Is 10mo too late for sleep training?

[BusyMissIzzy]

10mo DD has always been fed or cuddled to sleep. She used to sleep through (10pm till 7amish), but that stopped at about 6 or 7mo when her teeth started coming in. At the moment she wakes once or twice most nights; sometimes goes back down after a cuddle, sometimes comes into our bed, and very occasionally needs a bottle.
Ideally I'd like her to a) be put down awake when she's tired and fall alseep on her own, b) maybe go to bed earlier and c) sleep through, obviously (wouldn't we all?)

Have I missed the boat as far as sleep training is concerned? Any insight/advice would be much appreciated.

No, you haven't missed the boat! I'm a fan of well-timed and empathic sleep training. We did a very small amount of controlled crying with DD1 when she was 8 months old and it worked a treat. Many people insist that babies should be at least 1 year old before sleep training, so you're definitely no too late.

I used the Millpond Sleep Clinic and Andrea Grace. They're private sleep consultants and have brought out books. None of it is rocket science but it's money extremely well spent if you need a bit of support and a clear plan.

Here's what we did:

1. Phase out any night feeds. If they're a regular thing, gradually offer less and less, decreasing feeds by 1 oz every 3 nights.
2. Controlled crying: Put baby down to sleep with a set phrase ("Good night, I love you very much, sleep well" was mine) and a brief pat. LEAVE. Then go in at intervals as you feel comfortable (I initially did 5 minutes, then 10, then 15 but it depends on your baby). Don't make a big fuss. Just repeat your phrase.

You'll find a huge range of opinions on CC and let me tell you that it didn't come easily to us, but I simply HAD to sleep. DD1 remains a happy, confident, brilliant little sleeper a year on (with the usual blips).

Good luck!

Thanks, that's very helpful. Can I ask, re: the CC, did you put her down when she was obviously tired, or when you wanted her to sleep?

In fact, with regard to CC, studies suggest it is more effective and works more quickly the older the child is, rising to a 100% success rate above the age of 2 years, mostly in 4 days or less.

The younger the baby is, the less certain the outcome and the longer it can take (that said in the 6-12mo age group, over 80% of babies show "improvement" in their overnight sleep after CC.

HTH

Thanks, that's interesting.

In the past few nights she's developed the habit of waking up and staying awake for an hour and a half . Last night she was inconsolable and drooling a lot so gave her Calpol, and even then she didn't settle till an hour later, with a bottle.

Chances are you're in the tail end of the 9 month sleep regression, which is linked to a neurological spurt at around Week 46 (corrected if necessary).
Info here

If that's the case - which sounds quite likely from what you say - just do what you can to maximise sleep for the whole family and it will probably pass in a few weeks.

And if it doesn't, you've always got sleep training to fall back on....!

Good luck.

Oh that would be great if it were a temporary sleep regression. She has picked up a lot of new skills in the past few weeks (clapping, 'singing' and dancing, saying Mama, fetching particular toys when asked), so a neurological spurt sounds plausible. She's 43 weeks now. So I guess we ride it out and see what happens. I'm hoping that she will (sooner or later) go back to sleeping through, since she's shown she is capable of it.

BMI exactly the same here - awake at 2 or 3 for an hour and a bit for the last week or so, and no longer settles herself tosleep, has to be cuddled or fed. I hope so much it is the sleep regression. I'm falling apart - pleading with a 10 month old at 3am is not a good look!

Why I thought it might be too late to do any sleep training is that she is too mobile - stands instantly when she wakes - how will she fall asleep again from standing? And screams inconsolably leading to big uncontrollable sobs when I do cuddle her.

Sorry, no advice but just a friendly moan :) !

Definately NOT too late, I would say it is the perfect time. We tried it at 6 months and it was distressing for all concerned. Tried again at ten months and it worked a treat. They can understatnd more, and are more receptive to repeated behaviour, know what is generally expected more. We just left him for 5 mins, then went in and settled, said same thing again and again, then went up to ten mins. Didn't take long. He sleeps through most nights now. Give it a try, you've nothing to lose.

