How do I get 13 month old DD to sleep a little later?

[Blatherskite]

DS was an amazing sleeper, 12 hours a night from about 10 weeks, even occasional lie ins! I always said that we were due a nightmare sleeper next time and I was totally right.

In comparison, DD has always been difficult sleep-wise - Not as bad as some I've heard about on here but she was a year old before we got a full nights sleep. We had got to the point where we were getting 7pm till 6am fairly regularly but recently, wake ups have been getting earlier and ealier again and now we're back to 5-5.30am and DH and I are so tired, we're ripping each others heads off.

We've tried moving bedtimes and I'm convinced now that we've got it as late as we can manage without her being over tired (bath at 6.30, bed at 7pm) Naps have always been bad but we've finally managed to get 2 decent sleeps in a day (about an hour from 9.30am and another 30-40 mins from 1.30pm most days. She does regularly refuse an afternoon nap though) She's close to walking so she's having plenty of physical activity. Food was good but recently, she's been refusing meals, especially dinner. I've been so desperate to get her to eat something before bed, that I've even taken to buying in multiple tubs of the only jarred food she'll eat so I can make sure she's had something before she goes down. I'd prefer her to eat home cooked obviously but I was desperate! She has a quiet room and black out blinds - although it's still pitch dark when she wakes anyway.

I know someone's going to say "ha, up at 5.30, mine wake 26 times a night and I never get more than 20 minutes sleep and they're 12, you've got it good" but we're really struggling. We managed to get into such a massive fight over fitting a stairgate today that my wedding ring is off and one of us will be sleeping on the sofa tonight DS (3.9) is also struggling with being up that early and it's affecting his behaviour at pre-school. He's in the room next door to her so when she starts screaming, she wakes him up too.

Does anyone have any advice? Just another hour in the morning would make all the difference to us I think.

You have my absolute sympathy. My DD (now 16 months old) was like this for a long time - she was never a good sleeper, but things became so much worse when around 10 months to about 14 months she was an early riser - 5am-5.45am. God I always envied anyone who said their baby woke up after 6.

I think the difference has been a few things:

firstly she's gone to nursery since I returned to work and she's absolutely knackered of an evening!

Secondly, she started walking at around 13-14 months. Again adding to her tiredness. Think it also helped her appetite increase (like your DD, ours was never a great eater and she had jars of food for a long time as she really wouldn't take to anything else - again think nursery helped).
Lastly, she's gone to one sleep a day - we get her through to just after lunch (not always successful - she sometimes falls asleep before lunch as she's too tired) - and I'm sure this has helped - admittedly getting her to one sleep a day was also a nursery inspired thing.

I guess what I'm saying is that things may well change when she does start walking and by the sound of things it sounds like that could be soon for her. For our DD, she now gets up at 6.00-6.30 each day, which is absolute bliss in comparison to how it once was. Plus, know how stressful it can be with your DP - being tired all the time is not good for a relationship - if you're anything like us, I was practically going to bed at 8pm each night just so I could cope. Awful. Hope things get better soon.

Thank you so much for replying knickyknocks.

I'm hoping walking will help. She's standing unaided now and will attempt a couple of steps between things when she's feeling brave so I don't think it'll be long. Hopefully, the extra physical effort will help with both her eating and sleeping. She's even a nightmare to get milk down since we stopped breastfeeding at 12 months, it's so frustrating. She's right at the bottom of the growth chart (between 0.4 and 2nd centile) but I just can't get her to eat or drink anymore.

For ages she had no naps at all so it was a revelation when she started having a sleep during the day. Her morning one is definitely the most needed for her at the moment so i can't see us being able to wean her off it any time soon . She can take or leave the afternoon nap but it doesn't seem to affect her wake up time whether she has it or not. The morning nap also my bit of "sanity time" at the moment as DS has pre-school in the mornings so I get an hour to myself to try and compose myself for the afternoon.

I'm going to bed early every night but I think the fact that it is still pitch dark when she wakes is what's making things such a struggle. I'm dreading the mornings getting lighter though, what if she wakes up even earlier?!!

I really do feel your pain! When the clocks went back, people started saying to me that it would have an even worse affect on DD. I thought I was going to have to start getting up at 4am!! I really do think things will get better and thankfully the mornings getting lighter is still a couple of months off - plenty of time in her world! Definitely think the walking thing will help in your case - especially with the eating. But it's slooooow progress and I know how bloody frustrating it is.

