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A message from Harriet Harman - Minister for Women and Equality - how is the credit crunch/recession is affecting you and how do you think Government can help?

398 replies

JustineMumsnet · 11/02/2009 20:59

Harriet Harman writes:
We want to protect families from the credit crunch with real help. And we want to hear what Mumsnet are concerned about during this recession; what you want us to be doing about it; and what you want to see changed for the future. Prime Minister Gordon Brown is hosting an international Economic Summit in London (which President Obama will be coming to) in April to agree with other countries how we work together to get the global economy back on its feet and growing again. I want to hear from you and feed your views in to this summit.

Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?
Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?
Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?
What do you want to see government doing to help with that?
What do you think about bonuses?
How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?

OP posts:
BecauseImWorthIt · 11/02/2009 22:08

Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?

I doubt it very much. I think men, especially if they are responsible for bringing money into the home, will be really feeling it at the moment.

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?

Definitely. My husband works for RBS (although not in the banking division), so we have no idea what will happen to him. He doesn't get a bonus, like the fat cats, but does get profit share - although where he works is highly profitable it's unlikely that any of them will see anything that rewards the fruits of their long term efforts.

I have my own business as a market researcher. Market research can be one of the first things that companies cut. However, what is making this recession 'interesting' is that even companies who are doing well (and there are some!) are cutting their budgets, because they are fearful of what is to come in the next few months/years. So my business, always unpredictable, is even more so. We lost a job today because we were too expensive - and I can tell you that it was deliberately pitched low, so no idea how low the company that won it went.

The worst thing about it all is the fear. As yet, we haven't been directly affected - my husband is still in a job, and we're still being commissioned (fingers crossed). But we can't plan anything. We need a new car, but have shelved that until I don't know when. Because the car needs replacing, our bill for a 'regular' service yesterday was over £700. We daren't plan a holiday because we don't know if will be able to afford it. My children (at state schools) have private music lessons, and we don't know if we can afford these in the longer term - and they are both passionate about music so losing this would be felt very sorely.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?

Don't know what would be available - haven't had to ask yet.

What do you want to see government doing to help with that?

I would like to see the government putting pressure (somehow) on the media to stop focusing on the bad news. Sometimes it feels like they are gloating about it and circling like vultures over businesses that are suffering. Good news is reported almost grudgingly, or 'hidden' amongst other doom-laden stuff.

What do you think about bonuses?

I think this needs to be clarified. Bonuses that reward short term gains as opposed to longer term achievements are totally wrong. The whole 'greed is good' mentality of the city needs to be culled. But I think that the rest of us mere mortals do need to be rewarded for commitment, effort and achievement.

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?

Why only women? Why not encourage men to do this as well? Or are we women going to end up in the ghettos of catalogues, envelope stuffers and 'soft' work that fits around our children?

Tinker · 11/02/2009 22:08

"Today we decided to sell all our shares (roughly 50K's worth) as we don't feel they are a good investment and are concerned about a really bad stock market crash.

In my opinion calling a National Day of Prayer would be helpful. This crisis is a timely wake-up call for everyone - individuals, companies, the government, banks etc - to examine our attitudes to money, greed and materialism, and the lack of Christian values in our decision-making.

It's time to decide whether to serve God or money."

Interesting juxtaposition

comparethePeachydotcom · 11/02/2009 22:09

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how? Dh has had a pay freeze with frewuent work reviews to see if redundancies necessary: as I'm a carer and can't work then yes we're worried. I'd love to contribute butb of course it's hard to find work now, and with incentives for those employing people on benefits people who are 'just' caring for disabled family members are at the bottom of the pile again.
I can see the value of my recent degree evaporating rapidly.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help? No advice will change anything.

What do you want to see government doing to help with that? recognise that when pay is freezing and dropping, carers allowance is insufficient; something (heck anythintg) to help carers find part time work that fits around their caring.

What do you think about bonuses? Vey poor form: morale destroying.

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses? Advise them to wait a year, i'd think.

newgirl · 11/02/2009 22:10

i liked the praying line too

my other suggestion is that unemployed bankers do community work to raise their moral and get them outside - happy for the government to pay them for that

retrain as childcare/sports teachers/summer camp leaders/language teachers - give them back a sense of purpose that benefits the whole country

preggersplayspop · 11/02/2009 22:10

Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?

