Support thread for no-cry sleep plans

[beancounting]

Following on from another thread about rubbish sleepers, this is a thread for anyone trying to implement a NCSS-type plan to improve their DC's sleep, where we can share plans, provide moral support and try and keep each other on track!

Over the past week we have been working on getting 5mo DD to sleep in her own bed rather than co-sleep (which we have been doing more and more for about the last 2 months), and have been making some progress, with 3 nights spent entirely in her bed and 3 where she came into our bed after about 4am.

So I'm now thinking of moving on to the next stage, with the objective of reducing the number of times DD wakes in the night from 5 or 6 to 3 or 4 - but at the moment I BF her to sleep at night and she can't self-settle when she wakes up.

My plan for this is to use the Pantley Pull Off to gently break the BF-to-sleep association (and gradually progress to putting her down more awake) and to try spacing out night feeds a bit (I've been working on trying to get her to feed more in the day so I don't think she really needs to feed that often at night - she's now only sucking for 5 minutes or so before she nods off again), initially by rocking her back to sleep rather than just automatically feeding her.

If you've used the PPO, how long did it take to break the BF/sleep association? How did you know when to try to remove your DC from the breast? Pantley says something about the sucks becoming light and fluttery but DD seems to go straight from strong fast sucks to falling off the breast fast asleep so I keep getting the timing wrong.

And is it realistic to try and space the night feeds from 2 hourly to 3 hourly, or should I work up to that by pushing them back by say 15 minutes at a time?

Does anyone else have any plans they're working on at the moment, so we can compare notes on progress etc?

that is FAB! am so impressed mj, you have inspired me to get serious again once DD's cold has cleared.

No time to post a detailed update but just to say I have been putting the SkaterBabe into her cot when she is sleepy but awake and she has been dropping off just fine! I always used to nurse her to sleep and sneak her into the cot sound asleep so am surprised at how accepting she has been.

And this morning at 6 am when she cried - I would normally feed her - but I just rocked her and put her back in the cot and played her mobile and she went back to sleep till 8.30 am!

Hello everybody!

I have carefully read through each and every post since being on here last. There seems to be some progress alongside the relentless ups and downs. Golly; it's a good thing we love our little darlings, ey?

Right, I'm going to be brief because, surprise, surprise, I'm soooo ready to hit the sack. Our LO will be 12 months in three weeks and for the first 10 or so months went down for every day time nap and nighttime in our bed and with a loooooong breastfeed. Now, as I mentioned in my last post the daytime feeds have been cut out for a month now and she naps in her cot. For almost a week now I have breastfed her after her evening bath (yes, we do have a routine for her) and I put her down in her cot awake. If she's fallen asleep on the boob she sure wakes up as I put her down in cot! She complains and figgets and usually settles after twenty to thirty minutes. Most evenings I have had to leave her for around 3 minutes as she refuses to settle if I am lurking(muttering wearily 'mummy's coming back darling') and when I come back my standing indignant baby is ready to fall asleep with a stroke and murmur or two.

Now this is mild progress but of course she usually wakes up around 2 hours later and then I bring her into the bed for the rest of the night.

The next plan after this consistent routine is that in a fortnight I shall continue to feed her, put her down in her cot and feed her if necessary up until 11pm. Then my DH will take over from then until, say 5am. I shall be camping downstairs with the other DCs. It's gonna be tough, but I think it's the best deal. She will be nearly 1 by then. The plan is then to phase out the evening bf once she's got used to that..... if she gets used to that....

Please feel free to give me any advice. We don't mind the co-sleeping (as long as we get the evening/first part of night to ourselves). What I do need is to stop her feeding regularly during the night just becasue she's used to it.

mjovertherainbow your plan to go cold turkey between 11pm and 6am sounds similar to mine. Fingers crossed!

Good night to you all. (I hate it when my DH says 'good night' as I know it's been 7 months since I have had a decent night's sleep. Growl .

No advice jardins, but it sounds like a plan! and it seems to have worked for mj so fingers crossed! The putting her down awake sounds brilliant .

And well done skatergrrl as well, all these success stories are inspiring but also slightly depressing as we are going backwards at the minute.

We had a really rubbish night again last night, we're staying at my parents for a bit while we have work done at our house so it was all a bit new to her but we kept to her usual routine and she actually went down ok and the evening was fairly normal, up every hour or so but just grumbling and wanting a quick cuddle to get back to sleep. Unfortunately it all went wrong after she woke at 10ish, she wouldn't settle in her crib at all - she'd cry, I'd try and settle her with stroking, it wouldn't work so I'd then pick her up - she'd stop immediately and fall asleep, only to wake again a few minutes after being returned to her bed. This went on until about 2.30am, when I moved the crib next to our bed (it was at the foot) and held her hand through the bars - she slept until 5.15 and then wouldn't go back down so ended up in bed with us.

