Controlled crying once in a bed

[Teletubby]

Has anyone got any advice on trying to use controlled crying once their child is in a bed? Our daughter refuses to sleep in her own bed during the day and night and everytime we leave the room she simply climbs off of the bed and tells us how naughty she is!!! We've let her sleep in with us for a bit of extra comfort to see if that works but the next day is exactly the same with an endless battle. Should we put her back in a cot at 22 months or is this unfair? Advice please as i'm exhausted.

I had a night of showdown where I sat otside his room. hysteris al around I just kept repeating myself "Time for bed night night"

At the beginning I used to "fall asleep" with them till they got used to it then gradually "have to go and get something I will be back in a minute"

hysteria all round I meant

We did try the repeated 'back to bed, good girls in bed blah blah' but after 20 times of this with her getting quicker and quicker at getting out of bed we gave in as she was more hysterical than she was in the beginning. Should we have tried for longer? It got to the point where her bottom was barely touching the bed before she was out of it again. Even after endless stories of Noddy as soon as you go to leave she just screams - my husband has started to refer to her as Damien. We're finding all this so difficult because any chance of getting a baby sitter and getting out is a definite no no as we can't guarantee she'll be in bed for us to go out and she'd go beserk if she saw us leaving!

Is she tired enough when she goes to bed? I had very similar problems to this with my dd2 at this age, and getting her out, more fresh air, more walking and swimming did help. Looking back though, as well as there being unusual things going on in her enviroment at the time, this period seemed to start when she was needing less sleep in the day. How much does your dd sleep in the day?

She did sleep for anything from 2 hours to sometimes even 3 but is refusing any daytime sleep too - unless she grabs a quick cat nap in the car. We've been putting her to bed at 7pm and have ended up having her backdownstairs with us until about 9pm because of all the screaming! Even when we go to put her back down at 9pm after she's virtually fallen asleep on the sofa she still won't settle! There was a time when me saying 'you're making mummy cross' use to scare the whotsit out of her but now she just repeats 'oh cross mummy'! I'm sure every mother would agree that they at least need one break from their children over a 24 hour period!!! It's nice to know i'm not alone

She's obviously worked out a good game to wind you up but it is getting out of hand for her - hence her hysteria. I think you do need to regain control but easier said than done. Our dd is similar age and knows that if she removes her nappy and shouts potty she will get taken out of her cot - yet to be successful but can't risk calling her bluff as I'm sure we'd soon have a soaked bed so ultimately she gets her freedom.

Could you perhaps start the bedtime routine a bit earlier to avoid her getting over tired in the process. Be specific about just 1 or 2 stories then light out - and stick to it. Can she get out of her room or could you put a stair gate across to define the limit and perhaps leave a landing light on? I don't think once she is in a bed you can expect her to stay put but she sounds like she needs some sort of security. It might be enough just for a short time until she is more settled.

I fear we will face something similar shortly (we have already been through short (thank God) phases of refusing to sleep) but dd is still in a cot.

Good luck and hope you get some peaceful evenings soon,

LIZS - thanks for the advice. We allow just over an hour for the wind down bedtime thing - we've thought about putting a stair gate at her door but aren't too sure what it will achieve as she's unable to climb back into bed herself. She's definitely cottoned on to it being a good game! Driving me up the wall though - i live for my child free evenings with my husband! I think we're going to have to put her back in a cot to contain her and have a couple of difficult nights with her until she gets the message - she's been in a bed for 5 months now and we hadn't had any problems before but like you say maybe she's just really insecure at the moment what with a new baby around etc She's definitely ruling the roost at the moment. Whats worse is that when she does sleep in our bed she then screams everytime i get up to feed her sister during the night!

Could you perhaps contrive some sort of step system (like a toilet step or kitchen step) to enable her to climb into bed. That way she could "put herself to bed" when she has stories and then you could go through some sort of tucking in routine at lights out. Our dd (small but v. agile) can climb all sorts given the practice, including onto her brother's cabin bed, out of travel cot...

hth

LIZS - i hadn't thought of the step idea - great advice. I'll give that a whirl tonight and let you know how it goes.

