Day sleep probs..."Gina baby"

[Bloom]

Hi, I'm new to this site. I have a 7 week old baby and we have been following the routines from TCLBB since he was one week old. He is a very good baby, and we mostly have had great success with the routines.

However, we are having some problems at the moment with his day time sleeps.

1. he sleeps fine during the lunch time long sleep if he is at home in his own bed (its a baby hammock suspended on a spring, so moves a little when he sleeps). But when we are out, or at work (I own day nurseries and he has been coming to work with me), he will wake after 45 minutes and not go back to sleep. He is obviously still tired, but wont give in.

2. After his morning sleep, I have to wake him up and he is soooooo grumpy. I then spend the next hour until his feed trying to entertain him, but usually he just cries on and off. But if we are out, or at nursery, he doesnt do this. He is happy to look around at all the new things until it is time for his next feed.

3. same problem as morning, but he does it after pm sleep.

With regards to the second and third problem, I have tried letting him have a longer sleep, thinking that he may still be tired, but this did not work. Also, the fact that he is fine when out indicates to me that he is not really tired. I am also sure that he is not hungry during these times. And also, after the 2:30 feed he is quite happy to entertain self in bouncy chair for up to 45 minutes.

Anyone following these routines have any suggestions?

Can't help much I'm afraid - I've a 7 month CLB baby and have become a total GF fan - just one thing - I find taking a piece of black out lining out and about with me a great help in getting her to sleep when she is out /stay asleep when she comes into light sleep - I drape it over cot/pram whatever and it makes it dark/removes distractions.

Hi Bloom
My daughter is 7 mths too. And in the early days we found it difficult to get her to take her long nap - most success if we were at home, but v. difficult if we were out. Would have some success if it was quiet and like Jgb says, we used to hang something over the edge. Until about 3 months ish, even when we were at home, she used to wake up after 45 mins. Never used to be able to get her back to sleep. Then one day, I was on the phone and couldn't get to her immediately when she woke up and she cried. By the time I came off the phone (a few mins later) she had stopped crying and gone back to sleep!
So after that I just left her to see if she could settle back and she did. (Kind of unintential controlled crying!) Re morning nap and afternoon nap - I'm sorry I don't remember so well. In early days, I do remember that she used to scream for milk at 5pm on the dot! Sounds like you have an active baby that likes entertainment!
HTH!

With regards to point 1... I think that you need to let your baby in bed after the 45 minutes - unless he is crying quite strongly. If he doesn't cry at least he will be "resting" in bed. As GF says, they do have 45 minutes of sleep and then come out into a much lighter sleep and they do go back into it if not disrupted. I agree with that on most days... sometimes, my son would not go back to sleep after 45 minutes no matter how long I left him but he was happy to stay in bed, chating away !
As for point 2 and 3, I would hazard a guess.... your baby knows he can get away with being more fussy at home ??? Have you tried letting him be for a bit longer everyday to see if he will settle ?
Also have a look at the GF Q&As on this site, maybe they cover your topic....

Good luck,

Let us know how you get on !

Message withdrawn

Well my daughter is 3 weeks and 3 days old... she is - to start with - a lot easier than my son was, hence with him I started the routine at 1 week old... so with her I have not yet REALLY started but am in the process of... I orginally felt that I might not put her on it as she was so easy.

The advantage of her going on the routine will be that she will nap at the same time as her 20 months old brother- she isn't at this stage so it is hard for ME to nap. The other advantage which I am now working towards will be that she will sleep from 7PM to 10PM... so even within 3 weeks I have already changed my mind and for the past 2 days I am trying to ger her on it - and I am finding it hard for her to start as I don't want to force it. I seem to remember that her brother quickly adpated.
I will definitely keep you posted.

But second baby is - in my very short experience -easier !

Dear Bloom - I'm having exactly the same problems with my 8 week old as you described back in september. He tends to perk up after 20 mins of grumbling after the afternoon sleep, and with the morning we just hold out until feed time. H'e not really upset - just grouchy. Also 45 min cycle very pronounced at lunch time - he will only go down for another 45 mins after at least 1/2hr awake. He also has light waking after his 4am feed - every 45 mins until 7! I have started leaving him and he often goes back - although not always. As your message was 4 months ago I'm hoping to learn from your wisdom! any tips? Manna

Manna-not sure I understand the problem... can you re-explain ?Is his room very dark and is it quiet at nap time?

I seem to have the opposite. My daughter, Sasha, was 12 weeks on Wednesday and she is a very "sleepy" baby.

For the last two nights, she has slept from 9:30 pm (at the lastest) until I wake her at 8:30 ish, having dropped two night feeds.

Every day, she wakes in the morning and has a bottle of milk. She is then awake for about 15 minutes (no longer!) and then starts grizzling. I put her in her pram and she falls off to sleep and sleeps until her next feed. (Saying that, I fed her at 8:20 this morning and she is still asleep!).

