A message from Harriet Harman - Minister for Women and Equality - how is the credit crunch/recession is affecting you and how do you think Government can help?

[JustineMumsnet]

Harriet Harman writes:
We want to protect families from the credit crunch with real help. And we want to hear what Mumsnet are concerned about during this recession; what you want us to be doing about it; and what you want to see changed for the future. Prime Minister Gordon Brown is hosting an international Economic Summit in London (which President Obama will be coming to) in April to agree with other countries how we work together to get the global economy back on its feet and growing again. I want to hear from you and feed your views in to this summit.

Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?
Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?
Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?
What do you want to see government doing to help with that?
What do you think about bonuses?
How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?

yes, my partner has lost his job, we have a redundancy payment and i have savings which i want to hang on to in case we need to move for work and clearly won't be able to sell our house.

Because we have savings we are not entitles to any benefit it seems. Government advice is to BF untill 6 months but i have had to go back to work before that.
Baby having separation anxiety at a young age as I am stopping Bf so I am getting no sleep and working.
Dh trying to write job applications with young Baby as am i trying to generate freelance employment.

Why not have proper benefit system where those who have contributed for years get a reward for their prudence. what incentive has there been for us to save????

Oh yes and to top it off I work in the arts and there is an athletics meeting in 2012 which is preventing my sector from getting reasonable funding right now.

think what a fantasticly visitable country we would have if the quantaty of money which went to the banks went into our transport,streets and public places.

-Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?

No I think lack of earnings worry men and women equally.

-Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?

Dh still has his job thankfully, but the impact of the recession on our family is mainly the stress of uncertainty of what might happen in the future.

-Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?

We haven't asked for advice or help.

What do you want to see government doing to help with that?

I would like to see the root cause of this recession tackled to avoid this situation in the future. I am no expert, but I believe that speculation on the housing market is what started this debacle. Government should put measures in place to avoid the ever increasing prices of homes in future.

-What do you think about bonuses?
Unacceptable in the current climate.

-How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?

Starting a business is not everyone's ambition or desire. Some of us just want to reincorporate in the job market, with small children and no family support around it is hard. Some of us would like to re-train and start a new career that is compatible with being with our children (rather than working long hours,etc). Helping women accomplish this would be wonderful.

I had a wonderful professional career before having my children, but it did involved long hours, travelling abroad, long commutes into London, I no longer want to do this type of job because I want my children to be my first priority.

I think the recession has worried both myself and DH equally. he is an NHS worker so his job seems secure, but we're aware that if a round of spending cuts comes then it isn't inconceivable that his service could be axed.

I'm at home with 4 children under 7. I am a social worker but until all my children are ikn fulltime school I choose to stay at home and have them as my priority. However, with rising food costs and petrol costs, very high water rates - £100pcm, council tax etc we are living on a shoestring and our incomings don't always match our outgoings which is hugely stressful. I started looking for work that would fit around the children and work one week per month month on call at nights. This pays a pittance and when we take into account the change in our child tax credits I basically work for £30 a month...I do this because I hope it will lead to some form of flexible work in a few years time.

The issue for us will be when I do return to work. I don't really want to set up a business but would like to return to my work in social services, but with no family locally the school holidays are almost unmanageable and if I did choose summer clubs then would cost a fortune. I would like to see the government do more to enable women like myself return to the workplace in these circumstances.

As for bonuses - they are obscene, always have been, always will be at the level they are paid. Is there not a link bet. high bonuses, property price increases inLondon and the resulting ripples in the whole property market. But with or without that the huge bonuses we have seen are just morally wrong and particularlry so at this time.

Yes, the recession is affecting us. The global recession means sales have dropped in my husband?s employer?s business and consequently we?re worried about his job. His overtime has already been cut. I?m trying to spend a lot less, despite the drop in our mortgage payments, which will have a knock on effect on other businesses and perpetuate the vicious circle.

I agree with Cammelia.

TAX US AS A FAMILY!

It?s good that there?s help out there for women who want to return to work or want to start up their own business. But I always wanted to stop at home with my kids and be a ?traditional? mum. I worked and waited until we could afford this and I feel that all the Government want to do is hammer me for it. Why can?t you stop making it so hard for mums who want to stop at home with their kids? (Apart from the obvious reason: Government avarice!) I worked before I had kids, I?ll work when they?re settled at school. I want to enjoy the very brief time I have with my kids while they?re pre-school and stop at home with them.