I'm assuming this is just because it was all new and she needed reassurance?? also the crib is normally next to our bed at home so she can see and hear us, presumably that didn't help either. There's not really enough room to have the crib by the bed at my parents' but I think we might have to squeeze it in there for a couple of nights until she gets used to her new surroundings. She still has a cold as well (as do I) which isn't helping. Aaagh, just feel like we're going backwards every day!

Hi All,

It's really encouraging to hear your success story skatergrrl. How do you get her to be sleepy in the first place? My DD is so alert I have always really struggled to get her to be sleepy!

We're a bit like bean at the moment, feel like we're going backwards. Have been away at in-laws and dd didn't settle well so we ended up having her in bed with us (she was in a travel cot on the floor and it was killing my back picking her up and down trying to put her down a bit awake as she kept waking up). Very similar experience to you bean, she was really unsettled at the start of the night and wouldn't settle back in the crib around 9/10ish. We did have some really good nights but I'm not sure if that was down to the co-sleeping. We were back on Saturday and had a good night, with a couple of good stretches 10:30 - 2, 2-430 and all night in her cot (this is very good for us) but Sunday was a disaster and she was in our bed from 1am (without DH who had stormed off to sleep on the sofa after I was horrible to him for waking up DD , and in our bed from 4am last night. I feel like I'm introducing a new problem (not that co-sleeping is a problem, but I didn't intend to start at 5 months, we want her to go into her own room soon)!! But I am so desperate for sleep.

On the plus side, when she wakes up up to an hour after being put down, she can be settled by a hug and back patting rather than feeding, which is an improvement. But PPO seems to have increased her determination to hold on to the nipple! She's anticipating the removal and turning her head so I can't get my finger in! Little menace. On the plus side, I have almost got her to go to sleep from being put down awakeish, but it never quite works. Got to keep plugging away I guess. It is really depressing though after a bad night - I totally feel for you bean - and I have been really worried about the impact of being away on all the work we did before. Spent most of yesterday in tears, had terrible blues and didn't get dressed or open the blinds or eat really, but I think that was partly to do with the argument with DH in the night (which is all sorted out now) and am up and dressed, DD napping and all set for lunch with some NCT friends. This NCSS can take over your life if you let it I think and that's no good either!

Good luck everyone for this week!

Oh MJ just caught up on your post! Well done, that sounds like a dream. Must have been a lot of hard work, especially with two. I bet you enjoyed your well deserved bath

That does sound similar to us newmum, DD definitely sleeps much better in our bed but co-sleeping doesn't really work for us (DH especially as he doesn't sleep soundly when she's in the bed, I must admit I often prefer it as at least I don't have to get out of bed [lazy emoticon]). I've been trying to set a time limit after which it's ok to bring her into bed, although it's quite flexible depending on the night we're having - at the moment I reckon it's ok to give in after 4am but we aim for 5am ideally.

It does sound like you're making progress though, certainly the resettling with a hug is great and it sounds like she's nearly there with being put down semi-awake as well. So you definitely deserved a nice lunch, hope you enjoyed it and managed to talk about something other than sleep, I know what you mean about it taking over your life - I've become a total sleep bore!

Hello all. Haven't posted for a while - DS's sleep has gone a bit weird lately and I'm wondering whether it's the four-month sleep regression setting in. He's been waking up really frequently at night - am completely knackered.

Am persevering with putting him down almost asleep rather than sound asleep. It sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. He doesn't go to sleep on his own - requires lots of shhing - but it's good that he's going to sleep in his cot rather than in our arms.

Newmum, to answer your question, I know, I struggled with the same thing - DS is super-alert and doesn't really 'do' drowsy. I basically do what I usually do to get him to sleep but stop short of him dropping off fully. So I usually rock him until his eyes are closed, then plonk him in the cot. This usually wakes him up a bit and I can then soothe him to sleep there (shhing, nose-stroking, hand on tummy etc). Sometimes he wakes up too much so I pick him up and rock him again and repeat. If he gets upset or I get too impatient [bad mother emoticon] I just rock him to sleep and worry about it again next time ...

Have also had quite a few ding-dongs with DH recently over DS's sleep so I feel your pain there too ...