She has her lunch time feed and also falls to sleep again near enough straight after.

I find her wakeful period to be the early part of the evening (say 6 pm to 7 pm) where she is most alert - smiling at her big brother and sister and taking in her surroundings.

Once she has had her last bottle (8:30 or 9 pm) I put her in her crib where she has to fall asleep on her own (after a bit of grizzling) and she sleeps all night (although saying that, I know that just because she has slept through the last two nights, doesn't mean she will sleep through the night without waking every again)!

I think you would actually. If you see that the sleep goes haywire (spelling?) than you might want to re-address.
In my experience GF is particularely useful to give a rythm to your child (particularely sleep routine). What she tries to convey is that you need a certain amount of feeding during the day to ensure a good night sleep. Your baby already sleeps through the night so you should be OK.

hello - new to this message board thang. I have a 13 month old boy and my husband and I are fully paid up members of the Gina Fan Club. However, I am really stuck - my little boy has a full cup of formula after a bath at 6.40pm and drops off to a good sleep by 7 pm. He has a good daytime nap 12.15 to 2.15. BUT is waking at 6 every morning, and I am such a poor sleeper nowadays (some unkind people might say neurotic!). I don't know what to do to get him the extra hour's sleep until 7am. He really needs the extra hour as he becomes baby from another planet by 11.30am and quite clearly needs a little longer in the morning(despite sleeping bag etc) - do you think the milk before bed is the problem? He has soup and a sandwich for tea, with a small drink and maybe a yoghurt with fruit. Any advice most welcome please ...

charliesmummy, its been a while since I read the GF 'manual' but maybe your ds isn't actually having enough sleep in the day?? I find that when my dd doesn't sleep enough in the day, she gets so tired that she falls into a very deep sleep at 7pm and sleeps so heavily that she invariably wakes up early (although she's now 2 and the GF plan has gone out of the window!) I think at 13 months my dd was still having a nap in the morning as well. Perhaps pupuce could help, or you could look and see how much sleep GF recommends at 13 months. Good luck!

Agree with Enid.
I think you might want to see if your child can't have a 15 minute nap in the morning and maybe push his lunchtime nap at 1230 or 1245.
I remember reading a Q&A form Gina who answered a similar question on this site - so have a look.
The milk might be the problem but it is common for children to do this : wake up an hour too early!!!!
Does he wake-up with a full/leaky nappy - does it bother him ? That would answer the milk question !
Enid - my 2 yo is "still on GF", so is my 5 mo !!!! But I have to admit to not looking at the book as often as before.
Charliesmummy, keep posting here with your observation as we might be able to give you more support. I am desesperatly hooked mumsnetter ! So I'll check everyday anyway ...

Charliesmummy,
my ds recently started waking up early having previously slept from 7pm-7.45am. We've followed the GF routine since birth, although at 1year (ds is now 15months) encouraged him to drop the am nap and sleep longer in the morning. I'm "naughty" in that due to a really nasty tummy bug over Xmas, I'm still giving ds a bottle of milk at 6.45pm (slapped wrists!!) as he's still catching up on weight that he lost over this bug. I know that we should be kicking this habit, but what with bugs and house moves its just got put off. So that means he has 7oz just before sleep.
His recent early morning wakening may well be due to the house move and general life disturbances going on, but I found that if I treated his waking up as if it was still the middle of the night, ie quick cuddle in the dark, back to bed and repeated mutterings of "sleepytime" and "night, night" he resettled and stayed quiet until I went back at 7.45am I did this for three mornings following, and touch wood, he didnt wake early today.
I'm certainly no GF expert, but it may be worth trying. By waking up later, ds has a lunch time nap between 1-2.40pm, yet is still tired enough to settle well at 7pm again.
While I'm here, any tips anyone on giving up the dreaded bottle. Quick, before its a real battle!

Honeybunny, why do you want to stop the bottle ? I know experts say to drop it at one and give it in a cup... DS just dropped the bottle at X-mas (and he is 2). That was his only bottle, everything else comes in a cup. It was part of his routine and it didn't harm him.
He stopped because he drinks goat milk and I had to change brands (I was in the South of France) so after 3 nights where he didn't drink it because he didn't like it, he stopped asking.
If you are concern because of weight gain maybe it is worth giving him a less fatty milk but I'd check that with a HV maybe...

Re: dropping the bottle, I have mentioned this on another thread but all I can say is BE TOUGH - my ds is 10 months old, was mixed fed for 8 months & then I started persevering with the cup - I just don't like the look of older babies with bottles (no offence intended) - plus the faff of sterilising etc. Encourage your baby to hold the cup himself & you will have to try several types (I recommend the basic Tommee Tippee) and beware - none of them are leak proof.

Maybe I was lucky but I only had a couple of days of resistance & he was on to cups. He is an incredibly good eater/drinker & so perhaps he realised there was no alternative!

