Implementing a routine with 3.9 year old

[Beccaroll]

My little girl has no routine! No bedtime or anything, when she does go to bed she normally sleeps very very well indeed but with nursery school and a new baby coming up I need to get into a routine.

The reason I havent implemented so far is that me and her dad are seperated and at the moment she spends 3 nights a week there and whilst there gets NO DISCIPLINE whatsover so I find its like fighting a losing battle when she isnt receiving consistency.

Anyway....Im expecting baby number 2 in 3 weeks and she will be home every night during the week and only going to her dads once at weekends so I now feel more able to set a routing - does anyone have any tips for starting a routine and bed time for a nearly 4 year old who has never had one and has often been allowed up late?

I was thinking of a clock and a start chart to help in the early days.
Becca
xxx

Hi Beccaroll. My tip would be to consider NOT going cold turkey. Suddenly putting her to bed at seven or eight will be a huge shock and she'll probably be a nightmare if she's not tired enough... I think you should expect some protest from her even if all goes well but I think it's important that she's as tired as possible. It may be quite hard for you to stay firm with bedtime if it's not what you've done before and if she's stubborn and wide awake as well there could be real fireworks! The first night I'd wait till she falls asleep and note the time. Then the next night actively put her to bed at this time. Decide on a bedtime routine- pjs, story, lights out and stick to it. Expect possible protest and deal with it as calmly and firmly as possible. If she gets up return her to bed and try not to get into a discussion or argument with her. I find that a single word "Sleep!" works quite well with mine when they're trying it on at bedtime. Crying is harder to deal with but if you're really clear and hang onto the fact that it's going to benefit your daughter and the whole family if she gets more sleep it might be easier to cope if she is very upset at first.

After you've cracked this first night of actively setting her bedtime slowly bring it forward by ten or twenty minutes per night until she's going at a time you're happy with. I really think that if you can stand the initial protests it will work but do expect it to be v hard work at first. HTH.

(Gosh- it sounds so very simple as I write it! You wouldn't think my two were chattering and jumping in the background 55 mins after bedtime would you? They do keep out of my hair after bedtime and fall asleep eventually, honest!)

Thanks for the great advice...

Reading your post made me realise a few things - she isnt always necessarily in bed late - its the inconsistency that spoils things - for example when she is home with me she does go to bed at about 8pm but invariably is later than that falling asleep. Its not so much resisting "bedroom" time but the falling asleep that is the problem. She doesnt really protest too much usually she has a bedtime bottle (whole other thread!) and often asks for refills to play for time......
I also admit to being alot to blame as she is such a good sleeper, if she is falling asleep late say 9-10pm she often doesnt wake up before 9.30 which being heavily preggers is heaven for me but wont do her much good when she has to get up early for nursery again when I go back to work.

hmmmm - lots to think about I think

Becca
xxx

Just wanted to ressurect this thread - I still havent got her in a routine and I really need to and would love some support while Im doing it.

Baby will be 4 weeks on Sunday and Im starting to think of a bedtime routine for him starting soon. Seems ridiculous that my newborn will have a bedtime but my nearly 4 year old doesnt!!

Im stuck in a vicious circle - shes not tired early enough to go to bed because she has slept in late - Im too tired in the morning after night feeds to get her up early enough to ensure she is tired enough later.......etc .etc

One other thing (major confession here) she has a bottle to go off to sleep - something that gets me so down and I NEED to do something about it - I have always made excuses for why now isnt a good time to take it away but it cant go on.

Where the hell do I start! with all the issues Im dealing wit?!

I need an earlier Bedtime for her
Get rid of the Bottle
Implement a Routine

Any help will be so much appreciated.

Becca
xxx

Beccaroll, you are never alone on mumsnet !!
My ds1 has only just stopped having his bottle at bedtime and he is 5. He did switch from a teat to a top with one large whole when i had ds2, so ds1 was almost 3 then. His milk got less and less, especially once he was out of nappies at night and at 5 he decided he would have a cup, which he has filled with about half an inch of milk. Ds2 is 2.4 and has his bottle at bedtime so ds1 likes a drink of milk too.
However I have always been very strict with both their bedtime routines ever since they were tiny and they always go to bed between 7:30 and 8:00.

