BF 21 month old, nightweaning going badly

[otchayaniye]

I've posted before, but yet again things have reached a head.

DD, 21 months. She?s been bf to sleep and has never been in a cot (apart from an Amby in the early days). Frequent waker and until a month or so ago was fed back to sleep. I decided to night wean (Jay Gordon method, more or less) about 5-6 weeks ago as I still hadn?t got my period, and was spending hours resettling her and it was beginning to become a real strain.

I work three days a week and my husband looks after her then. He works 2 long night shifts. She is still slung, and slung for naps. I never set out to be an attachment parent, but have ended up doing these things as it worked for her.

At first, night weaning was encouraging. I?d kind of sometimes played dead in the night when she woke and she?d chunter, cry a bit, fling herself about a bit, but after about 10 mins, would fall back asleep. So I knew she could do it. So I pressed ahead. Some nights were better than others, but she never really slept through. Also, she?d want her morning feed earlier and earlier and my issue is some days I work I have to get up at

I am so at the end of my rope with this. Around ½ hour to 2 hours getting her to sleep, always waking once a couple of hours after, then at least two

I?m in some ways questioning why I night weaned as at least I had some peace. And so did my neighbours. But I feel I can?t go back to that either.

But even though she understands me, I don?t know whether feeding her to sleep, but not in the night even though we co-sleep, is confusing her and dragging it out too much.

I am considering stopping feeding her altogether (I?m fed up with it to be honest, particularly the grabbing and twisting and pulling).

I have had some bitter exchanges with my husband as I resent the fact he doesn?t have to deal with this. Also, it?s hard to have a run of him putting her to bed as he does a few night shifts. Don?t know how to start. Get him to do it, by getting her into her bed (currently a double mattress on the floor in her room)

I have EVEN considered CC, although I don?t really agree with it, don?t think it?s appropriate for her as she?s so attached, don?t think it would work easily. I?m just that knackered, that demoralised and that fed up.

I had one hour sleep on Sunday. Not that she was awake all that time, but was waking frequently, crying and tantrumming, finally settling and I was fully awake, angry, bitter and wondering if this will ever end. And then the alarm went at 5.10am and my cab called the front door. Cue another tantrum as I handed her over to my DH (who has now been banished to her room)

Something has to be done. My relationship is suffering, so is my ability to do my job. She?s tired some mornings also.

I?ve just lost all confidence and I don?t have a clue what to do.

I'm wondering if actually this is nothing to do with the weaning. Is she teething or ill? Or too hot?
Does she spend all night in her own bed?

Sorry, should explain. She's never really been in a cot or bed of her own, always in mine (used to be 'ours' but husband has moved out to her bed -- a mattress we've never successfully got her to sleep on, although we did end up on it last night because I was worried about the neighbour that side.

Oh yes, I've considered the teething (aren't they always) and illness (she seems fine) and she has had a couple of disrupted days (kids party, bed late, off to ILs and back late and never slept int he car like she usually does)

I really think it's that she's super attached and can sense I'm withdrawing the boob and she's compensating and getting angry when it's not forthcoming. And happens to be awake when I'm trying to leave for work on an early shift.

But I don't want to go back to feeding through the night. I found that too hard, too demoralising and was stopping my fertility.

sorry, just seem so tired I can't think straight and take the step back I need to see what's the best thing to do. I always manage to have 'the talk' about it during a crisis point so I feel unsupported by my husband, when he would actually help.

We've talked about me stopping breastfeeding (I really want to now)

We've talked about him settling her, but he's pusillanimous when she's upset and he brings her into the main room to 'calm her down'. My point is that he should settle her in the place where she'll sleep.

We've even considered CC. Seriously have. But I don't think it's for any of us. But maybe gradual retreat? How do we do that?

Doesn't help that I had a terse exchange with a good friend who basicallt said that she's listened enough, I'm being ridiculous and that I should CC - I'd have 10 days max of pain and that it will be the best thing I've done. I had to truncate the chat as it really upset me.

Hello there..

I just saw this in active convos and said I'd see if I could think of anything helpful. Although he was in his own cot (so not entirely the same) I too weaned my DS at 20 months and for very similar reasons.. I felt that neither of us were getting anything out of it anymore..

He was pulling and dragging, and hurting me actually, and I'd had enough of the interrupted sleep and the crushing responsibility of being there to get him off..

I read Jay Gordon's material every so often until I seemed to hit on the right moment to do it! That said, I cut the feeds one by one.. Is it too late for that? For example at night I gave him water up til a certain point in the night, then agreed to BF and pushed that back little by little.. by the time I cut out the bedtime feed I think there wasn't a lot of milk there so it made it easy enough.. despite my nostalgia, of course..

And if it is of any help, I actually did my last bedtime feed at Christmas.. he was up late and very tired and for a few days among so many changes and so much general fun and high spirits, he almost didn't notice for a few days, then complained loudly one night (very hard..) and that was it..