Good luck

Lindy - no "need" to sterilise after 6 months old... but I agree that it's not very sightly. I just find that if it is easy : drop it, if it isn't... is it worth the stress anbd aggrevation for all involved in forcing the issue ?

I will certainly give the 15 minute nap a go and I will also try; if he wakes early, the go back to sleep thing, I did try that last week but I was not very consistent!I have set aside next week to try different things. Whilst I am here could someone clear up - Cup/Bottle, what is that all about? I thought that the Avent trainer bottles were cups, so should I be trying to wean off the brightly coloured trainer cups and use what? any suggestions. Also, I have bought the Contented Baby to Confident Child Book and I cannot seem to find where she says that before bedtime milk drink should be dropped, and as he can only seem to manage 5oz, however, I am so scared about dropping that one - is it so bad?

Pupuce, its the teeth thing! I don't mind that ds still has a pre-bedtime bottle. Its one of my favourite times of the day. A cuddle with a "just washed" smelling baby, snuggling up under my chin, all quiet and peaceful, blissful! But I worry about the potential of tooth decay from still having a bottle. He's got 9teeth so far and is less than keen on having them cleaned after his last bottle. DS lost lots of weight after his D+V bug, and is on the light side anyway, (25th centile) so if anything I'd be going for the full fat plus extra cream variety if there was one! He's certainly been much hungrier since he got over the bug. He'd previously dropped his post lunchtime nap milk (cup) but now wants 6oz at least, as soon as he wakes up. Despite having a good lunch. Maybe he's making up for lost time after his first year.
And Lindy, its no faff pouring 7oz of cowsmilk into a bottle and warming it up in the microwave. I wash all the bits in the dishwasher. No sterilising required as Pupuce said.

Honeybunny - the teeth thing. I think I read from another mum (who has quite a bit of knowledge on these matters) that if he goes to bed at least 30 minutes after his bottle than it's OK because the saliva will have done most of the work... but don't quote me !

Wow! I can't believe how many responses there are to this. Its been a few months since I have been back to this site.

Here's the update. Ds is still a Gina baby. He is now 28 weeks old and an extremely contented baby. The grumpiness thing after sleeps has disappeared. He will happily play bewteen sleeps/feeds. AS far as not sleeping when we go out, nothing has changed. At nursery, I have to take him for a walk at lunch time in the pram to get him to sleep, but he will only have half an hour. I have stopped stressing about it all now. And he copes remarkably well on little sleep those days.

Mana - as far as the grumpiness thing goes, I think they just do grow out of it. With the wakings, I found that ds did this too in the early hours. But it was just a question of leaving him to settle back to sleep. Now, he still wakes once sometime between 4-6am, but he settles himself back off again

Tried the 15 minutes nap as suggested this morning, or rather should I say due to the fact that I am on night shift, dh is at home so he tried it and my bubba was not baby from hell, although I await with interest to find out what time he wakes this morning - will keep you informed. The problem that I did not mention was that since Sunday when I changed his cot sheets and blankets, I made the executive decision to loose the (Gina recommended) Glove Sheet, as I thought - too much washing and ironing now, especially as there is no sicky/possetting anymore. So on Sunday night I could not understand the manic crying for an hour prior to sleep - I have to say unheard of, this happened again on Monday Night - needless to say my dh and I ended up having one of those hissing quitely at each other with ugly faces rows, due to my manic tiredness and his very bizarre chronic hyperchondria since our little boy was born - last week he informed me, in between stuffing rolos in his mouth that he thinks that he may have had a touch of meningitis! yes really. So I have racked my brains, and tonight as an afterthought/try anything tact, put the Glove Sheet back in the Cot - yup straight to sleep. So maybe my bubba uses his Glove Sheet as his comforter or rather my bubba has a bubba. Anyway, I am rambling now, thanks for your suggestions.

Charliesmummy- what's a glove sheet? Don't remember these mentioned in GF. Is it just a posset cloth under the head kind of thing incase of drooling/posseting etc. Mine uses his posset cloth as a security blanket now. An essential part of settling to sleep (plenty of sucking) and occassionally for comfort (a lot recently with our 2nd house move in 5months). Reminds me of that character in Peanuts cartoon, Linus is it? who carries his around everywhere! DS isn't quite that bad, we've made sure it stays firmly in the bedroom!

Honeybunny - Glove Sheet, oops sorry its the brand name of the possett cloths that I bought, and due to ironing 12 at a time I used to stare blankly at the label and I have been brainwashed!. Interesting that yours uses it as a security blanket so now that we have had no problems whatsoever as soon as I put it back on the cot, I feel the usual "here I go again, now why did'nt I think of that, bad mummy"!! hey ho.

It is amazing to see how some things will disrupt their sleep and to think how many hours we spend trying to figure it out..... if they only knew!! Maybe we can remind then when they'll be 14 and "ungrateful" !!!!