I'd say start with the morning not the evening. Get her up consistently by 8am (say) and she will be tired by bedtime. Then do a routine of tea, bath, story, bedtime at whatever time you think is OK - 8pm or 8.30pm. Make sure you allow enough time for your routine. Ie tea at 6pm, bath at 7pm, then book and bed - or whatever feels right to you. Don't let her sleep until 9.30 and then try to get her into bed by 7.30 because she simply won't be tired enough. I'd also suggest tackling her 'bad habits' one at a time, and once you have an established bedtime you can work on the bottle.I wouldn't stress at all about what time she falls asleep as long as she in bed and has a regular wake up time - that alone will mean she will start to go to sleeep earlier. Good luck.
One other thing strikes me - do you really want her in a routine for your own reasons or just because you feel you 'should' - if her staying up late and sleeping late suits you, then there's no reason to change right now. Once you start waking her for nursery she will be very tired by bedtime at 8ish, I would guess. If you want to do it for you and to give yourself time with your partner, then do it now!

We didnt get ds into a routine till he was nearly three and I was surprised how quickly he adapted. I also think he prefers it, knowing exactly what will happen each evening. I never let him sleep in the day, I tend to avoid car trips after lunch so it is a bit limiting but if he has a sleep, the entire routine takes days to get back to. He has supper with us around 6.30 (late for some but I like us to have a familiy meal), then a bath and straight into his bedroom where we spend time reading and talking, he has a beaker of milk (just ditched the bottle, a week of tears over that), teeth, a cuddle and lights out at 8.30. He settles with no problem at all. Unfortunately he doesnt yet sleep through till morning, that's aour next challenge.

Mine love the introduction of new habits - talk it up a lot and say and now every day at X we are going to do y and see what she thinks.

Do the bath book tape routine and I would leave (oNE) bottle alone until you and the baby are getting more sleep.

Involve her in the babys routine too.

How much are you and your kids getting out. Go for a long pram poush - she can take her dolly int he afternoon and that may exercise her.

Brainwashing is the key IMO!!

Ps can she work the tv herself if she wakes before you?

Bunny2 thats very encouraging - I felt like I was the only mother that hadnt managed to get my child into a routine! Leaves you feeling very inadequate when you hear of others perfectly organised and sorted thanks for sharing how your time went. Sounds like the best plan will be to get her up earlier and once that is consistent getting her to bed earlier should follow suit.

Tonight we have some progress I got both DD and DS in bed ASLEEP by 9pm so I think Ill start as I mean to go on and keep going now and try and introduce some routine!

Becca
xxx

well done - I need the evening to run my life!

Now make sure she is up by 8. think of a tv show she would like to watch after b fast while you sort yourself and the baby out.

Codswollop - didnt see your reply before!

We get out and about most days and she plays with the children round here and goes to nursery school in the afternoon so does get some stimulation (admittedly alot of that has been in the form of Cbeebies since arrival of DS!) - I think we could do with getting out in the fresh air a bit more!

Anyway tonight is progress - I have decided to keep the bottle in place until everything else is sorted - Im wary of taking it away so close to DS arriving in case she feels pushed out.

She does know how to work telly but cant imagine her staying out of my room when she wakes - she is normally straight in, especially as DS is in there with me (2 bed house).

Becca
xxx

She is old enouygh to work it.. IMo - as long as you can hear a yell!

I wouldnt worry about hte bottle at all - it doesnt hurt anyone surely?

I left some squash in a jug whn I was very post natal and a "reward" to stop them waking me up at 6 am.

The bottle - it doesnt REALLY hurt anyone but I feel such pressure (not sure from where really) to have her off it. I have put off and put off tackling it as I feel so guilty!! I feel horrible taking away something that comforts her soooo much when its my fault for letting it continue for so long.

Also, she is not dry at night yet and wears pull up pants - again, I havent tackled this as I think the bottle has to go first!