Can't believe your LO had no naps for a while!! At least ours did nap (even if I did cheat by taking her in the car somewhere just to get her to nod off). Think our LO had a 9.30/10 nap for a while longer. Usually about 45 mins. Then (and only on occasions) would sleep in the afternoon around 2pm-3pm another 45 minutes. Never giving me enough time to do anything!Definitely stay with the morning nap for your sanity, sounds like you really don't need this to change at the mo. That said, this is bound to change at some point over the next few months - if you can, just go with it, because that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow says it might pay back with a 6am lie in! Woohoo!! (I can't believe I would ever have seen 6am as a lie in - but as the past year has shown me, 6am is a luxury!)

PS And if you can - and I know how difficult this is to organise - but try and have a night off at some point soon with DP. Give you both something to look forward to and you both definitely deserve it.

Sorry I meant by the having a night off idea to try and get someone else to look after your LO's for the night. A guaranteed lie in for you then....sheer bliss

We managed to get to the cinema a week or so ago but it meant a late night as we couldn't leave until she was settled (she's very clingy and doesn't like MIL so we had no choice but to settle her before we left) so didn't get out until gone 7.30, then by the time you've done anything, it's late, so the next morning was very hard work.

We've been trying to have a lie in each at the weekend too. This morning was my turn as I stayed in bed till 8am - whoo hoo! - but DH was so tired from getting up at 5.45 he just went nuts over the gate and the whole house ended up in tears.

Ah, you mean sending them for a sleepover. Only MIL is close enough and DD doesn't like her or FIL. She only ever sleeps the whole night in her own bed and would never resttle for MIL. She'd be beside herself if she found herself alone with her at night. Even when we all go away together, she won't sleep through in a strange bed.

I'm sorry, I don't have any answers, because if I did we wouldn't be in the same situation!

It is gradually improving (he's 15 months next week), I'd say out of the last week more than half of our mornings have been after 6am (which is a huge improvement!). Nothing we've done differently though.

Luckily ds1 sleeps like the dead and despite sharing a room, is very rarely woken by his little bugger brother.

Bucketloads of sympathy x

Thank you for replying COCKadoodledooo Sorry you're in the same situation. Fingers crossed our little monsters angels sleep better soon.

Well. today started at 5.28am Decided to treat it like the middle of the night - it certainly felt like it because it was pitch black - and do exactly what I'd do if she woke at midnight. I went in, laid her back down, shushed her and patted her chest, then left her. Everytime, we got about 5 minutes peace and then she'd start up again. I gave up at about 6.15am

She woke me, DH and DS. DH got up and sorted himself out for work and then left without even saying goodbye, never mind his usual morning kiss so I guess yesterday's arguement is still going . DS has pre-school this morning so he'll be tired and grotty too. I was up with him needing the loo at gone 11 last night so I'm pretty tired too. It's going to be a long day....

My 11.5mo dd is just the same. Even the nap pattern is similar. I even started a thread about it last week. Thankfully (and I am grateful for this) she sleeps from 7pm through the night- but wakes up very early. This morning it was 5.40am.

We've been doing a namby pamby sort of controlled crying- ie leaving her but going in if she cries properly, and not leaving her longer than a few minutes if she is crying hard. It seemed to be working- she was sleeping til 6.30am ish. Woo hoo!

But yesterday she was up at 5am and within 45 mins the neighbour's kids were woken up by her so we didn't continue this morning as we felt too guilty! I went in, kept lights off, and tried to settle her. Like you I gave in at 6.15am.

Naps wise she has been gradually going down to one nap (like a poster above this was necessitated by her starting daycare). I have to say- and I know this isn't what you want to hear- when she went through a stretch of having no morning naps the other week, we saw a big improvement. The last few days she has had two naps as she has been so tired. And the early mornings have started again.

It's really hard isn't it? With our dd it's frustrating as she self settles for naps (though doesn't stay asleep for long!) and at bedtime, plus during the night. So maybe she is just awake in the morning.

But I think I'm going to cling on to the before-6.15am-is-nighttime rule, and persevere trying to settle her before that time.

7pm to 7am sounds like ultimate bliss!

That souns very, very similar Shushbaby! DD goes down at 7pm too and for the past month or so, has been sleeping through. I know in comparison to a lot of people, we're getting loads of sleep but I'm still really struggling with the early mornings.

Luckily, DD's room doesn't ajoin to the neighbours house so we're not disturbing anyone but DS when we try our own (namby pamby :) ) controlled crying routine.

I think I might carry on with the same before-6.15am-is-nighttime rule too and see how we go.

DS spoiled me I think. He did 7-7 all on his own!

Took DD swimming this morning. Seems to have helped with naps so wonder if that will help/hinder tomorrows wake up?

