3.5 year old still waking 4 times a night. At the end of my tether now.

[suwoo]

I have DD aged 8, always a good sleeper, DS1 who is 4 in December, always been a 'high needs' baby particularly regarding sleep. DS2 is one on Friday and generally sleeps through (in our room).

Everything with DS1 has had to be done slowly, I have a blog on MN about getting him to sleep in his own bed whilst I was pg with DS2.

Whilst we were in France for 2 weeks, he slept through about 10 of the 14 nights. Maybe to do with all the activity, playing out all day etc

Back home now and back to waking 4 times (sometimes more) each night.

He sleeps in a fleece all in one with feet to alleviate waking up cold. He asks for milk and will normally have 2 cups a night. Often, he will call me but still be asleep . That really drives me crazy!

He doesn't eat enough which can't help, so we try to get him to have toast at bedtime.

He goes to bed fine by himself and doesn't need us to sit with him or anything.

I don't really want to leave him crying, so as not to wake up the other two and the neighbours.

He is at school part time, which did help but starts FT in September. I am clinging onto this helping. I work evenings and am going to uni in September. We have no childcare and I haven't had a night away from them since our honeymoon 5 years ago.

I think this is a vent more than advice seeking. Getting really fucked off with this now and finding it difficult to cope.

Oh and he won't have DH do anything with him, he is a hardcore mummys boy.

DOes he sleep better next to you? Could you do a couple of nights of next to you but breaking the milk habit? So you know he's got you - I know how hard it is to be firm when you have that niggling doubt. When we got the dc out of the milk at night I slept next to them. We also substituted water (in TT cup) that they can get themselves.

Also you could try talking to him lots during day, maybe play games with teddies of good sleeping, tell him how FANTASTIC it is when he doesn't need milk at nigth because you get to sleep (and then you are not so grumpy). Try to keep it positive (it is hard I know)

Try to focus on one issue at a time. And good luck! Dd is a much better sleeper since the last few months...

I knew she meant the pasta jar, we have done that before, I was referring to my earlier post about pasta every night.

Adair, he will sleep through if in with me, we co-slept until he was two. I have decided not to go down that route though as we will then have to break that habit (and there is nowhere for DH to go and we have DS2 in our room)

Will have to go hardcore.

I have a very similar problem, DS is a bit younger, but I have to lie with him until he goes back to sleep. then i fall asleep, then when I wake up, I wake him up!!! big vicious circle

i need to make a big effort to tire him out during the day and fill him up.

he's not eating, so I think hungry in the night too, and asking for milk
he just associates milk with going to sleep, difficult cycle to break
good luck, but I'm with you, it's really hard with all the broken sleep

OP it does sound like you are completely exhausted, it is rough.

It sounds like this night waking is very much a learned habit which will have to be 'unlearned'. But how?

It sounds like your DS has a lot of power over this situation and is aware that you will do whatever it takes not to wake the rest of the house and neighbours, so my take on it is that he is manipulating the situation to his advantage. Particularly about not 'letting' your DH attend to him. That is ridiculous considering your DH is also his loving parent.

Your DS1 is the same age as my DD2, could you try sitting him down and say this is what is going to happen tonight, no milk anymore and you are to stay in your bed all night (being quiet) and if you do you can have X sticker on a chart or small treat, whatever.

I'd let DH do all the reassuring for a few nights and see what happens.

Thanks fanjolina, that is exactly what I've done today
We have had a lot of 'that's not fair' but he is receptive.
Until tonight....

I can sympathise. I had a similar problem with DD1 coming into my bed 3 or 4 times every night a few months ago. She would scream and cry if I brought her back to her room and then she kept us up all night if she stayed in our bed.

Eventually, I let DH deal with DD2 if she was woken up by the crying and screaming and it took 4 nights of absolute hell but it was definitely worth it.

Hang in there. It will be hard for a few nights but so worth it in the long run.
Good luck

Thanks Iwish. Am pretending to be ready.

Looks like you've had some good advice above, I hope it helps soon as you must be soooo sleep deprived and feeling half mad. My DS is up and down with his sleep, however a few tricks if it looks like he's about to start a habit are - banana between tea and nighttime milk as slow release food, lavender oil sprinkled on bed sheets. Moving from milk to water is tricky, but be persistent (don't use cold water as this wakes them, but room temp ok, so fill bottle from kettle before bed). Lastly, more action to wear him out, less TV. Plus normal TV can be scary for a little one (some programme trailers even on at 6pm are horrible!) He could wake up scared. I only say this because it happened to me when I was little and took months and months to get over a scary face! My poor mum had no idea! Good luck.