DH has a good income, and we?re lucky, but he works hard for it. He works 10 hour shifts in a dangerous and uncomfortable environment, 9 days out of every 10. I worked out that currently, as we get a good income from 1 earner, rather than an okay income evenly between 2 earners, we were paying almost £200 a month more in tax (even allowing for the NI) than a couple with the exactly the same income split equally between them. We don?t get any tax credit (and assume that?s why is so named: we pay all the tax and someone else gets the credit! ) How is it fair that a couple with no kids who both work can be £200 a month better off tax-wise than a family 1 earner and 2 kids?

Although I hate ?class? stuff, it?s a fact that this is penalising the working class! We live in the ?grim? North (and love it!) DH is a miner. I didn?t go to uni so I?m basically unqualified and there are no jobs round here that could pay me enough to allow our income to be split evenly. We?re still going to pay ?extra? tax when I do return to work. I don?t expect to pay less tax but why should we pay so much more? Now times are so tough I feel even more resentful of our tax burden. Especially as we?re going to be paying back the (probably necessary) bank bailouts for years, while fat cats get bonuses for causing the situation (their bonuses should be strictly performance related: if they earn it, pay ?em. If they lose it, penalise ?em!) and MPs continue to claim huge and dubious expenses!

Because of the tax, DH has had to take on a second job to make up for the extra tax we lose. As skintregular says, hard-working families with decent incomes are struggling and the government needs to be concerned by this.

the impact of the credit crunch for me is

• worries about partner employment,as recession affects the quality and quantity of work avilable to his firm.fee earning from new business decreasing and becoming more competitive.as firms who previously would not have undertake this work now also compete.it feels very precarious trying to maintain and generate steady work stream

_ advice information.not sure of what is available.not in receipt of any benefits or working tax credit

• globally govt could look at public sectors initiaves to increase public spending and generate investment/jobs.for example the PFI programme for schools and hospitals is behind schedule,govt could recruit workers to complete building schedule.generating jobs and productivity

• Bonuses?do you mean payment to city financial institutions?i find it abhorrent that one could be paid an incentive for gross mismanagement and risky strategies.also given that we the public are effectively underwriting these dysfunctional organisations no they should not be paid bonus. bonus is a reward for a job well done

• women starting businesses.if the woman has childcare needs perhaps assistance with childcare eg vouchers/assistance for CM or nursery.maybe mentoring or shadowing of a business person in similar role to gain experience or contacts. could govt departments/institutions offer work experience or shadowing if appropriate.

however i dont particularly favour special measures or positive discrimination. A good business idea and start up needs support whether it is a man or a woman

What can the government do?

1. Announce a complete stamp tax holiday and put an end those stupid packs you need to pay for before your home is put on the market. This will sort out all issues relating to the housing market and related industries.

1. Take steps to move away from full time working as the only real employment model that employers are interested in. Parents need flexibility in employment arrangements and for their to be viable options to work in part time hours at all levels of organisations. Pioneer this in the public sector.

1. Establish meaningful accountability in top jobs eg in banking. Do not allow obscene levels of bonuses to be paid when the company does badly, put an end to "golden goodbyes" when executives have done an apalling job and are paid hundreds of thousands of pounds to leave the company - shareholders should have to ratify such pay offs - it is their money after all. UK Banks with large amounts of public ownership need to be forced to act in the public interest.

1. Tax the super rich who pay little or no tax. Heavily. There is too big a gap between the richest 5% and the rest which has a very negative impact on society. Encourage the rich to show social responsibility and vilify rich people who choose not to.

End age discrimination in the workplace. The culture of worshipping youth is toxic and economically undesirable.

Glad the Govt is asking; hope they will indeed be listening...

Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?

I have no idea. I imagine the polls are reliable, but the interesting question is why? Women may be marginally (but only marginally) more likely to worry about the impact of redundancy on the whole family than men perhaps or more likely to have to allocate household resources but it seems a bit of a stretch to make a huge big deal over it.

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?

Not directly/not yet. We both work in the public sector (university) and while there is little direct threat of redundancy currently, it is very unclear what will happen if there is a huge cut in the budget, and what impact the recession will have on student numbers. Certainly the lack amount of spending on HE infrastructure will almost certainly fall and so the quality of the experience we can offer is likely to decline. But compared to what some are facing, perhaps this is less important.

On the other hand, the govt could engage in an expansion of public spending to create jobs and in the long term improve for example skills, retraining and education which should help get us out of the recession eventually. I would like to see investment in education at this time.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?
What do you want to see government doing to help with that?

I'm not sure I can answer either of these questions.

What do you think about bonuses?

I don't think I need to say anymore than has already been said. Oh no, I will anyway

You all know it is utterly immoral to allow the payment of billions of pounds in bonuses which could be used to support other small businesses going under or save people's houses or supplement the meagre income of the low paid.

