Those who have survived controlled crying....

[barbie1]

Can you please tell me how?

DD is 7.5 months and had never been a good sleeper.

She was crawling at 4 months, standing at 5 months and almost walking now. The doctors tell me she is forward and that she finds it difficult to switch off

We live abroad so have no family or close friends to help, hence having to give cc a go for all our sakes

So here we are 3 weeks in, i put her to bed awake, she cries, stands up and paces the cot. I leave. Go back, lie her down and it starts again.

We went from crying for 2 hours (on and off, never longer than 10 mins before i checked her) to her letting me lie her down and patting her off to sleep after about 20 to 30 mins of crying.

Never once has she just laid down and gone to sleep.

She naps well in the day, has a routine for bed etc etc.

How can i encourage her to lie down and not scream for hours???

I know cc is a highly emotive subject and i don't wish to be flamed for doing this... I really do think its the only option i have left now.

barbie - I am also an expat and hear you! I remember calling the sleep clinic and crying down the phone to them. My ability to handle anything just disappeared and I became an emotional wreck. If you can afford it, I'd give the sleep clinic a shot. My approach was that at that point I had nothing to lose and everything to gain...

knobbingnowt i agree, we did do pure cc in the beginning but it never seemed to fully work, as the weeks went on i got more and more tired and decided to do a more softly softly approach and then somewhere over the last 3 nights it has all go to pot, hence the desperate post last night.

Im going to hold off the cc until dd is a little older, hopefully by then it wont be needed.

What is the gradual withdrawal technique?

Final message from me; i do wonder if part of the reason the sleep clinic worked for us was that we needed a plan we could believe in. Like you we had tried a lot of things and we had lost confidence in ourselves and any of the techniques we were trying. We seemed to lurch from one technique to another in the wild hope that this one might finally be the answer. When someone gave us a plan, that we both signed up to, based on research and experience, we stuck to it. I'm sure this confidence and consistency played a role in sorting out the sleep problems for us.

I would ring just for an initial consultation. It sounds like you've tried so many things and it's all getting too much. I almost consulted one but things got better. As you say, you've nearly crashed a car and need a solution! A professional will probably be able to give a better targeted one?

www.sleepytot.com/sleepytot_community/articles/baby_sleep_training__gradual_withdrawal.phtml

some ideas here, GWM is basically sitting with whilst she goes to sleep, minimal interaction no eye contact etc then as she gets more relaxed at sleeping you move further and further away till your outside the room, tkes a while but she shouldnt cry so much.

I think Amazon could probably post that book to you abroad if you did order it?

I agree with knobbingnowt you're doing too many different techniques. Co-sleep as you say again, gather your strength and then try gradual withdrawal. It's hard to think clearly or see the wood from the trees when you're exhausted.

Or try a sleep clinic instead?

She sounds like she simply doesn't know how to self settle when she comes into a lighter part of her sleep cycle.

teaandcupcakes a friend has ordered the book, and will read and email me the tips until my mum can bring out my own copy in a few weeks.

DD can self settle when she feels like it sometimes, just not all the time. I think maybe a combination of trying to walk/ teething etc is playing on her mind too.

Sleep clinic is looking to be the way forward. We will wait until my mum comes over and if on her departure things arent any better it will be the route we will go down.

barbie1, we moved gradually out of the room, inch by inch, over several weeks, at start of bedtime. Then, during the night, my husband did more of the 'going to checks' so that they wouldn't automatically want to be fed when I appeared. That seemed to break the link between waking up and having to be fed. They were eating quite a bit by seven or eight months (weaning back then was encouraged at four months, so we'd had more time on solids).

Knobbingknowt's post is a good description!

I'm glad you're getting some good tips on this thread.

I am struggling to understand what this issue is at 7.5 months. I understand that she takes a while to go to sleep but she's your only child. Who is sleep deprived with a child that sleeps? Fair enough if it takes a long time, but an hour is not that long she's still asleep by 10pm then you get enough sleep. Is there something else going on? Because you are sounding seriously deluded and overwhelmed by something pretty inconsequential. I wouldn't think there's anything on your baby's mind either, she's 7 months and you've probably unsettled her by trying to force her to self settle with no real resolve.

Back off and accept that not all babies smile and drift off to sleep but not too many parents consider it such an inconvenience until they're one unless they have other children that are disrupted or they are constantly waking through the night.

I know it's harsh but you need to take a step back.

posie Im not saying that my child has to be an angel and go to sleep on her own or sleep through the night, far from it. I just want her to get a solid chunk of sleep for her sake. She is happier after a better sleep, less likely to fall over so much and eats better too. This is fact.

I can't get her to sleep by rocking, or patting because she wont lie down/ stay still long enough to let me do this. If she did i would be more than happy to sit with her for as long as it takes.

The only way to get her to sleep without any tears is to feed her, but as i said she woke 7 or so times between the hours of 7 and 10.30pm, do you honestly think i can feed her this many times? Not to mention a further 4 times throughout the night?

Im not deluded but i do admit to being depressed. I have had one hour away from her since she was born, i'm worried about her hurting herself because i cant react quick enough, worried about having a real accident in the car because i'm so tired my senses don't react quick enough..need i go on?

The max amount of sleep im getting in one go is 90 mins before i have to go and comfort her, sleep deprivation is hard and im desperate for more sleep for both of us, thats all. I didn't ask to be judged.

