Highly annoying French ski apartment check out - is this normal or are my family just dirty cochons ?

[rookiemere]

I posted in AIBU over the weekend but didn't get much response so think this might be quite specific to skiing rentals.

I booked a nice apartment through Booking.com and paid 60 euros extra for cleaning as we were leaving early and because I don't want to be cleaning on holiday. The changeover/cleaning lady was lovely when we arrived - sold me a jar of her DDs overinflated costly honey - I asked her what we needed to do on departure, strip the beds was all she said.

So Fast forward to leaving day. Floor is a bit dusty because outside is muddy and I've not cleaned the bathrooms, but nor have we left any skid marks on the toiled, and we've washed and dried dishes and cleaned the kitchen area.

It's a two bed apartment and pretty compact so not a huge job - with my low standards I reckon about an hour to get it presentable, maybe another 30-60 minutes for it to be sparkling, but 60 euros should pay for a couple of hours cleaning I would have thought.

Well I think you can guess what happens next. Cleaning lady arrives and starts muttering about how dirty it is. I said yes that's why we paid the cleaning fee ( bear in mind it's really not that bad). Oh she said, couldn't you have done a little cleaning at least.
With great reluctance she refunded the 500 euros breakage deposit and I hotfooted it out.

I'm still annoyed about it 3 days later. Similar thing happened in a ski rental a few years ago in same resort - again we'd paid the not inconsiderable cleaning fee. I'd like to point out we've never had issues like this in any other country, and I genuinely don't think we're that bad.

My take on it is she hoped to pocket the cleaning fee but hadn't budgeted in any time with changeovers to actually clean. I'm tempted to message the owner, but of course she'll say that we left the place in a disgusting mess so it's her word against ours.

Anyone else had similar experiences? I'm tempted to never rent from French owners again as it seems like a mismatch of expectations.

@pinkhousesarebest

This makes me think of my concierge ( in Paris).
If someone leaves a doormat outside their door on a Thursday (the day she's meant to wash the floors ) she won't clean any of the floors in the building or the hallway because she can't .

Her hours are 8-11am and then 2-5pm but good luck trying to collect a parcel after 4.45pm - because she has already shut her notebook (paper notebook where she meticulously writes down who's picked up what parcel) for the day.

If you haven't properly flattened a cardboard box to her liking she'll take it out of the communal bin and put it back in front of your front door with a whole page of notes on the fact they have to be properly flattened so they don't spring back up and that if not they should be cut up.

In the courtyard (there's a gardenhose) she will only water the official building plants in the official pots, if you're away during the summer for a hot weekend and have ground floor windows with planters outside - well too bad for you - she unscrews the gardenhose and takes it back to her lair when she's done.

She's been in the building 25 years, and is protected by French workers law. We paid to have her loge totally renovated 3 years ago ( cost nearly 40 grand - and it is majestic by Paris standards - 37m2 only room without a window is the bathroom). She takes home 2200 euros after tax and lives rent and bill free ( because we have to pay all bills as per the work rights convention including phone, internet, tv channels, printer ink (given how much she uses - its not just for her signs ).

She retires in 4 years and we are pretty much all counting the days ...

@lejourseleve maybe you should apply for the role when it becomes available- sounds amazing!

I’ve never stayed anywhere where you pay an extra cleaning fee. That should be included in your rental surely? They have to clean between guests! I would try to forget about it. She was perhaps hoping a little grumble and you’d leave a tip or something.

People here clean their own houses before the cleaning lady comes. Mystifying. Fwiw agree that's weird but it's also never happened to me in France. Do you speak fluent French? Can often end up with very rude behaviour of not.

@Cherryblossoms85 I do indeed speak French, kind of wish I didn't and then I wouldn't have understood what the lady was saying about us.

It seems to be a French thing - I do get a bit miffed when payment for cleaning is not built into rental price. Surely if you're renting out a holiday property, cleaning thoroughly is part of the job.....

I've mentioned this before, but we rented a house in France a few years ago - beautiful place, had a fantastic week. Cleaned the place on the last morning, the owner came round to check and basically crawled around examining every corner.

He called me into the bedroom, and crooked his finger at me then pointed to hairs under the bed. Long blonde hairs - I have short, mousy, greying hair and DH has a no. 4 comb cut, but the arse stood over me while I swept them up anyway, while he stood and watched with a rather nasty smirk on his face. Completely put a dampener on the last morning.

We’re going to Paris soon and we’re going to find an apartment though booking.com

Feeling a bit apprehensive now

This is so interesting and now I understand the experience we had in a French gite a few years ago. Had prearranged the cleaning fee at booking with the company so was surprised when the housekeeper/cleaner who showed us in asked us at the start to 'just wipe round, hoover, mop, strip beds'. I said oh no they must not have let you know, I went for the optional cleaning fee. She grumbled and muttered in French but basically seemed to say ok. At the end, predicting trouble, we had made it cleaner than I would leave a British place but it obviously wasn't to next guest ready standard. She still grumbled and made us feel bad!
She also told us we couldn't use the fireplace- when the listing clearly said functioning fireplace which was a reason for us booking as it was early in spring and my family loves an open fire. We said no way. I think it was just hee trying to reduce the work she'd have to do on the sly from the owner/company.

And 2 of the 4 promised on site bikes couldn't be used during our stay, her attempt at repair was non existent.

Honestly @WotgunShedding I'd look out for English owned apartments or stay at an aparthotel. Or failing that ask detailed questions about what cleaning is included and if you pay a cleaning fee how should the apartment be left.