Why you are even asking what we think on this, I don't know. There isn't a single valid reason (not even contractual ones) for it happening. Incentivization? They might all fuck off to Dubai? You think we'd miss them? I simply do not buy the 'trickle down' theory of wealth.

Train the unemployed to be city bankers. Jeez, whatever carping they like to give off, it isn't rocket science: it's gambling with a few sums. If the rich bastards all leave for places they can carry on earning squillons while destroying the lives of millions then there's an ideal opportunity for a massive job creation and training programme: devolve the City to the regions, train up Woolworth's workers, give a mother of 5 children the job of CEO with incentives for making the right decisions and insist on better regulation of the financial sector.

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?

See previous answer...

I've never understood why the Government wants to rush mums back to work, only for us to then pay someone else to look after our children! Surely it makes sense, if the mum wishes to, for mums to look after their own children (pre-school) and go back to work once they are at nursery/school age.

Obviously there are mums that want to go back to work asap, that's great too.

Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?
Yes, I do all the shopping, food, clothes, stuff for the house, book holidays - everything therefore I know exactly how much we are spending whereas my husband does not have a clue

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?
Yes my husband is trying to run his own business and its difficult. He is stressed and irritable and wont even consider us having another baby until we have got through the recession - how long is that going to be.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?
Havent asked for any help, just trying to be frugal and live within our means which to be honest we have always done.

What do you want to see government doing to help with that?
Get rid of HIPS, waive stamp duty for 12 months, force banks to pass on rate changes. Oh and while I've got your ear, sort out the child protection in this country, offer the 'benefits class' money to be sterilised and do the same for drug addicts, stop giving houses and benefits to girls under 25 to force girls to stop thinking having babies (and then neglecting them) is a career

What do you think about bonuses?
I think its disgusting, why should they get a bonus for working for a company that has failed and caused this mess.

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?
There is no incentive for anyone to set up a business in this country. Getting rid of corporation tax would be a start

Increase the amount those on benefits can earn before clawback kicks in. I pay a single mother on benefits to look after my child after school. I would love to employ her for more than one day, I would happily pay her more than I do already, but that's all she can earn without risking her benefits, which is a shame as it is her that allows me to stay in work and pay taxes.

"Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?"

Its probably because, maternity leave excepted, women know that they tend to be the ones most at risk of redundancy and less likely to be employed when in competition with men. Especially if they are of childbearing age. and women tend to be the ones who care for children in fractured families. Given only 1 third of absentee fathers support their children financially at the moment, the recession is only going to make things worse for them.

I think there's lots you could be doing to help the SELF EMPLOYED/VERY SMALL BUSINESS and their families.

1. Get the VAT threshold increased to at least £100,000.
2. Get the banks (in which you now own vast stakes) to go onto a flat fee charging system for businesses with a turnover of less than £100,000. And make that flat fee include interest/arrangement fees. And that includes the banks running Streamline and their awful charges (over £200 last month).
3. Decrease employers NI contributions for businesses employing less than three people. We've paid you thousands over the past year for the privilege of employing one person, needless to say, we've now made him redundant.
4. Work with the tax credits people to streamline things for us self-employed. At present, I'm receiving credits based on earnings in September 2006-August 2007 (tax return submitted in 2008). I was living in a different world then!
5. Have a small business adviser/book-keeper at every Job Centre Plus so that self-employment becomes a more viable prospect for more of the people now being made redundant. Plumbers, electricians, decorators could easily be running a small local business.

Harriet, please feel free to pass this on to the Minister for Small Business. Ask him to get back to me if y'all need a new Guru.

Can I add to my lengthier post that a small start-up grant of up to £5k will in the end help generate much more than that in taxes.

Thank you. I have said my piece.

Gordon Brown should definitely resign over his part in all of this

And, in amongst all the billions you are using to prop up the banks, can you not find a pool of money for each local authority to buy back ex-LA properties on the market for the first time thus increasing the housing stock available to LAs and enabling those people who did take advantage of the (falwed) Right to Buy legislation to move on (hence giving an injection to other industries - building, banking, estate agents, financial consultants, removal companies, tradesmen, shops).
Take Bert and Beryl who bought their 4 bedroomed house on the estate back in 1984. They don't wanna live there anymore (they fancy a 2 bed bungalow) but they can't find anyone to buy the house. But people in temp accom and the homeless would jump at it!

Izzywizzysmummy, I totally agree with you. Obviously, I don't have a financial overview of the system, but I've always assumed they want us back to earn money, pay them tax, and pay a child minder who also then pays tax: 2 tax payers to replace 0.

