Breastfeeding to sleep

[Tatties]

Hello, I am new to mumsnet and am looking for a bit of moral support! My 5mth old ds is a little charmer but is high maintenence and a complete nightmare to get to sleep. In the day I have to rock him in the pram or bf lying down in a darkened room. At night now I bf to sleep as putting him down awake has become increasingly difficult. He is up a good few times every night - not sure whether he is actually hungry but bf usually settles him. I guess I don't really want advice as I think we have tried everything to settle him without a feed, I s'pose I just want a bit of reassurance that I am not alone. Instead of just drifting off to sleep when he is tired he just cries, and I feel like a failure because as his mummy I should just be able to just pick him up and calm him down with a cuddle - but that never happens! Does anyone feel like they are cheating when they bf to calm baby down? I don't know why I feel like that - maybe it's reading too many books like BW & GF that put unnecessary pressure on baby settling himself.. Sorry this is a bit rambling but there's a lot going on in my head at the mo - would love to hear from anyone else who has gone through this or is in the same boat..

It is also so convenient if you have a child that breastfeeds to sleep and you need to go away somewhere. My son never cares where we are, he always drops off just the same, because it's the familiarity of me and his milk that he wants, not his own bed and room etc.

how old is dd lockets? missed that?!!!

hattie05, i added the no formula bit becuase tattie (or others) might have thought that they might sleep better with formula or when friends tell them baby sleeps great it gets put down to formual at night, at some point and be tempted to go that route, whereas imo its nt necessary. bigger picture.a breastfeed can sleep for long periods at night - tattie might feel she'll never reach that point.

there seems to be a perception that breastfeding mothers dont have a choice not to feed, and here it seems tattie needs a wee break from the babys feeding and some sleep.

nothing wrong with breastfeeding to sleep but if they keep waking its not really that enjoyable for mum, is it?

As quoted earlier I breastfed all mint to sleep. For me the evening was the best time of the day IYSWIM
I loved sitting donw with my freshly bathed and dressed baby, breastfeeding away till they fell asleep. There is nothing more lovely IMO that a sleeping baby at your breast. I loved watching their little mouths flicker on and off when they were asleep but hadn't let go of the nipple. Ahhhh.

As for them not being able to sleep when they stopped feeding, that was not a problem for me. When I dropped feeds throughout the day, they would just go tosleep without a feed in their pram/cot.

I honestly think fat too much is made of this supposed assocaition of breastfeeding to sleep. I am not denying it can be a problem in older babies, but for babies under 9 months I think it is natural for them.

There is a danger that taking them off the breast awake means that you are stopping a feed before they have had enough hind milk which they gey mainly when 'flutter sucking' at the end of a feed.

Tatties - just feed away without guilt

I haven't read the other messages but just wanted to say I always calmed dd1 with a feed and always got her off to sleep with one too day or night. I wasn't working, only had her to worry about and enjoyed feeding her so this worked well for us. She didn't begin to sleep through until 10 months, but I didn't mind so that was OK. B/f can be a comfort as well as a means to get food IMO. It is definately not cheating IMO. I always gave her a 'comfort suck' after jabs etc. I stopped b/f at 12 months and the bedtime feed was the last one to be dropped but it was no problem at all. DD1 was still able to 'settle herself'. GF made me feel like a bit of a failure too. My baby was not a GF one and I couldn't seem to just extract the bits that did work. She never took a bottle (despite my best efforts over numerous weeks) and so this was the way it was for us. HTH a bit. Take care.

Have just been reading Dr Sears - it all makes complete sense. Some time ago when I was going through a another difficult phase getting ds to sleep I just thought to myself, right I'll just lie down on the bed with him and bf until he falls asleep then transfer him to his cot (still in our room), instead of putting him down awake, as I always ended up bf again anyway. I mentioned this to a friend who said, but you don't want to get into the habit of doing that. At the time I thought she was right, the goal being to get him to sleep independently. But I have since gone back to my original idea because I think it is more important for him not to associate bedtime with crying than it is not to associate it with bf. You are right - why should he have to go to sleep on his own?