In our case I have a feeling that the owner would be very surprised to learn that the cleaner was abusing paying guests who had paid a 60 euro cleaning fee, to the point that they wouldn't rent his property again, but not having had it stated up front what the expectations on each side were, I'm going to let it go.

@HiCandles it does feel as if the French cleaners see their job is to poke holes in the guests cleaning, rather than actually do the job they're paid for.

As a British visitor it would help enormously to have a list of what you're expected to do both with and without cleaning fee. Having said that I expect once I'd seen the list I'd never rent through a French owner or company again ( and currently I have every intention of trying to avoid French owned properties for life).

In our case I have a feeling that the owner would be very surprised to learn that the cleaner was abusing paying guests who had paid a 60 euro cleaning fee, to the point that they wouldn't rent his property again, but not having had it stated up front what the expectations on each side were, I'm going to let it go.

You need to out that on your review. A. To warn other guests, B. To warn the host.

@TatianaBis if I do review it then owner can reply on Booking.com.

I highly doubt that cleaner is going to say to him - oh yes there was a bit of superficial dirt, but hey they paid the cleaning fee and it was fine for the 2-3 hrs I'd allocated- no, she'd take the opportunity to defame me a bit further and it's obviously easier for the owner to side with the cleaner.

I need to get over it and myself and this thread has helped me put it into perspective. Future holiday renters will just need to beware for themselves.

I need to get over it
Nah. Give them the review they deserve. Something subtle like "the owner likes to present an immaculate apartment. Remember to set aside the last day of your holiday so you can do a thorough deep clean that will, hopefully, come close to their exacting standards".

@rookiemere Yeah, and it's always the same, "quelle saloperie" etc. I had forgotten about our Corsica rental that went the same way, and came with a hefty cleaning fee we'd paid in cash. MIL obviously still ran about cleaning everything to no avail. Kind of puts me off France a bit, and I used to live there.

Oh I like that wording @senua , maybe I will post. Unfortunately the experience has marred my memories of an otherwise rather good ski rental property, so I need to sleep on it a bit more and decide if it's worth it.

I need to sleep on it a bit more and decide if it's worth it.
Do you think that they are losing any sleep over you?
You owe it to your fellow holiday-makers!

[quote rookiemere]@TatianaBis if I do review it then owner can reply on Booking.com.

I highly doubt that cleaner is going to say to him - oh yes there was a bit of superficial dirt, but hey they paid the cleaning fee and it was fine for the 2-3 hrs I'd allocated- no, she'd take the opportunity to defame me a bit further and it's obviously easier for the owner to side with the cleaner.

I need to get over it and myself and this thread has helped me put it into perspective. Future holiday renters will just need to beware for themselves.[/quote]
If the owner did that then she would unilaterally put all future renters off. Good owners who are serious about their business will say something to mollify you and future guests.

This is what reviews are for - to give other guests the heads up and to let owners know where they can improve their service.

By the by it's not just French owners who are pernickety - it's the guests too.

I once binned a prospective French guest who sent me a list of 19 numbered questions, and requested that I re-schedule the cleaners, the gardener and the pool maintenance guy. As luck would have it another delightful French family booked the same dates shortly after.

I also once lost a star on a review because the gardener woke the primary French guest by mowing the lawn at 9am on their departure day. Given they were due to leave at 10am, I don't know what time he had intended to wake up!

By and large though our French guests are lovely, it's generally Americans who are the most hassle.

The last time me and DH stayed in a gite in France the owner emailed me to thank me for how clean we left it.

She said we made a better job of it than her cleaner does!

Having had a think about it, I will review and mention the cleaning as a mismatch of cultural expectations "I had thought the cleaning fee would cover the basic cleaning but this appears not to be the case in France and hoovering and cleaning of bathrooms was expected even if you have paid for cleaning "
Hopefully that should alert others without incurring a negative reply.

I wpuld never hopvernif there was a cleaning fee

I would wash up strip beds and leave it tody

We own a ski property in France that is managed as part of a residence. The cleaning routine is really odd - renters are expected to clean the kitchen but not the rest of the property. I'm told this is fairly normal. And the housekeeping team provides each rental group with no cleaning products beyond a 100 ml bottle of washing up liquid, a sponge scourer and a tiny J-cloth type cloth.

We have left a supply of cleaning products and cloths under the sink and have found that, mostly, people use them. I'd like to be able to extend the cleaning to cover the kitchen too, but we can't have a different set of Ts and Cs for our place compared to the others in the residence.
We did turn up once after renters had been in to find the oven absolutely filthy - they must have overcooked a roast or something, it was coated in a fatty, sooty residue. That was a British group. I was sort of glad we were next in, as at least it was me that had to clean it up, not someone who'd paid to stay on their holiday.
The changeover cleaning and housekeeping team just ignore the kitchen as the French groups always come prepared to clean at the end of their stay and usually leave it pristine. Quite a few places in France expect you to clean the whole unit!
Until recent years it was fairly common for French holiday rentals to require that you bring your own sheets and towels, AND clean the whole place before you left. Not my idea of a holiday....

We always pay a cleaning fee but always leave it spotless anyway as I consider myself a representative for my country, particularly in France where I know they love to grumble about us.

@Perfectlystill

We always pay a cleaning fee but always leave it spotless anyway as I consider myself a representative for my country, particularly in France where I know they love to grumble about us.

Don't be daft! If you pay for cleaning then they should be doing the cleaning. Why would you pay for it and do it yourself?