I can't vouch for this personally, but my friend told me that her daughter would have dearly loved to stop at home with her 6 month old baby but had to go back to work because, as a young couple with low paid jobs, they couldn't afford for her not to. At one point they were getting £700 (tax credit?) per month to pay for childcare. She was actually earning less than that. She couldn't understand why she was getting benefit to pay someone else much more to look after her baby than she would have needed to be able to afford to stay at home and look after her own baby. I just can't see the sense in that.

Meanwhile people like me and my husband get no assistance with childcare costs at all, and he can't even do salary sacrifice because he's self employed.

We don't earn that much (I actually earn 16,500 a year and am only bothering to work for my future career prospects). My husband pays huge amounts of tax, being a self employed proprietor of a small business. He is below the VAT threshold so pays VAT on everything but can't get it back. He is trying to expand and create employment for more people to pay you tax. Why can't we get some tax breaks?

Actually, I have a question about your first sentence, Ms Harman.

Why do you want to protect families. What about pensioners and single/childless people working and paying tax? They are suffering too, arguably more so.

Is the recession affecting family life and if so how?

DH is worried that he may lose his job, stress is impacting on our relationship with each other and there are more arguments as a result. I started my own business in September and it's tough going - people are cutting back quite rightly so small businesses and startups are having a tough time.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?

Not asked for any help as we have not needed it so far - we would have no idea who to ask if we needed help though.

What do you want to see the government doing to help with that?

Make it easier to know where to get help - adverts in the newspapers / a public information broadcast / more information online such as links on sites such as MN etc

What do you think about bonuses?

If they are earned they should be given - it's all very well to say it's a dreadful culture but if a business is in profit and targets have been exceeded and performance by particular individuals has been outstanding they should be rewarded for it - not execs who have presided over businesses that have had to be bailed out, or those who have not performed well. As someone else said - a bonus is not a right.

how can we help women who want to start their own businesses?

Not really sure on this one as if you want to do it you'll find some way of getting it going.

How is the recession affecting your family life?

I am seeking to get back into the workplace after a career break and am finding it virtually impossible as there just aren't the jobs out there. Part time/Flexible jobs are non existent. It is easier if you are in a job as the legislation forces employers to at least consider less traditional ways of working and employers know your worth so are more prepared to be flexible. I think there should be an incentive for employers to employ part time workers, maybe tax relief. I certainly don't believe they should be forced as this will just make it harder for women to find employment.

Fuel costs are crippling our family, dh spends almost a third of his income on petrol and he can't get a job closer to home because there aren't any. The tax that company car users pay is excessive, for most people a company car is a necessity not a luxury. Dh would not be able to use public transport because he carries surveying equipment around with him and travels to private residences.

I also think there should be some kind of allowance similar to the married person's allowance to take into account that dh is supporting a family. I have discovered that if we split up we would be considerably better off financially than we are now and I would be able to afford to return to education. There are times when I seriously consider ending my marriage and relying on state benefits.

How can we help women start their own business?

There is lots of advice and support out there as I have researched this. The difficulty is child care, I considered freelance work when my child was a small baby but I couldn't afford to pay a childminder because I wouldn't have had a regular income. Perhaps there could be a loan for child care given to people in this situation that is paid back once they have a regular income. Now child care is not an issue for me but the clients aren't out there because of the recession.

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how? The cost of gas and electricity has increased and so has the grocery bill. There is only so much money and things have to go. This has impacted on my household significantly. My ex partner is about to lose his job and that will impact on us because child support will decrease significantly and he has had to move into a tiny one bed flat which impacts on ds when he is there. He has been desperately trying to find a job for the last six months having seen this coming but there are fewer and fewer jobs out there. My privately rented home takes up 41% of my income (before council tax is added). It is the slightly below the average renting price for three bed properties in my area. There is no chance that I could ever get social housing or a mortgage so I do personally have an issue with the housing situationin this country.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help? Part of my work involves acting as an advocate to support families and I have found that in recent months councils and housing associations have been much more helpful in relation to dealing with rent arrears and council tax arrears.

Sadly, I am also finding in my work (and I realise this is not scientific) when relationships break up more and more people are having to remain under the same roof and this is putting more and more women and children in vulnerable situations & I probably should start a whole new thread on this subject.

What do you think about bonuses? I absolutely do not believe that the fat cats in the banks should be getting there usual bonuses as things currently stand.

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses? I would love to get some help to start my own business but it is very difficult to get started. I wonder if something similar to the enterprise allowance existed if that would help those without the resources to start up? (Although I have to admit I have no experience of the enterprise allowance myself).