Re. bedtime - normally bath & feed between 5.30-7pm so I don't think I am putting him to bed too late. During the day he witll normally have a few naps, max 1hr each.

I think part of my problem of bf as a cure for everything stems from me having thrush right at the beginning which wasn't diagnosed until my 6wk check - ouch. Midwives & HV just kept saying it was normal for bf to hurt at the start and promised me it would get better. As I was in so much pain I just longed for him to only bf when he was hungry and settle with a cuddle but he never would. At that point I was sometimes having to feed him non-stop for 2hrs before bedtime, so we reluctantly gave him a dummy to give me a break. It was magic at getting him to sleep for a while but then at 3mths he decided he wasn't having it any more! So back to square 1.. I know bf isn't just for food, it's also for comfort but sometimes it would be nice if he could give my boobs a break and respond to other forms of comforting!!

BTW everyone's comments have been really helpful and encouraging, thank you!

I've fed mine to sleep whenever they want it and they all go off to sleep on their own without any problems now. I would ignore the comments about making-a-rod-for-your-own-back blah-de-blah, and do what comes best and easiest for you.

For me that was feeding them to sleep much of the time because I'd rather do that than let them cry.
Equally, though, I know many mums who prefer to let them cry and say that after a few times, they'll learn to put themselves to sleep.

Do what works best for you and I agree about throwing away the books.

Tipex, how old is your ds now? I want to know when it will get better! Actually I feel better already. Despite everything I do think that bf is very special, and I'm sure I will miss it. I intend to bf as long as poss. Has anyone come up against accusations of whipping out the breast any time baby whimpers? Like "he's not hungry, he's just got wind"?! (I will go mad if one more person tells me my baby's got wind .) I haven't exactly, but anticipate it when I go on holiday with in-laws who have never breastfed..

Why is it every little murmer a baby makes seems to be traced to wind?

I haven't had time to read all this but, if it's any help to anyone here... I bf both of my kids to sleep, I lay with them, rocked them, cuddled them, co-slept etc etc.

They are 2 and 3 now. I put them both to bed at 7 and, after stories and cuddles, they fall straight to sleep on their own.

I actually did get told I was 'making a rod for my own back' by someone once too. It's a load of bollocks as far as I was concerned. You knows what's best for your babies.

And enjoy; I can't believe I think this now after all the trials and tribulations of bf but I do miss the sleepy evening feeds. (BTW, when I was still in the baby stage, I would have wanted to punch someone who said that to me )

I've always put mine to the breast when they're uypset. They bf for comfort as well as hunger. Don't listen to anyone. You feed your little one as much as you and he want.

spidermama is right, you are settling him with a cuddle, really. babies like to suck. They want comforting and why should you deny him comfort?
you're not a failure, he is just very bonded to you and finds you very comforting.
I still bf dd at bed time (though not to sleep) and she is (cough) two years older than your ds... at some point (?about 7/8 months? hard to recall now) she started to go into her cot awake and drift off by herself; she will go to sleep without it though and has done on many occasions when other people put her to bed.
really, I would try not to worry.

I always fed mine to sleep. If they woke in the night I would usually bring them in to bed with me and lie down to feed them. Often we both fell asleep during feed. Stopped feeding at about 8 months - switched to formula (gasp, shock, horror), whereupon they started to sleep through. Ds had a bit of a blip at about 2, when he would wake up and cry in the night. Dh and I took it in turns to go in and see him. Again, we invariably fell asleep in bed with him. Lasted about two months, and then back to bed at 7.30, sleep 'til morning. They both (now 4 and 18 months) go to bed at 7.30, fall asleep by themselves and sleep until morning. MIL, who was HORRIFIED at bf behaviour, now extols their virtues as well-trained children! Horses for courses I say. Friends have done the whole Gina Ford thing and loved it. I cannot believe there is an absolute right or wrong way. If it works for you and the baby, then keep going!

Hmm, have just re-read my post. For "if they woke in the night" read "on the three or four occasions they woke in the night"! That's why I lay down to feed. Too shattered to stay upright!

Tatties hope you've been reassured by the posts here.