Hello! It's been a while, mostly because I can't bear the feeling of failure, compounded when I write it here in black and white!

Bub seems fine during the day but at night he's getting a stuffed up nose. This means MANY wakings for me! I'm sleeping in the day just to recoup some of my lost sleep but you know, sometimes you actually want to GO OUT and DO STUFF!!

Last night he woke 6 times, once with a 2.5 hour spell of wakefulness. All he wants to do at night is suck (obviously this helps with the blocked nose somewhat). We've tried steam, air humidifying, decongestant (prescribed by doc), elevating him, Baby Olbas oil, nasal suction (which he HATES). I think that's all options possible (though my German MIL reckons hanging an onion over the bed'll help ) Any others gratefully received!

I'm so exhausted, any resolve has gone out of the windown and now DP's complaining that we have no time together (DS wakes up at least twice between his and our bedtime) and, well, our relationship's suffering horribly. I'm starting to lean towards CC, though the thought of it sends shivers down my spine!!!

Hello ladies. I've been reading through this thread and I think each of you has said something that I can identify with! I hope you don't mind if I join you..?

We have a DS, 14 wks old. He sleeps in a bedside cot next to me so sort of co-sleeping but not quite! Until a couple of weeks ago he was a good sleeper - woke just once for a feed, sometime between 3 and 4am, most nights and even when he woke more often he'd settle very quickly with a feed. We had let him get into a few bad habits e.g. sleeping in our arms a lot in the evenings and for daytime naps. He wasn't a great daytime napper, often waking if put him down and usually only sleeping for one 45 min sleep cycle unless I took him out in his pram (in which case he'd sleep for AGES).

Then at 12 weeks old he slept from 11pm to 6am two nights in a row - bliss! Unfortunately after that everything went wrong... for the last 10 nights he's woken up at least every 1.5 to 2 hours. Often he doesn't want feeding and even if he does feed it doesn't settle him. Sometimes we can settle him quickly with rocking, but at least once each night he's been awake for an hour or more - often involving crying.

So far we have tried the following:

• implemented a bedtime routine. This has given us a few decent evening sleeps (7.30pm - 10.30pm)
• instigated a more structured daytime routine. He is napping better now and usually has about 4 hours of naps per day, split into 2 or 4 naps. I try not to let him sleep after 5pm.
• tried to put him down drowsy but not fast asleep as often as possible. This works occasionally - more often in his pram than in his cot... he seems to have really taken against his little bedside cot, although I'm not sure why.
• had some quiet playtimes in his bedside cot to get him to like it again.

None of this has made the slightest difference to his night time (post 11pm) sleep so far! We're absolutely knackered and I'm really starting to miss my sweet little newborn :(

Anyway, it's great to hear the success stories from those who have them and to those who haven't, I'll be trying to hang in there with you!

Best of luck to everyone for tonight! x

P.S. re controlled crying, I was at a mum and baby group a few weeks ago where a mum of a 4 month old (my baby was probably about 6 weeks at the time) was proudly telling me how she'd sleep trained her DD to sleep through using CC. Apparently it had only taken her a couple of weeks and her DD had "rarely cried for more than an hour or so". I just stared at her... seriously??? You let your beautiful, precious tiny baby cry hard and alone for an hour or more every night (sometimes more than once a night) for TWO WHOLE WEEKS? Surely that simply isn't natural for a mother..?

marking my place to get this on threads I am on so i can sit down with a cuppa and read when I am not so sleep deprived tomorrow!!

Hello everyone waves

Love the book, started a couple pf days ago - had a great first day and night, then all went tits up last night, with 6 month DS waking every 2 hours.

Like all of you, I have a small person who is not sleeping very well at night (wakes every 2 - 3 hours), and who will fall asleep no problem for his naps, only to be awake 20 minutes later.

In order to catch up on naps he is occasionally sleeping on me - not ideal, but hey, got to get those naps in, right?

My question is this to any similar mums, because it's not really covered in the book:

If your baby wakes every two hours, do you feed each time (DS is EBF though started weaning a few weeks ago)? Or tough it out and only feed if it's around the four hour mark? Instead sooth with a dummy?

I'm wondering if I'm encouraging him to wake as he knows he'll get a feed?

As weird as it is to say this, I am so relived I have found this thread and others who are having similar problems.

I feel like I'm on my knees most days!