I am Mrs BF, but I do have to say that he sleeps better now..( I think he wasn't letting himself get into a deep enough sleep..) and, while he sometimes wakes for a drink of water, he more or less sleeps through.

By the sounds of your post you are ready to do it.. and your situation with your OH is hard on both of you..

Be strong and do it as drastically or as gently as you and your family need to!

Good luck!

It sounds like you're looking for 'permission' to stop BF? Is that about right? I think that would be the way to go, tbh. Even though I think CC is very useful and effective if done properly, I'm not sure it would be appropriate for a bf/co sleeping/ non self settler. Baby steps, stop the bf first, then start to introduce her to her own cot and use CC if you have to after that.

thank you.

yes, I have two reasons to cut back/stop breastfeeding. One is I had no period until I didn't feed between midnight and 5-6am. The other is I think it is intefering in the whole self settling process.

Plus it hurts. It wouldn't hurt if it was a quick feed, but because it's been feeding to sleep its accompanied by scratching, pawing (hate to use that term in conjunction with feeding as it's loaded, but what the fuck, it IS pawing) and writhing. Sometimes it feels like my skin all over my chest is burning and that she's actually going to rip me.

Very perceptive, and I think you've vocalised what I've been feeling.

hmmmmm I think you need to take a few steps back and not give yourself such a hard time. I'm not suggesting that you start feeding again but that you let her be attached to you - it's not a bad thing.
Could you get her to go off to sleep in her own bed? What does she do if you detach her during the feed to sleep?

should say, I am totally with you on the just being generally fed up with feeding. I've only just nightweaned DD and I must say I don't miss the night feeds one bit, even though I still have to get up to give her a cuddle.
Being tired makes everything seem 10 times worse :-(

She varies. She could sometimes squawk and wrestle a bit and then fall asleep. Some nights she's actually woken and cried and fallen asleep again herself (it's rare, but happened, say, five times) but other nights, such as the last few, she's woken, cried, writhed, thrashed about, kicked, asked for water, refused water, arched her back when I've picked her up and rocked her and won't be easily comforted. I know that if I relented and fed her to sleep it would take a while and be painful for me, so that stops me relenting (if that makes sense)

I could try to get her to sleep in her own bed. I've kind of stopped doing that because until recently she's been waking, crying for a bit and getting to sleep which has been easier on me. If she was in another room she'd wake up more fully.

ARGH. I don't know what my next step should be, stop feeding first, or stop feeding to sleep AS I attempt to get her in her own bed.

Otherwise, life is great. She's a wonder, an amazing talker and a delight and we enjoy our days.

If you don't want to bf anymore though, then try stopping that first? Who knows what will actually work with dc, so at least make sure you're doing something that works for you!

yeah. i just didn't want to end it on a sour note, I suppose.

I realise I'm clinging onto it in some ways. Be hard to let it go, as until 19-20 months I was feeding on demand.

It was and has been a massive (and faintly boring and irritating, but also undeniably lovely) part of my life for almost 2 years.

I honestly think this could be developmental. Has she suddenly started talking in sentences? If she was going back to sleep OK until recently and nothing else has changed then I wonder whether it's actually anything to do with BF.
The heat has really been getting to my DD so perhaps that isn't helping.
If you want to give up BF then go for it but it might not be the problem...

yeah, she's an early talker though, words at 9 months speaking in sentences at 13-14 months. Can't see what it could be.

She's actually a little under the weather, bit of a cough. And it's hot.

But she was born in Singapore and no probs there.

well good luck with whatever you decide and I hope it sorts itself out soon.
stargirl x

I kind of know what you mean about it ending on a sour note, I stopped bf dd2 almost by accident. Admittedly only at about 11.5 months, but had gradually dropped the feeds, then one bedtime she seemed unusually calm and happy so spontaneously decided to not give her a feed and just put her to bed. Almost went back in as soon as I closed her door, as I suddenly realised we hadn't had a last feed. But didn't, and was over it within a day!

Good luck, sounds like you need to try something, so whatever you decide I hope it works!

hello otchayaniye . you obviously want to move on and maybe she does but she just needs you to show her the way a little. Is there any way you can buy her a nice little bed that you can make all nice for her with books and a little light. and read her stories like this one about sleep/going to sleep. Be gentle with her but talk to her about sleeping in general and then just go for it. Be prepared for endless patience - you might have to return her to her bed a million times the first night or three! but just persevere, and during the day talk to her about what it means to go to bed/sleep etc

I've said all of this, but I don't know if they can even be put in a little bed at this age - defo in a few month though!

I was just thinking that sleeping on a double mattress on the floor would not be very nice for a little baby unless they had mum or dad with them.

We are night-weaning our 16 month old and our HV suggested something which worked well for us.