I also think that childcare needs to be subsidised & the tax credit situation needs to be looked at again. Many couples are better off apart than together because of tax credits. Furthermore, as a single parent myself I am looking for a new job because it is time to move on and up careerwise and I need more money. I work 30 hours already. But I feel trapped by the tax credits system because I need to earn 5K + more in order to get off tax credits and make a noticable difference to our lives. (I don't think I've explained myself well here. I'll try to come back to it.)

We had a bad year for various reasons before the credit crunch really got underway and lost a considerable part of our income but we are now in real trouble. I have tried to go back to work but that is proving a real issue. When I tried to find out if I could afford to go back to work (i.e. how much would I have to earn to afford childcare) there was no one to help me. The Jobcentre only help people already on benefits and the Tax Credit people could only guess without real figures. DH then got a slightly better job and now I really can't afford to go back to work as I can't earn enough to cover childcare alone. But his new salary (which still doesn't cover all of our bills) means that I will probably lose almost all of my Tax Credits in April and I can't do anything to make that money up. When I tried to speak to citizens advice I found that they had locked their doors and stopped taking calls as they were so inundated so we have had no help there. I just feel so trapped that we are in that pocket of people who normally ask for no help and try really hard to make our own way in the world but when we are struggling we are in a catch 22 situation and can't even work our way out of it. We are close to bankruptcy, we can't even have IVAs as their is no income left after priority debts but the bonus is that they are unlikley to be able to take our house as it is in negative equity!! I guess the upshot of it is that childcare is too expensive when you have two pre-schoolers and benefits only take into account your income not your outgoings.

RE bonuses - If I had worked on the fronline of a bank last year I would probably feel I earned a bonus, however no way should anyone who made decisions which resulted in a financial loss get a bonus (otherwise its not a bonus is it?) You can't be rewarded for failure, just for negotiating a clever contract. In the company I worked in hardly anybody ever got a bonus as we never made targets (set too high).

Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?

IMO and IME men are equally worried. Perhaps opinion polls show this because women may be more willing to express their concern, or because it appears many women are responsible for the household finances so have a better understanding of the potential impact on the family.

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?

Yes. DH has his own business designing and selling kitchens. People are nervous of making big financial commitments just now, even with low interest rates on savings and the cut in VAT (which has made not one bit of difference) and so business is frighteningly quiet. We're not so worried about him not bringing home an income - for the time being - as I have a good job in the public sector (although I will shortly be going on mat leave) and we've always lived well within our means and saved & invested.

But when the business costs £3k a month just to stay in existence, how long do we prop it up with our hard-earned savings, how far into debt do we go before we write it off?

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?

Not asked for help - yet.

What do you want to see government doing to help with that?

With increasing numbers of people being made redundant, on lower pay or getting into debt to prop up small businesses the government could make it a hell of a lot easier to find out about rights, what help is available (eg benefits, grants), etc. How about a series of leaflets (what to do if you are made redundant, can't cope with debt, managing a small business etc) and making them available eg in bank branches, since we now have a stake in most of them.

What do you think about bonuses?

• no, not at bankers' bonuses (though they are sickening), but at the government! I bet the No10 press office is just loving this opportunity to divert attention away from the government's responsibility and shovel it onto the financial sector.

A normal economic cycle is industry makes goods, employees wages buy goods & services, creating need for industry/services/goods and so on. For years our economy has been pump primed by debt. It doesn't take a genius to work out there is only a finite amount of debt and that the tap was always going to be turned off at some point. I can work that out, and whatever people say about Gordon Brown, I'm quite sure he, HMT, FSA, an the whole bloody sector knew this a damn sight better than I ever did. But the government - like the bankers - are greedy and the taxes flowing into Treasury coffers apparently blinded them to what was going to happen.

It's the government who's chosen to maintain a non-interventionist policy and so it's the government who needs to take some of the blame for the mess we're in. Yes, some bankers are greedy, shouldn't be rewarded for taking excessive risk etc etc, but trying to divert our attention onto a few fat cats and a few £m of undeserved bonuses and away from the billions - even trillions - scale of the mess the global economy is in is, IMO, equally immoral.

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?

Not sure that women wanting to start their own business are any different from men in the same position.

If this question is directed at the childcare issue, then I believe the govt could do a lot more to make childcare more affordable. How about letting small businesses into the childcare voucher scheme, or even making childcare tax free full stop? Surely the net balance to the economy would be positive.

Waps experience of CAB is a big issue. I work with various agencies, have a ever increasing case load myself which means I haven't got the time I need to do all I need to do (this weekend I will be doing lieu time to catch up with paperwork) and every time I make a referal there are weeks and weeks of waiting before people get seen.