Teletubby, ds sleeps on a mattress on the floor and has a stairgate on the door. He does sometimes scream but usually only for a few minutes and then either plays or goes to sleep, weird thing is though 9 times out of 10 he puts himself back to bed and pulls duvet up. Occasionally I go to check on him and the poor little might is asleep pressed up against the gate!

It works at the other end as it appears that his "getting up time" is 5.30, this is totally unacceptable so he gets up, plays quite happily visiting the gate every now and again to call out and see if anyone else is up. I go into him by a much more acceptable 7am

Just a note to add sympathy-been there, done that! Hope you've got some helpful advice from others, but here's mine. I also put a safety gate on the door and didn't use a step for hopping into bed as all mine were obviously kangaroos in a previous life. I think, although it probably sounds harsh that if your little one was actually asleep by 7/7.30ish then it's not too unreasonable for a six am morning wakeup(mumsnetters all around throwing themwelves down and shrieking "NOOO!" I have to admit that I'm a morning person so that wouldn't be too early for me, but how about leaving toys, books, etc in the room or even one of those lightup alarms (Tigger?) and they can call out to you when it goes off? Mine are all older now and I am the worlds worst mother if they don't go to bed at a reasonable time. I need my sleep and also time out with DH, (well, we're both watching TV and falling asleep in front of it) but everyone needs time to wind down, especially if you've got loads of things to do the next day! Just realised that I should be doing a huge roast dinner (DH taken all four of them swimming) and I need to go and do veggies, roasties etc. Does anyone else do this guilty mother thing? I feel that once a week I need to feed them properly, have a sit-down meal and talk about everything? (I can feel a new tthread coming on here!!) By the way, am I thick or what? I have the instructions to do a smiley face etc and when I do it all I get is this please help as it would be such an achievement not to have to ask the kids how to do it! Snigger, snigger, what did mum do at school etc, etc and more snidey comments! LOL I hope you get loads of helpful advice!

Thanks for those bits - i hadn't thought about the mattress on the floor good idea though as my fear was that we'd find her slumped up against the gate having fallen asleep during her hysterics. I've got no problems with her waking up at 6ish if it means an evening to myself with my husband plus the opportunity of sharing a bed with JUST my husband. What i hate at the moe is her waking up at 5am having not gone to sleep until 10pm when she'll only settle in bed with us! My husband is up with her at the moment reading a story and i think the plan is to stay with her until she's literally fallen asleep - not a good habit i know but having got our youngest off to sleep we really don't want to wake her up too. We're going to get tough tomorrow night though - stair gate, mattress on floor the lot. We've managed to book a babysitter for next week so we've really got to get this sorted soon as if we want to go out without leaving the poor babysitter to cope with her!

2 things from me

1. If she ends up sleeping earlier she will probably sleep later in the morning - your DD sounds very tired and it is a vicious circle ! There was a child like that last year on tele. He went to ebd every night at 10PM as he was very difficult to put to bed... he was up very early too... it took the mum 2 or 3 nights of being very firm and her son was in bed at 6:30 easily !

2. If you decide to seriously toughen up - get DH on board and doing it with you and DO IT consistently until you get a result otherwise not only it will fail but all 3 of you will have had a miserable time with no good result ! I think you need to be precise and explain it to her... for example :
   Bedtime is at 7PM with a specific routine : 1 or 2 books (not 15!), teeth brushing, bed with 1 story and /or a song and LIGHTS OFF....

Then be firm, walk her back to bed - with NO story or song ! Of course she'll hate it... but you are in charge and you are responsible for rasing her (she does not know better) and sleep is needed at her age ! (and yours too )

Good luck !

any news? The going to sleep with them habit is quite easy to break I think

codswallop - God this is awful!!!! My husband has sat with her for over an hour and the moment he left she started crying. We've just put up the stairgate - mattress on the floor and are doing the 5 minute, 10 minute thing taking it in turns to go up and put her back onto her mattress. She has been screaming at the gate for what seems like ages, i'm close to tears and my husband wants to leave home. Please someone help me to deal with this, i know what needs to be done but god it's difficult i feel so mean. The romantic night that my husband and i had planned after his weekend away has firmly gone out of the window. Touchwood my youngest is sleeping through the noise.