I have not noticed this to be the case.

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?

Yes, in that we consider both of our jobs to be potentially risky with regards to redundancy. No, in that we have always been savers rather than spenders and believe we have enough put by to weather the storm for a while anyway.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?

Not sure we need advice or information as such. We both keep up to date with events through the media.

What do you want to see government doing to help with that?

Should be more support for people out of work to help them retrain or get back into work as quickly as possible. Should be as much help as possible for people who are struggling with mortgages because the banks were prepared to offer them willy nilly.

What do you think about bonuses?

I think they have their place to incentivise people but should be structured based on objective, measureable performance. People should not 'expect' bonuses and there should not be the opportunity to bend the rules to suit the individual. They should be commensurate with the work output and should not reward excessive risk taking and short term decisions. I can't see how anyone justifies million pound bonuses for doing a few derivatives trades. They should be a % of the salary, not a multiple of the base salary. The government needs to respond to the fact that there is a lot of bad will at present in relation to bankers bonuses and should be taking a tough stance on this.

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?

Provide advice and mentoring services. Provide cheaper access to childcare.

shonaspurtle · 11/02/2009 22:12

Oh yes, and make the Child Care Voucher scheme compulsory - dh's company won't introduce it and it makes me really angry that this is a benefit we are denied because they can't be bothered.

trixymalixy · 11/02/2009 22:19

Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?

  • No my DH is equally as worried as I am. I would say my friend's Dhs are more worried than they are as they are the main earners and potentially at risk ofredundancy or seeing busines dry up.

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?

  • I am being made redundant and I am also pregnant so we are trying to get all our debts cleared ASAP to reduce our monthly outgoings so we can hopefully survive on one salary.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?

  • Haven't asked for any advice so far
What do you want to see government doing to help with that?

Childcare, childcare, childcare again!!

I would like to see the ludicrous 15 hours a week childcare scheme to be changed to something that is actually of use to working parents. God knows what idiot came up with it.

Why not just give 2 full days at nursery free? That allows parents to actually do two full days work as the current scheme doesn't allow that.

Increase the childcare voucher allowance so that all childcare can be paid from tax free salary.

I agree with Milliways

"I, and others on here, have all been stuck in the "you don't qualify for anything except £60pw JSA until next April". If you are made redundant/unemployed in March, you can claim in April, but DH lost his job part way through the year - between us we earned over the threshold for benefits this year (as I am still woking 28hpw) but our outgoings are based on 2 incomes and savings don't last very long. We cannot claim Council Tax benefit as I work (never mind how low my salary is) or EMA for the children as also based on last years wages. As a mortgage payer we get no help with that."

What do you think about bonuses?

-They should be capped.City bonuses have got completely out of control.

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?

-Don't know.

purits · 11/02/2009 22:27

I know that I am very lucky to have paid off the mortgage and have savings, but I am getting peeved off that all the help (eg low interest rates) is going to feckless over-borrowers. I am not being rewarded for my prudence (remember prudence, it used to be Gordy's favourite word). What incentive have I got to save for a pension - I might as well spend the money now on fripperies and claim 'hardship' money off the State when the time comes.

"What do you think about bonuses?"
Erm, shouldn't you have thought of this before you pumped the money into the banks? Car manufacturers etc have renegotiated paydeals (take a paycut or lose your job) - why was it beyond the wit of Government to do the same? Typical Labour: act first, think later.

Quattrocento · 11/02/2009 22:40

Will Harriet be pressing for better regulation in the financial services industry? Because prevention is better than cure ...

tealady · 11/02/2009 22:43

Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?

I would say we are both equally concerned.

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?

So far it has resulted in a reduction in earnings by approx 10% as my dh works for an investment bank and has had almost no bonus this year. Our expenses meanwhile continue to increase and savings/investments are being eroded by market conditions. We also feel nervous for the future and very concerned about job security.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?

No advice needed, just a return to stability!

What do you want to see government doing to help with that?

I dont want to see tax payers money spent on schemes to bail out failing companies!

What do you think about bonuses?

Excessive high bonuses are probably not a good idea but remember for many ordinary city workers the bonuses are not excessive and are really performance related pay much the same as a salesman's commission. I think this is generally a red herring and just distracts us from the real issue of how the financial markets have been regulated/should be regulated.

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?