PosieParker Mon 11-Oct-10 13:36:35

Back off and accept that not all babies smile and drift off to sleep but not too many parents consider it such an inconvenience until they're one unless they have other children that are disrupted or they are constantly waking through the night.

There you go, you said it yourself, it is an inconvenience because she is waking constantly through the night.

I've admitted cc hasnt worked for us (our gp was the one to advice this in the first place after the 4th visit to him) so what i need now is ideas to help my dd settle to sleep.

AHHHHHH....you didn't say, or I didn't read, that she was waking constantly through the night. Completely different picture now!!

So, is she tired? Does she get enough fresh air?

Tbh my last two babies didn't settle well through the night until they were over a year, both had reflux and both co slept. (I have four children) What about a dummy? My ds3 took one at 8ish months and saved my life! Or putting a bottle of expressed/formula in the cot?

Sorry if I sounded harsh but I did think it was rather a fuss about nothing settling her for a long time, as opposed to her waking constantly through the night.

Do you wrap her up tightly? that can make them feel more settled.

posie she wont be wrapped she is such a spirited baby To be honest it's too hot in Dubai to wrap her...

The fresh air thing is a big issue here, it's too hot to go out for much of the day but we have started to give her time in the garden once the sun starts to fade (about 4.30) and we take her swimming a lot. As the temp drops over the next few weeks we will once again do more out door things.

She refuses a bottle as does she a dummy.

Yes she is tired, she needs a nap 2.15 hours after being awake. She tends to be ok at naps, will nap easily in the car or pram if out, most of her naps co inside with a feed so i put her in the cot semi awake and will pat her to sleep.

Its the night wakings im having real trouble with, like i said it's hard to feed her every 45/90 mins. If i dont feed her though she refused to lie down and the crying starts. If only she would give in and lie down i could comfort her.

Hmm....perhaps she's not sleeping enough in the day and is then way over tired at night, at her age I would be putting her down for a nap twice for a couple of hours each time.

She's too young to refuse a feed, I think, as she's looking for comfort and/or milk. What's the temp in her room?

she has 4 naps a day, 45 mins each. Or sometimes 3 naps with one being 1.30 hours. She is quite vocal when she is tired and gives clear signs so off she goes to bed....I would love her to have a longer lunch time nap but whatever i do i cant encourage her to do so. Do you really think she isnt sleeping enough?

I hated not feeding her, but my stupid doctor told me she should be going through the night by now and not to feed her until at least 4 hours since the last feed had passed
Guess it's time to find a new doctor...

Her room is set at 25 degrees, but it feels cool as its AC. The guide here is to be anything from 22 to 25. This is the most comfortable temp.

Well I remember a friend being told the same....I don't know but maybe instead of short cat naps throughout the day you could try for a settled one or two in bed?

I have spent the last week in the villa to ensure all her naps are in her cot, makes no difference. 45 mins later on the dot she is wide awake giggling and singing

In all other aspects she is perfect, just the sleep.

Im going to keep a sleep diary as from now and if in a months time we are still having problems we will consult a sleep or whatever they call themselves now a days.

DD is in bed now, fed to sleep as per normal....fingers crossed she goes longer than 45 mins.

Does she eat enough? Drink enough?

And definitely keep a sleep diary, if nothing else it will be great contraception!!

here lies the problem...at 7.5 months she is 14lb's and in the 5th percentile. She is so active that she is losing weight, and if it continues will drop another curve which the doctors are worried about. If she has a bad night sleep she wont eat so well, and if she doesn't eat so well she has a bad nights sleep! Im stuck in a vicious circle.

I still bf her on demand, she has plenty of finger food as snacks throughout the day and 3 meals. How much she eats at each meal depends once again on the sleep.

I'm never having another baby...ever!

45 mins since being out to bed and.......she is awake. Doh.

Enough heavy food, protein? I would be ensuring she has meat, scrambled eggs, the sort of food to get her through!!

Poor you.....I remember what it was like to be so tired you feel like crying all day!! Try to use your DH more when he's around, have mini goals like personal grooming, long bath, whole chapter of a book uninterrupted that sort of thing will keep you sane.

I wouldn't bother with three meals plus snacks - try and go for 5 small meals instead - so the two "snacks" are more filling. E.g. hummus sarnies, avocado with pitta, yoghurts etc. She'll also need loads of carbs for all that energy she's burning - best things are potatoes, rice and pasta.

I found that DS needs quite a high proportion of carbs to protein. Too much protein can make babies unsettled and they'll look for milk to balance things out.

hi barbie

( my dd's favourite doll!)

My advice is simple - stop lying her down!

You will get a lot of "oh not cc" on this website. No one takes it lightly and Im sure you are desperate as most mums are when they contemplate it.

I did it for my ds at 8 mths and my dd at 6 mths. My experience is the earlier the better as it's quicker. My dd was like yours - early crawler and walker. I found actually lying her down was reinforcing her wakefulness and prevented her from going down herself. They are pefectly capable of lying down to sleep alone.

I would suggest going in at the usual lengthening intervals and just stroke the head and say shhh night night and leave.

For the record, both my kids ( now 2 and 4) are good sleepers and incredibly emotionally robust and emotionally intelligent so in my anecdotal case it has not done them any harm.

Big hugs and kisses x

CC at six months, that's before a child has anything other than needs.....

I find it incredibly sad that some people don't post in order to be helpful but to voice an opinion.