Thanks for any advice! xx

Hello, I need some motivation and am finding it here! My DD is nearly 8 months old and has been co-sleeping (despite the fact we have a bedside cot). She slept through the night 3 times many, many months ago, and I had high hopes she was going to be a wonderful sleeper. It was not to be - she wakes every 1-2 hours to feed, but (and this is what I'm really gloomy about), until a few weeks ago she would self-settle 2 or 3 nights a week at bedtime and occasionally for naps.

Then, like so many of you, things went backwards. First of all she was unwell with a fever for some days, so I did never-ending bf. Then, my dad became rapidly unwell and died in hospital. DD came everywhere with me and slept in various unfamiliar beds etc, and I quite admit, she and I have got a bit co-dependent as I have only been able to sleep with that comforting slightly anaesthetic bf-hormone thing going on recently.

Anyway, things have to change and reading NCSS made me realise how our noisy 4-yr-old DS' bedtime routine completely dominates the household. DH and I have made some changes to try and benefit DD. I'm just wondering if we've seen some progress - she did a three hour stretch when she first went down the other night, which enabled me to have some sort of evening - total bliss. She's eating a lot more solids recently but I don't think that has made any difference.

I think my goals for this week are: decide whether to move her cot away from our bed or try and get her to sleep in it with the side down right next to us. And to do something about positive sleep associations - I think she really dislikes restrictive clothing and always gets upset by PJs and sleeping bag on going on - not sure what can be done about that, but I'm trying to slip the bag on with her sitting up, with a little success.

Anyway, apologies this is a rambly post. So many of the things that you've mentioned are so familiar, it's great not to feel alone.

Hello whenwillisleepagain, very sorry about your Dad - trying to cope with sleep deprivation at the same time must be truly awful .

How long have you been co-sleeping, did she sleep in the cot in the past? I tend to lean towards the softly softly approach of making gradual changes (ie move to cot, then side up, then move it away a bit etc) but I wonder sometimes if that just prolongs the agony. WRT positive sleep associations, does she have any cuddly toys or music that you could use to counteract the PJs/sleeping bag (sorry if you've already thought of all this)? Best of luck, you're definitely not alone ((hugs)).

In answer to your question about feeding at night vino, it totally depends on how knackered I am! But I did have a week or so of being tough and not feeding on every awakening (rocking instead)(I went for 3 rather than 4 hours but DD doesn't tend to feed well in the day so I was worried she was genuinely hungry) and it did seem to make a small difference. However, I've been a bit slack recently and taken to feeding her if she doesn't respond immediately to rocking or stroking, just because it's so much quicker. I was thinking of trying to introduce more of a schedule for feeds (which I know is contrary to the whole feeding on demand thing, but the trouble is she doesn't really demand during the day so I offer a lot which I think leads to snacking and is a bit of a vicious circle), which would help me to be clearer about when I was supposed to feed her and when not during the night (and more confident that she's fed well during the day). I know friends who do feeds at roughly the same time every day and it seems to work for them - does anyone else do this?

Although sometimes on a really bad night I start to think about some kind of CC ali, just the idea of letting DD cry for an hour at a time, even for just one night, just makes me feel all anxious. I'm convinced it must be possible to crack this without that kind of trauma!

Hi All!

Thanks CountBapula I have been putting DD down more awake and she is ALMOST dropping off from really pretty much awake, I then usually have to do another PPO but she is going down into her cot more awake than she was. I'm sure that soon she will start dropping off earlier in the process.

I think that this has made a difference as apart from earlier this week when she was bunged up, she has been sleeping MUCH better (and I've realised that her bad nights are far far far better than the bad nights we were having before Christmas). Last night she went down at 6pm, coughed herself awake at 9pm and was very easily settled (5 minutes max), then went till 1:30 and didn't get up again till 5! I heard her snuffling around about 3 but she must have gone back to sleep herself. This is the best she has EVER slept. The night before was a lot better as well. I'm really hoping we have turned a corner and the good nights when we were away we not just because we were co-sleeping. Fingers crossed!

WhenwillIsleepagain so so sorry to hear about your Dad. I can't imagine dealing with the sleep deprivation on top of a bereavement. Sleep deprivation makes everything seem very black at the best of times and really messes with your emotions - I hope you have some help at the moment to get you through. You should be pleased with a three hour stint - it is definite progress and I'm sure you will be seeing more once things begin to settle down.

Poor Zombie, sounds like you're having a hard time! Hope that DS's cold gets better soon. When they're ill they just don't sleep well regardless, I'm sure that once he's better things will start to improve. We've been using a karvol vapouriser and junior olbas oil which seems to have worked the last couple of nights.