Hmmm.... who knows? Seems to me there is no rhyme or reason sometimes. DD's latest trick seems to be that she is weaning herself off her bedtime feed. Fantastic for me, in a way, as I have started back at work and was worried about having to go away overnight and not be able to feed her (she doesn't "do" bottles or cow's milk). But part of me is angsty, thinking that without a full tummy of milk, maybe she'll be up at Awful O'Clock.

God, how we torture ourselves.

Am trying to focus on the fact that dd sleeps 10-11 hours straight at night. There are people on these boards who would want to kick us for complaining about an early wake-up call!

Still though, it's hard. But I'm keeping the 6.15am-is-morning rule neighbours be damned.

Well, she had loads of dinner tonight but not so much milk so she must have been full. Was pasta too which should help her feel full for a little longer. She went to bed about 20 minutes later too. really hoping it helps.

Will go for 6.15-is-morning too and let you know how I get on.

I do feel a bit guilty for complaining when, as you say, there are some who would kill for 10 hours undisturbed sleep. I know there are some who have it a lot worse than me

We had crying at 5.30am this morning but then she went back to sleep and....I had to wake her at 7.20

This mornings nap isn't happening but I don't care. Even with DS waking me at 6.30 I've had a lie in :)

It's no doubt a one off but I'm revelling in it

Weird! We had crying at 5.15am then she self settled and slept til 6.20. Not as triumphant as 7.20, I'll grant you. But I was still v pleased (and also certain it's a one-off).

Unusually, she woke twice in the night, seemingly to chat and needed settling. Babies, they are a mystery.

ps Cannot imagine having to wake dd. It would be like the world had turned upside down!

Yes, I announced it on twitter with the hashtag #alternatereality

DD self settled herself at 5.30 too! How strange.

I thought we were going to ditch this morning's nap altogether but she crawled onto my lap at 11am, put her head on my shoulder and fell asleep. Had to pick Ds up from pre-school at 11.50 so let her have 10 mins and then laid her on the floor while I got ready. She had about 20 mins in all when she'll usually have 60-90 mins in the morning. Hoping for a longer sleep than her usual 40 mins this afternoon to even things up but DS has swimming lessons at 3.30 so it'll depend on when she goes down as to how long I can let her have.

If this carries on and she ditches the morning nap, we'll be able to do so many new things. I used to take DS to the library song time and a music class but they're all on in the morning so we've had to miss them while she sleeps. I might actually feel up to them if it translates into getting up at a decent time too! :)

I actually find that going to a morning playgroup or activity really helps with reducing/cutting out the morning nap. She might drop off in the buggy on the way there, but never for longer than ten minutes so I still expect a least an hour's nap in the afternoon (my girl really is not a big napper and never has been!).

This morning she fell asleep in the buggy on the way back from playgroup at just before 12 so I am leaving her sleeping and will give her lunch when she wakes.

At this transition time I'm having to abandon my usual control freakery routine and just go with the flow. Well, try to, anyway. In any case I really think that cutting out dd's morning nap or pushing it waaaay back does help with the early rising.

Credit to you for juggling an early rising baby with an older child!

Oh FFS! DD now has a temp over 39 degrees That'll throw a spanner in the works. She's currently refusing afternoon nap too. Hoping she falls asleep on way to swimming in car and sleeps through half hour lesson

No nap all day. She had 10 minutes on me while we were at swimming but that's it. Was so zonked at bedtime, she fell asleep while we were reading her story. Tired myself now. Might have an early night too

How did you get on last night/this morning? Hopefully your dd made up for her wakeful day by sleeping in...?

We had a 6am wake up call this morning, which isn't too bad. I was too tired to impose the 6.15am rule, so I just switched the lights on, chucked some toys in her cot and she played til 6.30am.

She cried at 5.20 but resettled herslf and I woke her at 7am

She was desperate for her morning nap by 10am though and had almost an hour. She's fighting the afternoon nap but has just dropped off.

She doesn't do playing in her cot so more sleep is our only respite. I'm just trying not to get excited in case she reverts back to normal tomorrow

She slept right through until 6.58 this morning! I was expecting a difficult night too as she'd had a temperature when she went to bed.

ShushBaby you are a genius Thank you for making me feel better about leaving her in the morning, it's made a huge difference for us.

Well thank you! Glad things are easier for you. You have actually had more success than us! Though dd woke up at 6.30am this morning, which I can't complain about really.

We are definitely finding that if we don't rush in at her first waking, she goes back to sleep. And pushing back the morning feed seems to have helped.

Long may it last!