Teletubby-hang in there! One hour is too long imo to be reading stories-get tough. I know it's hard, believe me I've been there and I've done the controlled crying (feeling like an absolute shit, bad mother etc) but kids need to learn that they're not the boss, we are!!! What makes it harder, I know, is if you have another one and on no account do you want them to wake up. Kids can be really stubborn, mine were and are, but even if they make themselves sick, just clear up, don't do the sympathy routine and walk out. Have you got a garden? Go down it with a drink/DH, don't cry 'cos that's what I did and wait.......
Eventually they'll learn, but I know it's so hard. Just a thought, I've got a really good friend who's always there for me and we have competitions about who's had the crappest day! If you want someone to talk to, (I'm not sure if we can give out phone nos, tech are you listening? )and I'll be here to talk to. E-=mail me on judith-hughes @freeuk.com, really I mean it, do it now and I'll be here! I'm still chasing mine round the garden, but as it's holidays I don't really mind so much as they're all older and they sort of bum around until they're all sleepy. Don't forget, you're not on you're own, I mean it, please e-mail and I'll get straight back to you.

Teletubby-I'll hang on here for a bit to see how you're doing..Good luck.

Jollymum - that message was so so kind and really supportive i can't thank you enough - just what i needed to hear. I've made a note of your e-mail address and will contact you if things don't get any easier. Well, after 50 minutes she has finally stopped....i daren't go up to see where she's actually fallen asleep but hope that it's on the mattress. I had expected a good hour or two but touchwood that's it for tonight. I expect i'll be tearing my hair out tomorrow night too i think they normally say about 3 nights for it to sink in that they're no longer boss. I do feel like so horrible though, i do hope she's still talking to me tomorrow! I've got myself a large glass of wine and my husband hasn't left home...........yet!

Have to say, listen to Pupaces wise words. It was her help last year that started to get me and dd2 back on track last year. She was the same age and having a lunch time nap maybe twice a week. Now I realise she really was very overtired. So I got the lunch time nap routine back and was very strict on this. She would go off if I rocked her in the buggy, she'd never had her naps in bed previously. And this really helped turn the tide, it was like this sleep induced more sleep, and she began to settle much more easily. She's now 3 and 3ms and has only really dropped her nap properly in the last 2ms, and may still occasionaly have a nap now. HTH.

P.S. I probably should have said it at the time but Thanks Pupace, your advice did make a big difference.

Sorry, that should be PupUce??!!

Teletubby-hooray!!! Can I suggest you creep round the house, pour yourselves loads of wine and crawl into bed for as much sleep as possible. Did I hear mention of a romantic night? Well, cuddles are just as good sometimes and now you know you're child-free, well, who knows what might happen?! E-mail me anyway, it would be nice to have a chat and I've got four "angels" so I bet I can tell you some stories! Have to go, my two oldest have decided to watch some film, which "Daddy" says they can and they've decided they want a bloody picnic now! (I did cook that massive dinner,as well!) Now the 4 year old and the 8 year old are whining that it's not fair and why can't they have a picnic too. I'll just let Daddy sort it out, he started it and I'm going into the garden with a very "small" glass/sorry bottle of winre to read my book!
Hope you all have a good nights sleep, let me know how you get on! LOL...

poor you - she will not remember it! Its a necessity like jabs.

stick with it. Do email if you like.

Tiptoeing around almost to frightened to breath! Am on second glass of wine and my husband and i are going off up to bed to catch up on some sleep..........romance will wait! Hope your husband manages to sort out the picnic thing - enjoy your book!

Daddy is now supervising teeth cleaning having given them all chocolate muffins which were tomorrows litte treat! Oldest two happily sniggering in bedroom thinking that as Dad's on cleaning duty, they'll get away with it! HA, HA, I don't think so... Smallest one can't belive he's still up and that Mummy is going to bed soon! I'll just wait for him to drop from exhaustion, turf the cat out of his room and throw him into bed. Well, goodnight! LOL

Teletubby - be strong tomorrow and by tuesday it should be a breeze. Don't worry if she sleeps against the stairgate she wont do it very often and you can move her when you go to bed. AND ON NO ACCOUNT GO AND CHECK WHEN THE CRYING STOPS(!) my ds plays for ages or sits looking mornfully at the landing, the sight of us starts him up. Just assume no noise is good news!