Yes Siamese ikwym re: the standing. The only times I've put DD down awake were when she was very small and not mobile. Now she just stands up (or at least sits up) if I put her in her cot when she's not fast asleep.

siamese I know it sounds cruel, but they do eventually sit and lie down again. I know it is really hard, but in the end if you get to the end of your tether, (and only you will know when it is the right time for you), then give it five mins, timed carefully, and just keep going. I just had to do it and I NEEDED more sleep to be able to function as a good mum in the daytime.

It won't be like this for ever.

We did CC with 14 month old DS who would not lie down in his cot. He had gone from needing about 10 min of cuddles to go to sleep in the evening / in the middle of the night to needing 45min+ of cuddles just to get him down to sleep and then refusing to be put back in his cot for sessions of 1-1 1/2 hours in the night.

We used Millpond sleep clinic too. Our advisor said it was a choice between that and gradual retreat, which would have meant spending hours in the night repeatedly lying him down everytime he stood up. I didn't feel I could do that so it had to be CC (not an easy decision). Luckily it worked really quickly, and he 'only' cried for about 45min the first evening, then 30min the second and I can't really remember the middle of the night so it can't have been that traumatic. Now we just put him down and walk out of his room - no crying or anything.

watching with interest. ds2 is 10 months on friday and i think we're going to try cc this weekend onwards. desperate for sleep. not being the mum i need to be for ds1 in particular as i'm so lethargic all of the time. i didn't think i'd ever consider cc, but we've tried rocking.shushing etc, which got us so far.

desperately hoping it doesn't take too long.

Your DS has the same birthday as my DD sheep :)

Thanks for the replies everyone, definitely food for thought.

how funny busy, what a coincidence! hope your dd sleeps better soon. good luck!

I'm also watching this thread with interest as my DD is coming up to 10m in a few days and her sleep is horrendous at the moment...

She can be quite good at times, but since 9m (I know there's a sleep regression!) when she learnt to pull up to standing, and separation anxiety seems to have really kicked in (I can arely go to the loo in the day!) things have really gone to pot.

I have tried a bit of halfhearted CC but it just seemed to be making her worse. The thing is, although she can stand I don't think she can get back to lying dowm once she is up (Ive never seen her do it, not even in the day, as I have to watch her like a hawk to catch her when she loses her balance) so I don't understand how CC will work until she's mastered this...or am I being daft?!

Bedtimes ahve gone to pot and she is regularly up for 1.5 hrs after her night feed (which I want to get rid of ASAP) which is when she stands and SCREAMS and SCREAMS and SCREAMS. Eventually she runs out of energy and I can get her back to sleep with a bit of patting/shushing

I really hope someone comes along with some miraculous advice soon

My DS2 has been a 'bad' sleeper and for the first year we never had a full night's sleep and most nights he was in with us for a good part of the night- just recently though we left him to settle himself in his cot and it was much less traumatic and drawn out than we expected. I hadn't read any books but what previous posts have said make sense in that the later you leave it the better for the child. With DS1 we did controlled crying at 6 months and it was much more traumatic (although it did work). I just couldn't bring myself to do it so early with DS2 and have no regrets about waiting.

curlyLJ We've been having problems with separation anxiety too, and I was reluctant to try CC as she just seemed to get distressed any time we left her. She seems to be coming out the other side of it now though, so maybe I'll give it a few more weeks to see if the sleep regression passes by itself, and then try CC if we're desparate. Good to hear positive accounts of CC at a similar age.

Separation anxiety tends to reach a peak at around the first birthday, then starts to ebb after that - probably another reason why CC tends to work better on toddlers than on babies. That plus the more sophisticated understanding of what's going on.

At the moment if DD is unsettled at bedtime, I sit quietly in her room until she's quiet, sometimes saying "Sssh, sleepy time," then leave (before she's asleep) and overnight, I tend to stay and sleep on a mattress in her room after she's woken. I'm not sure that's strictly necessary TBH, but she seems to be getting better at self-settling when being put back in her cot.

The pulling up to standing is a classic thing that interferes with sleep for a while. It'll pass. Meantime, curly, maybe you could encourage her to learn how to get herself back down to sitting during the day?? Once she can do that, maybe it'll help with the night-wakings? Worth a go anyway...