Personally I think there is too much emphasis on childcare provision and too little on flexible working arrangements. I am a SAHM to school age children. It is not fincially viable for me to return to work and I do not want my children in child care. I would like to see more jobs available which are part time, term time with reasonable pay. Most women that return to work have to compromise and get good money or good hours. Few get both. In our household the compromise is that my dh works in a high pressure envrironment so that one of us can be there for the kids.

herbietea · 11/02/2009 22:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Jux · 11/02/2009 22:54

DH is a musician and is paid per gig. Fewer gigs means less money. We can eat at the moment but not sure how long that will go on. You could of course say it's his own fault for not being Mick Jagger or, at any rate, just as successful, but hey, he makes a lot of people happier at least for the time they're listening to him.

Small businesses, self-employed, sole traders, low earners would all benefit from some of those billions which are about to go to wbankers in bonuses.

Speaking of which - I like the suggestion in The Times letters page today (yesterday?); by all means pay them but tax them at 99%.

Remove all senior finance people and replace them with people who are risk averse - come on, we've spent years in this society ensuring there are people so risk averse that they tag their children. Or use Health and Safety Inspectors in the finance sector.

Financial bods need to be responsible and sensible, not coke-fuelled twats who gamble with anything they can get their hands on and when they can't find enough of the old gambles, make a few new ones up.

A change of government sounds like a good idea too.

WomanInAnAttic · 11/02/2009 22:56

Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?
No. I think women are just more inclined to talk about it. Which is good.

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?
Yes. And I apologise to anyone who hasn't got any savings.

  1. Our savings in equities have been badly hit both within and without ISA wrappers. I understand about the nature of risk associated with equities and have no gripe about shares held outside ISA wrappers. But I feel cross that stocks and shares ISAs are not protected by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme when they are government incentivised schemes to encourage people to save. I had substantial savings in Bradford & Bingley shares and these ISAs are now completely worthless. How come CASH ISAs are compensated but S&S ISAs are not? Especically odd given that under government rules you are not allowed to invest in high risk shares (from the AIM for example) and you are not allowed to invest in both a cash ISA and a S&S ISA in any given year which would suggest they are equivalent.
  2. Our cash savings now earn ridiculous interest.
  3. Our pensions are worth approx 30% less than they were pre-Northern Rock.
  4. We have £30,000 per annum school fees to meet. The money was neatly placed in ISAs but it no longer exists.
  5. My partner's job is ending next month. We are a bit worried and we were very careful plan plan plan people.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?
We don't really need help.

What do you want to see government doing to help with that?
I'd like to see the public purse slimmed down substantially.

What do you think about bonuses?
Presumably you mean for bankers? Labour are really milking the story that this whole mess is the fault of a few bankers. But it is much more complex than that isn't it? It is the fault of regulation, worldwide regulation at that and the fact that the ratings agencies are not regulated. Barclays made £6.1 Billion profit, even after an £8 Billion debt write down. They are not going to pay bonuses but if they did I don't see why it would be any business of the government - it is a matter for Barclays who have not taken government wonga and their shareholders.

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?
Yes please. Someone mentioned earlier that it would be good if business start up advice was available online. Perhaps Mumsnet could have a dedicated small business adviser provided by the government. That would be really progressive and helpful.

Sorry to rant. I know you do an awful lot of good work. But I have worked very hard, planned very carefully and been terribly sensible financially. Now I wish I had eaten at more Michelin starred restaurants and bought more pairs of brilliant shoes instead of being so freakin sensible.

Jux · 11/02/2009 22:57

Oh and MPs could stop cashing in on loopholes in their own regulations and set a good example to the rest of us (hear that Ms Smith?). That's yer basic prob, Harriet ole gel. If you lot do it, why shouldn't anyone else if they can?

WomanInAnAttic · 11/02/2009 23:04

Yes, what Jux said. The Labour government keep introducing more and more complex anti avoidance tax legislation. How about introducing a presumption of best value for the taxpayer on MP expenses?

MegBusset · 11/02/2009 23:04

Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?
No, DH and I are just as worried. If anything, he is more worried as the sole breadwinner at the moment -- with falling income, he is really feeling the pressure.