I sound like a very weak procrastinator (sp?) don't I! lol

Becca, usually don't post on this thread, but I wanted you to know that I did not take my DD off her one-and-only bottle at night until she was 3 or 3 1/2 also. I might have mentioned this on another thread alsothe rotten teeth one? But anyway, she didn't have rotten teeth so that you could see them anyway. She was and is beautiful and she found the bottle so comforting, I just had quite a time taking her off of it. I do believe part of that discomfort was coming from me however, it is so hard to tell. The important thing is to be gentle with yourself, this will all fall into place. If your DD is toilet trained in the daytime, keep her in diapers (or pull ups if you can afford them) when she goes to bed as long as she needs them. My DD could take off and put on her own diaper at nightI resented paying the extra money for the pull ups! I would not put her under any pressure right now with what you are going through, you can always try again in a few months when you have more energy. Coddy's advice is great, as is Bunnys, Aloha's and Kayliegh's. It looks like you have some wonderful support over here, I won't keep bunging my head in here, OK? I just wanted to let you know what I have experienced. My DD is 9 now and she is not on the bottle nor does she wet the bed, honest! She never wants to go to bed and she is quite the night owl today. She still loves a story and cuddle from Mom and would prefer that I sleep in her bed, but who wouldn't?

No Br I am procrastinating about tryong to tackel ds1(5) 's inconitnence. Am waitning for non sleeping baby to sleep.

Leave the bottle - it will gp before she is 18!!

what about till her 4th birthday in the meantime?!!

oh my god - spelling!!

Thanks everyone!! Feeling much better about bottle - its gone on this long may as well leave it for a couple of months until everything else is in place eh!?

Well, first night went very well - as I said I got them both down for about 8.45 and Megan stayed that way all night until 8.15 (sorry coddy I forgot the before 8am bit!) We have been up and about all day so I think she will be tired again by about 8.30-9 - Im going to stick with 9pm again tonight and see how we get on. Theres not much point trying to get the routine bit done tonight as we have people coming over to see the baby so she will be wanting to see them.

Here comes another problem - when I implement all of this and (eventually) get rid of the bottle, what effect do you think going to stay with her Dad and Nana is going to have (They are SO soft with her, I can basically forget about expecting them to uphold any sort of routine/discipline with her)

Don't worry about different rules in different places. Children adapt really well. If most of her time is with you she will understand that she does things differently with you and that your rules are the norm. I do recommend you keep her in a version of her routine even if friends come round, particularly when you are tryng to establish it. Ie still give her her tea and bath at around the normal time and don't push back bedtime past 9pm or she will never be able to get up at 8am and then you are back at square one. Once she's regularly sleeping earlier you can be more flexible IMO (and anyway 9pm's a really late bedtime...I'm shattered by then!)

Does her grandmother help her Dad out?

I would speak to her directly and explain why you are doing it and that she could help out by doing xyz...

Im going to stick to the 9pm bedtime just while were starting out then bring it forward by 15 or so minutes each night hopefully resulting in an 8 o clock bedtime for her and 7.30 bedtime for little one. (Giving her the extra half an hour as a "big sister" treat) The only problem with this is that DP doesnt get in from work til after 8 most nights but like you say, any later and she wont get up.

As for the grandmother - its not so much that she helps her Dad out - she does most of the care. Her dad is an arse (whole other topic!) and does very little for her. He used to have a lot more access which he never bothered to spend time with her so Ive now cut it right down to just one night a week so the routine shouldnt be too badly affected.

Ill have a word with Grandmother and tell her that Ive been putting a routine in and hope that she at least tries to keep it up at her end.

i have posted this on other threads but my confession is my dd 2.6 begged me to get her formua again .....she doesn't like fresh milk but loves the formula..only one bottle in the morning and i don't think it hurts her,(does it?) I have just made the transition of her going to sleep in her room. With me there still! I find reverse psyhcology works the best with my dd. I will say "i'll get you to sleep in your room tonight but you have to be a good girl" That way she sees it as a treat! Good Luck

wont she have a cup of it?

how dod tonight go bR?

Hiya - update on the routine with DD

We still dont have much of a "routine" (bath, story, bed at same time) as such yet but I think we are making big progress! Im making sure she has tea at around the same time and leaving enough time to do the wind down to bed time.

Since I posted the first thread she hasnt been up past 9 so thats great - although at nights like tonight she was up in bed at a decent time but didnt go to sleep for a while. This has all been done without tears or protests so Im happy with the pace we are making.

She went to her Dads/Grandmas on Saturday and I noticed last night she wasnt very tired so must have been up late/slept in.

I was totally shattered this morning and dropped back off to sleep til 9.20am so didnt get her up early enough - I must make sure she is up in good time tomorrow as that is the key to it working I think

Becca
xxx