Not too late, we're on day 8 now of sleep training my DS and he's 10mo today!

We've gone from taking 2 hours to feed him to sleep - he didn't want to do it anymore but didn't know how else to get to sleep - eventually dropping off around 9, then waking hourly for milk (he couldn't get past a sleep cycle without waking), then into our bed around midnight for co-sleeping and non-stop feeding until 8.

And after a week of using an age appropriate version of PUPD he last night settled himself with no crying at all - just rolled over and dropped off! Woke at 5.30 for milk then got up at 8. No crying at all, all night. It was amazing and I never thought we'd get there. I worried so much about it I thought it'd never work for us, but he's testament to it.

Take the plunge but be consistent - it's worth it imo!

LaTristesse - wow, you must feel fab! what is your age appropriate version of PUPD?

LaTristesse that sounds pretty grim, glad the sleep training is helping!

Inmaculada you're very knowlegdeable, thankyou :) How old is/are your DC?

We had a pretty good night last night, one wake at 1.30am and she went back down with just a cuddle (well, 3 attempts to put her down before she stayed asleep, but still).

sheep..., it's basically PUPD but without the shushing or patting, as apparently these can be too distracting at this age.

The first night I must have PUPD'd over 60 times (I didn't have the stamina to count, but it took about an hour and a half), and he did cry a fair bit but I kept reminding myself that I was teaching him a new skill and it would take a while for him to get the hang of it.

Check out my 'self soothing' thread on here to read the brilliantly detailed advice another Mumsnetter gave me, which got me started.

Hi BMI

My DD is just three weeks shy of her first birthday. She's always been a frequent waker, although that got a lot better after a wee bit of sleep training (not CC as such) at 7.5 months. She went from waking 5 times minimum overnight (settled with a feed each time) to 1-3 per night. And she's gradually improving, although we've had our ups and downs.

I still feed her sleepy, but she goes in her cot awake (or wakes when I put her in there). Early morning wakings I now deal with by bringing her into bed with me and letting her stay latched on if she wants. She's notoriously hard to settle in her cot after about 05.00, so she and I both get more sleep if I don't bother trying at that time.

Because of my DD's erratic sleep, I've been an obsessive reader of the Sleep threads on MN (not to mention the odd book here and there), so that's where all my drivel information comes from.

AngelDog and Igglybluff are the real experts (they've read and digested ALL the books and advice on sleep!) and you can find a fair bit of info on this thread if you have the time to wade through...!

Am watching this thread with interest as I'm in exactly the same position! Actually sitting on the landing outside my DD's room right now on the second night of CC.
She's 1, never been a great sleeper but has slept through the night about three times per week and always been fine with her daytime sleep. We'd managed to muddle through the other nights
But over the last two weeks she's become progressively worse.
She always went down to sleep at 7pm without a peep, now she's screaming blue murder the minute I stand up to put her in her cot.
But the worst of it is that she wakes at around 2am and won't go back to sleep for hours. We've tried everything else - bottle, shushing, rocking, in the bed. Nothing works ( although in the bed she's quiet, but still not asleep for ages.)
Did CC with our older DD when she was 9 months old and it worked easily. She's 6 now and a brilliant sleeper as well as being happy, confident and bright.
This DD seems to be more resistant to CC but I don't know what else works? And, yes, she's standing so each time I go in I lie her back down.
Sorry - again not much advice there just good luck and CC does work in the end and it's not too late.

Can really relate to this - have an 11 month who has never slept through (but know it is partly my fault because he room shares with his brother so have been feeding him when he wakes just to make him get back to sleep). Anyway, after a few nights of him waking and screaming for an hour and half decided enough was enough and implemented the PUPD method. Didn't have high hopes but (so far) has worked. When he stands in his cot I've just been lying him back down with his comfort toy and saying "bed time, time to go to sleep". A hand on his back seems to soothe him. Keep repeating the mantra - boredom will send him to sleep.

Tonight he settled after 10 mins, he slept from 7 pm to 5:30 am(oh joy!) last night so - all things crossed - seems to be working ...

Good luck to you all!