Hi Suwoo (and all other sleep deprived parents)

I think that the advice above is good. We did allow our DS to come into our bed if he woke in the night but didnt compromise - if he wanted to come in no one got out so it wasnt that comfortable.

This habit ended naturally as he got older. We told him that if he came into our bed then he wouldnt be able to have a friend come to play from school as he would be 'tired'. This could have been applied to any minor treat.

Is the milk in a bottle? Perhaps one step would be to give a smaller amount of milk in a cup. That way it is less for comfort than thirst. The next step is then water.

One piece of advise which also worked for us is being the most boring parent in the world after bed time. No chat, no cuddles, just here's your drink. Stay in the room but dont interact.

By the way, the DS mentioned above is now nearly 12 and wants to join the army! You do get through this!

What happens if DH goes to him? How bad is the tantrum?

Sometimes I think I 'give in' to 5 year old DS because I'm worried about him waking DD. He is fine during the night but a little horror at bedtime. Recently we have stood firm and allowed the insane screaming and wailing to happen. DD sleeps blissfully throughout.

If DD does wake then the focus of attention shifts to her and DS doesn't get what he wants (two slaves giving in to his every whim).

So maybe you should experiment and get DH to deal and see how it goes. You might be surprised. Or you might not! But worth a try perhaps?

I read a wonderful book by a man called 'harry benson' and he starts off by telling all of children that life is not fair and sometimes it works well for some and sometimes for others.he and his wife have six children 18-7years. Lovely family and a great book.

Suwoo I too have tons of hugs for you. My ds also used to wake and milk would only settle him. I called the HV as didnt know where to turn she said either do 2 things to get him off milk:

1. be harsh and go for it withdraw milk totally when wakes say you have run out and let him belt it out or

1. Water down milk bit by bit each night

I did number 2, took a good week and a half but hey presto it worked he stopped waking. I did however to settle him get in his bed and cuddle him to take his mind off it. Not ideal but it worked - he went back off to sleep and I snook out...again started another habit but better than the milk thing.

I also can handle ds better than hub so stuck with me as I can deal better with it all.

It has only really settled and him sleeping through since starting school full time - as he is shattered and too tired to wake but to tell the truth its true what people say they do grow out of it but it takes time, my ds at he age of 5 and a half has only just settled down.

Good luck and keep posting here for support - Oh and also dont reply to posters who have nothing better to do than wind people up they are very insensitive and dont warrant a reply. Take care and lots of hugs

Hi SUWOO - I feel your pain. Years of interrupted sleep deprive you of living and enjoying life - it is hell . My DD almost 4 gets nightmares and ends up in either my bed or DHs every night. I am not hard on her as I still get terrible nightmares - I remember being her age and feeling the same way - you just can't rationlise when you a re 3!

DS 2 has started wakening in the night the last few months too . A wet nappy definitely awakens him - he drinks loads in this heat.

DH and I haven't slept in the same bed for about 4 years now LOL Works for us and we know it will only be for a while. At least that way he can get some sleep for work.

So if it aint one it's the other! My Dh took them both away to his parent's for 2 night the other week and it was amzing . Having a full, proper sleep - you feel like a normal human being again instead of an exhausted, tearful, angry, frustrated person!

I can't give you any advice but just wanted to say wishing you great success and hope things improve for you.

How did it go suwoo - did you give it a try?

Yes, let us know how it goes! Perhaps we can be your cheering team.

Thanks all. TSC- you have enough on your plate love, but can we come and see you soon?

Right, so I told him there'd be no more milk in the night and we made his sticker chart and bought his present online that he gets after 7 stickers.

He went to bed fine. Went through til about 12-1 (didn't check time). He didn't even ask for milk . He took ages to settle but didn't whinge or cry, just lay there. I had to read hima story though. He hadn't settled after a fairly long time so I got in his bed. I got out when he was asleep.

He then shouted me at 3 ish and I went in but he was asleep.

He came into my bed about 4 and slept until 7.30.

I am really pleased that he wasn't bothered about the milk, but I've told him he has to stay in his own bed tonight.

So day one done, but one problem ends another begins.

Thanks for all your support. I wouldn't have done it without you, or the very persuasive Pinkjenny.

yay, well done!!
you are inspiring me!

inspiring you? Are you sure????

yeah, you made progress
I'm just waiting for a miracle!!

Get scurryfunge on your case, she'll shame you into it

Well done - phew relief. I was up from 2am to 3.30 with my wee beggar!