once he started on formula, and I could see that he wasn't interested in the bottle at all, rather wanting the cuddle, I could see that we needed to stop the feeding.

DS isn't really that keen on the bottle, so for him, the lure of iti n the night isn't great,but a cuddle is, so thats why we went the CC route.

If your DD enjoys her feeds, then her eating could be a comfort issue, rather than a nutrition thing, so when you say how will I know if she is hungry, you can be sure that she isn't in NEED of the nutrition, but she nmight just want the comfort element... so maybe need to leave the feeding all togeter? just a thought???

Poor you, I 'm so sorry that you are having such a hard time... Sad

AliMP · 09/03/2011 12:13

You have my sympathies. I can't offer advice as I am in a similar situation myself and was tempted to post a similar message!

My daughter is 8months and self settles to sleep very well between 7 -7.30pm. The odd nights she sleeps till 6.30 -7am, most other nights she will wake once-always at a different time. I feed her and she takes 7 or 8oz so I assume she is hungry, but all the advice seems to be that she shouldn't be hungry.

If I try not to feed she is up for hours screaming, if I feed she will be settled and asleep after 1/2 hour. I however take ages to get back to sleep.I go back to work next week and would love her to sleep every night! Last night she woke chatting to herself which woke me, and we where both awake for two hours, until I eventually fed her.

Sorry that turned out to be a mammoth post!

IsItMeOr · 09/03/2011 12:32

Another feeling your pain here. Two-year-old DS still sleeps poorly, I'm sorry to report, and 5-6am wakes are the norm, despite bedtime being getting on for 8pm. This 7-7 sleep business is something of a myth for many children, tbh.

As this morning is out of the norm for your DD, my first thought was "teeth?", as that seems to wake my DS early.

If you're open to controlled crying, as you've already tried it, I'd suggest you try getting Ferber's book. That had what I found some very child-focused advice about cutting out night feeds. His take is that yes, while technically a hypothetical 6mo baby should not need milk in the night, in practice we have effectively taught our children that they will get milk at certain times, and they will therefore have learned to be hungry then.

He suggests reducing the amount you offer in the bottle by a certain amount each night (I think it's 15ml), until eventually you cut it out. In theory, this helps to manage the hunger down.

The other advice that DH and I found helpful was from Sears, who said get up with them when it's early, but fine to line on the sofa and ignore them so they realise it's not fun play time.

A bit random there, so hope of some help.

Original poster
MrsMiyagi · 09/03/2011 14:45

Thanks everyone for responding, much appreciated.
Yes, her naps are short, but I don't know how to extend them. If she's in her pram it's fine, I just keep pushing, and she stays asleep. How do you keep a baby asleep in the cot?

I'll have a look at those books. Yes, we did a short burst of controlled crying, which worked miracles in terms of getting her to settle early on, but once it gets to within a couple of hours of wake up time it all goes wrong! Her annoyance just seems to waken her more.

OP posts:
RitaMorgan · 09/03/2011 14:55

I used to take ds out for a long walk every day - if we were at home he would only nap for 45 minutes, so I'd feed or rock him back to sleep. Going to bed with him or holding him worked sometimes too.

One day he suddenly started sleeping for 2 hours in his cot though.

Original poster
MrsMiyagi · 09/03/2011 15:17

Ooh Rita, I hope that day arrives here!

OP posts:
Acanthus · 09/03/2011 15:20

Is three naps too many now? Maybe she'd go longer if she only had two?

Original poster
MrsMiyagi · 09/03/2011 16:11

Assuming a 6.30 wake-up, when would you be looking to do two naps, and for how long?

OP posts:
RitaMorgan · 09/03/2011 16:57

Up at 6.30am
First nap 8.30am-10amish
Second nap 1pm-3pmish
Bed at 7

Original poster
MrsMiyagi · 09/03/2011 17:51

Will try it tomorrow. Tonight will try no dream feed, and water at the inevitable waking.

[fingers firmly crossed emoticon]

OP posts:
Bubbaluv · 09/03/2011 23:04

Is she in a sleep-bag? At about this age I found my boys started to roll around and get tangled and twisted which woke them up. I switched to multiple layers of sleep-suits and it solved the problem.
Rita is on the money re naps (it might take a few days to adjust but persevere).
Also, for the last feed before bed I used to do what I called the Fois-Gras-Hour where I gave them their normal sized feed, gave them a few mins then gave them more and more and more until they look like they'll burst. They just seemed to sleep deeper and longer with a super-full tummy.

Original poster
MrsMiyagi · 10/03/2011 06:43

Well, last night went as follows:

Later to bed at 7.30
No dream feed
Woke at 12.30, changed nappy and gave reduced size milk
Up for the day at 5.30, we ignored her singing and chattering til 5.50 then gave up.

I forgot to go to an important appointment last night because by the time she went to bed I was so knackered I couldn't think straight. On the plus side, I went to bed at 9, so feel much better today. Smile

Will attempt to lengthen her naps today. I know that rocking her back to sleep isn't going to work so it looks like a very long walk with the pram is looming.

Thanks again for the tips.

OP posts:
vez123 · 10/03/2011 09:11

I would keep the morning nap rather short, between 20 and 30 minutes at about 9:30. Then aim for a long lunchtime nap of up to 2 hours (hard i know). At that age too much napping in the morning can cause early waking.
My DS is 9.5 months old and i am trying to cut out the morning nap alltogether as he has developed a tendency to wake early or in the middle of the night wide awake. It may take a week or so to adjust.
HTH