Vino I try to settle DD briefly without a feed by picking her up and swaying and patting her back but if she roots I just feed her so we can sleep. I figure if I can break the feed to sleep association she will stop waking up so frequently, but until I do, I just have to go with it. I do the PPO technique every time though, for every night waking and every nap.

Sorry for long post everyone. Have a good weekend all

Hi everyone :)

Newmum sounds like you're really seeing some progress. Fantastic! Are you south or north London? I'm in Streatham now but spent much of my life in north London (West Hampstead/Hampstead/Garden Suburb).

whenwillisleepagain so sorry to hear about your dad :( I completely understand what you mean about the BFing hormone. Since my DS has stopped feeding at every waking I struggle to get back to sleep even when he does! I agree with bean - I'd make the changes to your DD's sleeping arrangements as gradual as possible so that it's easy for her to become comfortable with each step.

Vino It's become obvious that my DS doesn't always want feeding when he wakes at night, so I've stopped offering it as soon as he wakes up. Now I try rocking and it usually becomes obvious fairly quickly whether that is going to work or not, if not then I offer a feed. The book recommends (for co-sleepers, but I'm sure it could also apply to others) that you try reducing the length of feeds using PPO - i.e. only feeding while they are sucking strongly and removing the nipple as soon as they go into the fluttery comfort sucking. If your DC relies on feeding to get to sleep you might find it easier to try that technique rather than suddenly stopping some of the feeds...

Zombie I feel for you... the 2.5 hr awake period must have been an absolute killer. Not sure about the onion though! Hope it gets a lot better soon.

bean I agree with you re CC. I think it's actually all about 'control' - the parent's need to be back in control again rather than 'creating a rod for their own back' (how many times have I heard that phrase??) To my mind, you create that rod when you choose to have children! Our job as parents is to protect and nurture our children so that they feel safe in this otherwise scary world, not to teach them that no-one cares if they cry...

As for us, last night was actually pretty good - he slept from 7.30pm until 10.30 (I had to resettle him once in that time, but he settled quickly). I fed him at 10.30 then once he'd finished feeding I rocked him and and put him in his cot drowsy but not asleep and he fell asleep on his own. He woke at 3am and was rooting as soon as I picked him up so I fed him but then I very naughtily fell asleep while he was feeding - oops!! (the first time that has happened for ages!) I woke up at 4am and tried to put him back in his cot but he woke up and was rooting again so I put him on the other boob, did the PPO and put him in his bed drowsy. Again he fell asleep on his own. RESULT! He woke at 6am crying, not interested in feeding. Took about 20 mins to rock him back to sleep... then he woke for the day at 7.30am. Really wish I knew what was making him cry in the night... glad it was only at 6am though, not at 2am or 4am as it has been on previous nights!

Sorry for the loooong post. Hope all goes well for you all tonight!

Spoke too soon about having a good night... last night was rubbish! DS woke more times than I can remember.

Between 1.30am and 3am (or thereabouts) he was really crying hard. If I picked him up and rested him against my shoulder and walked around with him he'd stop and eventually fall asleep, but nothing else helped. I put him down a few times, sometimes drowsy and sometimes completely asleep, but he woke up within a few minutes each time and cried again. I'm starting to wonder whether he's in some pain, maybe wind..? I've got Infacol from the chemist today so I'll give that a try. The chemist also said to be really careful about winding him after each feed, so there will definitely be no falling asleep on the boob for us!We'll see if that helps...

Hope you're all enjoying the weekend :)

Sorry to hear it didn't last ali, but hopefully one semi-decent night recharged the batteries a little bit! And hopefully the infacol will work if it is wind, it sounds like it could be if he's happier when he's against your shoulder. DD went through a phase of crying in her sleep and waking herself up which was a pain, but I think that was probably wind as well. I recall being more vigilant about burping her (eventually realised just gently easing her up against my shoulder worked without waking her too much).

Not too bad a night here last night, I think she was up 4 times between 6.30pm and 7.30am, so a definite improvement. She's teething now though so seems to like falling asleep chewing on my finger . Tonight didn't start well, we've had a busy day of motorway driving and a christening party and she was still wide awake but exhausted at bedtime, finally crashing at 8.30ish. Am slightly apprehensive about the night ahead! Hope everyone has a good one!

It's all gone quiet on here! Hopefully that means all your babies have started sleeping through :)

Bean I hope Sunday night was better than you anticipated... My DS also prefers my fingers to his own. I've been trying to peresuade him that his are tasty too!