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?
Yes. I was made redundant last year. DH is a freelancer and his income has been falling for some time. We have made cuts where possible eg shopping at Lidl but it now looks like DH will have to take a full-time job at a lower salary, so even more cuts will have to be made. God knows where! Also, we had planned to move house this year but no houses are selling round here so we are stuck in a too-small house with another baby in the way.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?
I'm not sure where I would ask for help, to be honest. I can't see the Job Centre being much use.

What do you want to see government doing to help with that?
First of all sort out the mess that is the tax credits system. DH and I can;t make head nor tail of what we should be due (we are currently paying back because we were overpaid, except they calculated that we were overpaid based on when we still had two incomes, two years ago! So I think they should probably be paying us something, but feck knows what.)

What do you think about bonuses?
I think it is absolutely obscene that any bank that has been bailed out by public money should be paying bonuses to any of its staff.

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?
Decent subsidised childcare, and sort out the tax credits!

herbietea · 11/02/2009 23:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Eve · 11/02/2009 23:14

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?

..........yes, my savings are being hammered. I have never had any debt apart from mortgage, which is on a fixed rate so I can't take advantage of cuts. I am very careful and prudent and save hard, and yet I am being punished by losing interest on my savings and poor ISA performance.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?

...none.. advice only seems to apply for those in debt!

What do you want to see government doing to help with that?

..stop encouraging spending!! why is our economy built on frivilious high street spending!

What do you think about bonuses?

...useful in the right place with the right rewards..

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?

childcare, tax.. small business red tape - lose it!!

DaddyJ · 11/02/2009 23:17

May I contribute? The missus has given the nod to what follows.

Bailing out the banks has meant that we are now sitting at the global poker table

  • and unfortunately we will have to play by the existing rules otherwise we will lose BIG.

They might be bastard bankers. But they are now our bastard bankers.
Let them have their bonuses.

However, if it weren't for trillion Dollar/Pound/Euro/Yen guarantees by G7 governments
nobody would be playing any poker which means...
that we now have the power to change the rules. At last.

Harriet, after nearly two decades of the global corporate elite running rings
around nation states and effectively disenfranchising all of us
we are now in a position where suddenly national governments call the shots again!

You have a truly golden opportunity here.

At the G20 in April Brown, Obama, Sarkozy, Merkel/Steinbrück etc can make history
by finally creating a GLOBAL regulatory framework for the finance industry
which has to include an end to the shameful global tax evasion racket.

Now go save the world!

As for the other questions: we are alright, thanks for asking.
Hope all well with you and yours

Eve · 11/02/2009 23:19

phew....posted and then read other messages.

Glad I am not the only saver who is annoyed.

TantieTowie · 11/02/2009 23:26

The much-talked about green new deal would be a great thing.

Childcare - I'm self-employed - why can't I write it off against tax? It's my biggest business expense - and I couldn't work without it.

Jux · 11/02/2009 23:27

Actually, DaddyJ, I'd rather like them to be somebody else's bastard bankers. Ban the bonuses and let them vote with their feet. We're better off without them.

DaddyJ · 11/02/2009 23:45

Jux, I share your anger and I have got the posts to prove it!

But..I don't like cutting off my nose to spite my face.

We have committed billions of Pounds to these banks
and indeed to the banking system as a whole.
It would be financially suicidal of us to now lose our nerve and treat our investment with reckless contempt.

We must stay cool and play the long game.

You and I and everyone else, we are absolutely justified in being completely furious.
Let's turn our hot anger into icy determination to achieve real change.

Heated · 11/02/2009 23:50

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?

We're living spartan lives, concerned about the big hikes in food, council tax & fuel. As key workers who can?t afford to live near our place of work, we have to commute which has become costly. We don?t eat out, drink, smoke or have sky, clothes only get replaced if they get worn out and we meal plan to try and eat nutritiously but cheaply. If the govt wants us to spend the country out of recession, then I?d like to see the following:
a) energise the housing market:get rid of the artificial ceiling by removing the stamp duty hike at 250k (flat 1% instead) and the dreadful HIPs
b) energise the car industry/save jobs: offer new-for-old-car subsidy
c) more flexibility with child-care vouchers. I?m pleased the govt introduced them but you limit the kind of work mothers are able to seek if they can only be used for 5 HALF sessions

Heated · 11/02/2009 23:58

Btw, I don't want bloody awful Sky!!

It was just an example to illustrate that we really don't have any useless fripperies in our life, but have properly retrenched in the Jane Austen sense of the word!

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