I BF ds to sleep for a year - all naps, at bedtime, and at least once at night. Sometimes I longed for a break and sometimes I went through periods of being shattered but I'm glad with hindsight that I did what I did and how I did it.

Around 13 months I started putting him down for daytime naps without a BF..we just cuddled up in his room & read a story beforehand. It took a couple of days that's all, for him to understand what was happening (and he cried for a minute or two when I left the room), but after that he seemed to be fine with it. Now he will sleep anywhere, in any cot, as long as he's got his comfort blanket. He chats to himself for a little while before he nods off.

At bedtime he still has a BF but he no longer falls asleep feeding, and I think he would go to bed and settle happily without it, but he obviously enjoys it, so I'm happy to carry on for a while longer (he is 18 months).

This rod for your own back thing is a complete myth IME!

two years of breastfeeding reduces your breast cancer risk by about 25% cent -that might help with the 'guilt'.

Tatties, if it really bothers you feeding him to sleep, read The No Cry Sleep Solution, by Elizabeth Pantley - I think this is pretty good at breaking the association between sleep and feeding in a more painless manner. However, I personally don't think there is any problem with feeding to sleep - I did it with ds1 and even now, my dd3, who can put herself to sleep, wakes up in the night to feed for comfort (and does it during the day as well). It is what you feel comfortable with that is important imo, not what Gina Ford and Tracy Hogg et al prescribe.

Tatties - Something you posted really struck a chord with me. Even when my dd1 was tiny (8 weeks old) my MIL used to imply I fed too much and too often and she was a b/f counsellor (a good few years ago now though). If she was holding dd1 and she began to cry I would want to feed her but MIL would hang on to her trying everything to stop her crying (even saying thats it have a good cry ) eventually giving her to me for a feed which of course stopped her crying. I found it all quite stressful as it was my first dd and I hated to hear her cry if I knew there was something I could do about it. Good Luck with your visit. Just stick to your convictions and what you are comfortable with. I didn't care that they thought I was making life hard for myself. I did what I was happy with, it was my job, and I certainly have no regrets. Poor dd2 feeds little and often as I am now chasing a toddler around too, but she is also a bit more discerning and the boob doesn't always settle/calm her like it did dd1. If you have someting that works hang on to it.

aloha, that 2yrs can be over all your children, it doesnt have to be 24mths in a row, averaging 12mths for 2 children and maybe 8mths if you had 3, minimum.

Ohh cooperoo! Poor you. I used to hate it when people wouldn't give me back my baby when she was crying. I used to have to prize her away.

Yes, why do people not give them back? I will always offer the baby back unless I am helping the mum to try and comfort the baby ie if she has her hands full with toddler etc. I am more relaxed with dd2 but I do remember how upset I got with dd1. We live in Cyprus though and although we were back in the UK for four weeks in the summer no one really got a chance to 'hang on' to dd2 for long as dd1 was demanding (and getting) all the attention lol.

I don't think there is anything wrong with bf to sleep, but there are various people, books, etc.. who tell us that it is wrong. I know you don't have to listen to them and go with your instincts but they can't help but influence you and colour your feelings slightly towards what you are doing. It's because we all only want the best for our children and the thought that I could be doing the "wrong" thing upsets me. And this opinion often comes from people who are very much pro-bf. On one of my first days at home with ds the midwife who came to see me said, "don't let him suck too long after he's finished feeding/fallen asleep; don't hold him for too long once he's fallen asleep otherwise he'll get used to it.." At the time I did what she said, she knows more than me, and I was exhausted and just desperate for sleep myself. But looking back I really miss not holding him more while he was asleep, I really don't think it would have made any difference to his sleeping habits. I think it's his temperament which influences the way he sleeps.

And books like BW really play on your insecurities, you desperately want to do things the "right" way for your child and when your brain is like mush, you feel like you don't have a clue what you are doing and you are bursting into tears every 10mins, it is something to cling on to. I read the book when I was pregnant and I thought everything made sense, it felt great to be let in on these "secrets" of how to calm your baby. But she doesn' t tell you what to do when these methods, lovely as they may sound, don't work!