We're doing ok... not brilliant, but not as bad as before. A lot less crying, so hopefully the Infacol and burping regime is helping, but still waking up 2-3 times in the night. My main problem at the moment is that when I feed DS at night (which I do if it's been more than 4 hours or so since the last feed, not more often than that) I quite often fall asleep and wake up an hour or so later with him sleeping on my lap... doh! He then invariably wakes up when I try to put him back in his cot. If he does I feed him on the other side and REALLY try not to fall asleep again! If I manage to stay awake I don't let him feed 'til he's asleep, I burp him and I usually manage to get him to go down with a bit of shhh-ing, or sometimes I have to get up and rock him until he's just dropping off. I'm thinking that I might have to start getting out of bed to feed him. Urk :(

Hi Alikat,

We were doing a lot better, but last few nights not been good, have been co-sleeping in the spare room to get through! Now I have discovered how much easier it is not to get out of bed to feed, it's tempting to keep doing it, but she's supposed to be going into her own room this weekend! I think the reason for the recent deterioration is that her teeth are really bothering her.... that or I have got lax recently because she had improved. 2-3 times a night is pretty good! We were down to twice a night, once around 9/10pm and once at 1:30am but last night it was 7:45, 8:45, 11, 1:30, 3:30, 5........ let's just hope it is teething! I am in North London btw, Highbury/Stoke Newington, but planning on moving soon, guess I will have to change my name (maybe I can be more imaginative next time .

I completely agree with you Newmum - feeding in bed is almost too easy! I've brought DS into bed with me at some point during the night quite a few times recently as well... it's so difficult to follow through with any kind of plan in the middle of the night when you just want some sleep!

When I say 2-3 wakings in the night I mean wakings after I've gone to bed. DS is only 15 weeks so I generally just go to bed whatever time he wakes for his last feed of the day, which is usually between 10 and 11.30pm and we get up around 7/7.30am (or whenever he wakes up after that!)

Last night DS slept from 7pm until 7.45pm in the car one our way home from visiting someone, then 8.15pm until 11.15pm. I fed him and it then took until 12.30am to get him back to sleep with wakings at 2am, sometime after 3, and 5.45. He woke again at 7.15 so we got up and had breakfast but he was ready for another nap at 8.30, so I took a nap with him until 10am

I'm being a bit rubbish with the no-cry sleep plan... we do usually have a pretty good bedtime routine (last night being the exception!) but apart from that nothing I've tried is really working. I was getting pretty good at putting him down when he was very sleepy, but that has now completely stopped working... he now needs to be fast asleep or he wakes up as soon as he touches the sheets. And PPO doesn't seem to work at all at the mo... he goes from full on sucking to fast asleep without any in between stages! Oh well, at least he isn't crying so much - I guess that's a result :)

Hope everyone else is doing well and having a good weekend!

I think it's more that I'm losing the plot than that DD's sleep has improved, Ali !

I don't feel like we have a sleep plan any more, naps have gone totally to pot (seem to be averaging 2x 30 minute ones at the moment which I'm sure is nowhere near enough) so she's totally overtired by bedtime and is up and down like a yo-yo, falling asleep at the breast or in my arms then waking the second she's put down. I'm still more or less doing the PPO but with no discernible results and she seems harder to soothe without picking up now. Aaagh!

And we've gone from no co-sleeping at all to giving in about 3am (or even earlier depending on how the night is going), which I'm sure is encouraging snacking.

I can't decide what to do next but I definitely need a plan, at the moment I feel like I'm just drifting along in a sleepless haze and that things will never improve. Any ideas??!

bean How old is your DD now? About 6 months? 2 x 30 mins of naps does sound rather short... I also have the No-Cry Nap Solution and I used some of the tips from that book when DS decided to give up napping (at about 8-10 weeks old). He now takes pretty good naps (usually 3 per day and a total of between 3.5 and 5 hours) BUT I'm not really sure that the improvement is a result of anything I've done - it could just as easily be because he's now a few weeks older!

That said, the thing that really helps my DS nap well is taking him out in the pram when he's tired. I like him to have a long nap at lunchtime so I almost always go out around midday. At first he'd wake up when I came home (even if it was only 12.30) so I used to stay out for a couple of hours. Now I can pop to the shops for 10-15 mins by which time he's fast asleep enough that he'll stay asleep for a couple of hours after I get home (like now ). Not sure whether that will help with an older baby, but it might be worth a try...

Hopefully (she says, despite the fact that it hasn't worked for us!) if you get the naps sorted the night time sleep will fall into place too..? Fingers crossed for you :)