We delay giving our son his feed when he wakes up. Our aim is to delay for an hour, but if he seems especially thirsty or upset, any delay will do. The good thing we found about this is that the objective is not to get them to sleep without milk (not in the short term, anyway).

When our son wakes, we go to him and try to get him back to sleep with shushing, or singing, or whatever method. If he gets very upset, then we pick him up and take him out of his room (this calms him immediately, as he is interested). When he is calm we take him back, ask him if he wants a drink of water and generally try and keep him happy for the hour. Then we feed him to sleep.

In 3/4 days, we have gone from waking 5 times a night, to waking once. We only had to stay up with him for an hour once or twice. He is settling back to sleep without the boob and not waking anywhere near as much as he used to. Hopefully there will be even greater improvements by the end of the week.

Hope that helps.

that is really interesting yarnie as when my ds is throwing a wobbly at naptime i often just take him out of the room for a minute or so and it calms him down as he is interested. why does your method work do you think?

(i am thinking of ways to peacefully nightwean a 10month old.)

Ruby My son likes lights and we give him a tour of all the little green and red lights on appliances, etc in the dark. It calms him down because he loves the lights.

It doesn't work for us in the day!

lol hi yarnie - but why does it lead to less night waking

Oh, and I think the method gets him used to longer gaps between feeds. Why he then doesn't wake up at his usual wakening times, I don't really know.

Good for you for going so long, my DD is 13 months and I need to night wean now as working full time from September and can't take the broken nights anymore. Try to introduce to own cot as could be that co sleeping is waking DD more often when she smells your milk or you or DH move around and in this hot weather the extra body heat could be making her thirsty more often too. I now lengthen time between bedtime feed and sleep so that I don't feed to sleep, she goes into her cot awake, then I read her a story (or make one up) and sit by the cot (am trying to move further away as time goes on). Also on nights when DH is around send him in to pat and shush or offer water as at least then if she resettles without you then some nights you will get more sleep.

Got to go DD needs me will post with more ideas later

hmm i can't think why either! good one though - will try! and lol at your DS looking at all the little lights - hilarious!

I second Allsheep re: co-sleeping. We used to co-sleep with DS. His sleep got worse and we realised we were waking him up. Obviously, that might not be the case with you, but it's worth keeping being alert to.

Of course, we have other sleep issues now, but he's definitely better since he's been in his own bed (a double mattress on the floor, which he just loves).

Right. Well, today I wasn't working so we went en famille to Ikea to buy a bed. Initially we couldn't choose between double bed, or single but daughter chose a toddler bed.

We plan to make our bedroom her bedroom and ours vice versa (it's more commodius as we can't move some massive wardrobes) and make it lovely. Have everything in its place and have a space for her tent and generally make her feel special, rather than the cobbled together room she has now as she's never actually slept in it so it's never made us fully sort it out. We lived in SE Asia when she was a baby, then we were planning to move (but can't when we're both part-time so that's on the back burner) so

All through today I told her that we would have boobie (well, it beats 'tit' which was what she first called it when she started speaking at 9-10 months! Must have heard me complaining about my 'tits hurting' to my husband) BEFORE she slept while she was having a story, but that they needed to sleep now. Lots of 'yes mummys' but I still don't think it sunk in.

Fed her, read several long stories and turned the light out. Cue massive tantrum, angry crying, getting out of bed, back into bed, scratching at me (I wore a polo neck, in THIS heat, I tell you) and asking for 'fizzy water'. It was the longest tantrum cry she's ever had at knocking on half an hour and I was half ready to cave, but I didn't. I think her pawing at me, trying to get to them and screeching just made me not want to cave in, if that makes sense.

Still it was upsetting. I've never really let her cry for long and although I tried to hold her (at times she wasn't having it) and talk to her, I let her get it all out in her time. She got back into bed, was a little upset and there were a couple of shudders, but she fell asleep and is still asleep now (normally she'd have woken again by now). I expect I'll have to rinse and repeat again when she wakes up (poor neighbours)

Funnily enough I've always put it off until my husband isn't working a night (like he is tonight) but I actually was fed up and thought I needed to seize the day. He's more of a softie than me and having him watching TV or reading next door while I deal with it riles me.

Why don't the WHO tell you how hard it is to stop. You do the right thing, feed them until they're roughly 2 but they don't tell you that stopping then if you need to or have to (because let's face it, most would continue to be breastfed to sleep for much longer) will be so heartbreaking and nervewracking.

I still can't shake the feeling that I was horrid and cruel. But at least I was in the room, or holding her, or next to her, or giving her fizzy water and explaining they were asleep.

That's ok, isn't it?

Anyway. I suppose I continue this and soonish do up that room (so she won't be changing rooms as such, we'll just move our bed and stuff out) and feed her and put her awake in her new bed.